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	<title>Comments on: The forced pregnancy brigade targets rape and incest survivors and women with health complications in Colombia</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 22 Mar 2010 03:44:02 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Feministe &#187; Abortion: The More Dangerous, The Better</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-108254</link>
		<dc:creator>Feministe &#187; Abortion: The More Dangerous, The Better</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 05 Jun 2007 00:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-108254</guid>
		<description>[...] any more abhorrent &#8212; after the clinic bombings, the doctor shootings, the attempt at  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] any more abhorrent &#8212; after the clinic bombings, the doctor shootings, the attempt at  [...]</p>
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		<title>By: PrincessVespa</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107896</link>
		<dc:creator>PrincessVespa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 03 Jun 2007 04:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107896</guid>
		<description>I&#039;ve never commented before, but I had to for this post.  I&#039;m a regular reader &lt;em&gt;mainly because of&lt;/em&gt; the frequent, wonderful, thoughtful posts on abortion rights.  No disrespect to other topics but, to be honest, I get a little bummed when a few days go by with no posts about abortion.

This blog helps to keep me updated and motivated and reminds me that, no matter how far it looks like we&#039;ve come, there is still fighting to do, still work to be done.

So, keep it up, we need you!  :)

  </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve never commented before, but I had to for this post.  I&#8217;m a regular reader <em>mainly because of</em> the frequent, wonderful, thoughtful posts on abortion rights.  No disrespect to other topics but, to be honest, I get a little bummed when a few days go by with no posts about abortion.</p>
<p>This blog helps to keep me updated and motivated and reminds me that, no matter how far it looks like we&#8217;ve come, there is still fighting to do, still work to be done.</p>
<p>So, keep it up, we need you!  :)</p>
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		<title>By: i78</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107869</link>
		<dc:creator>i78</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Jun 2007 21:41:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107869</guid>
		<description>1)	The attacks on Mother Theresa show how amazingly insane (and yes, anti-Catholic) a lot of you radicals are. You say pro-lifers just want to control women, but as long as we’re doing mindreading, I sense just as much of a deep-seated, knee-jerk hatred of Catholicism driving your opposition to whatever they say. One thing to oppose their positions, another thing to slander Mother Theresa!

2)	“Silly Anysia, men don’t have to take responsibility for anything!”

Completely false. In America, let’s say, if a man impregnates a woman and she keeps the baby, he is legally required to pay child support. Sure, that’s not equal to carrying a baby, but it is “responsibility for anything&quot; and is triggered just by a man having sex. That comment is ludicrous.

3)	Commentator Ann, supported by some others, points out that there is a consistency in not allowing an exception for rape and incest. If you think abortion is murder, it’s not clear at all that we should let rape victims commit murder because they were raped and because the murder would help them (I’d bring up the example of the absurdity in allowing a man or woman to kill his/her acquitted/released rapist or witness as a vigilante, but given this crowd, you’d probably miss the absurdity.) 
       But if Ann is right, and the exception makes not all that much sense, then why the post about the rape/incest victim? Obviously Jill’s exploiting a possibly irrational desire for a rape/incest exception so she can bootstrap up and justify the 99% of abortions that don’t involve those situations. So, Ann and other feminists attacking pro-lifers who, for many reasons, might prefer a rape/incest exception, actually contradict the posters like Jill who are aghast—aghast!—when other pro-lifers would simply combine Ann’s logic with their position that abortion is murder. Wait, am I accusing feminists of using abusive, contradictory logic?—oops I should probably move to point #4 rather than state the obvious.

4)	A fetus in a womb differs very much from a person on life support. 1) People who get the plug pulled on life support have little or no chance of ever becoming healthy or independent from life support. Not so with many fetuses. 2) Life support involves foreign machinery, not human processes, some of which happen automatically in response to the pregnancy. 3) A dying person, to be saved, is put on life support. Withdrawing the life support simply fails to save her, perhaps because of its insane expense and inability to improve her condition. Not so with a fetus, who has to be removed from the womb and either drugged or dismembered. If a fetus is alive and medically cared for where it is, and has a reasonably bright medical prognosis, as is often the case, aborting it is not the same as just disconnecting a machine on a terminal patient.

5) I forgot that opposing murder triggered a positive obligation to provide complete and total support everyone who hasn&#039;t been murdered. Thought that was a family/guardian obligation.

6) Comparing the abortion rate of South American countries to rich Canada&#039;s is not exactly a sound comparison. Not so much lurking variables as right-in-your-face variables.
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1)	The attacks on Mother Theresa show how amazingly insane (and yes, anti-Catholic) a lot of you radicals are. You say pro-lifers just want to control women, but as long as we’re doing mindreading, I sense just as much of a deep-seated, knee-jerk hatred of Catholicism driving your opposition to whatever they say. One thing to oppose their positions, another thing to slander Mother Theresa!</p>
<p>2)	“Silly Anysia, men don’t have to take responsibility for anything!”</p>
<p>Completely false. In America, let’s say, if a man impregnates a woman and she keeps the baby, he is legally required to pay child support. Sure, that’s not equal to carrying a baby, but it is “responsibility for anything&#8221; and is triggered just by a man having sex. That comment is ludicrous.</p>
<p>3)	Commentator Ann, supported by some others, points out that there is a consistency in not allowing an exception for rape and incest. If you think abortion is murder, it’s not clear at all that we should let rape victims commit murder because they were raped and because the murder would help them (I’d bring up the example of the absurdity in allowing a man or woman to kill his/her acquitted/released rapist or witness as a vigilante, but given this crowd, you’d probably miss the absurdity.)<br />
       But if Ann is right, and the exception makes not all that much sense, then why the post about the rape/incest victim? Obviously Jill’s exploiting a possibly irrational desire for a rape/incest exception so she can bootstrap up and justify the 99% of abortions that don’t involve those situations. So, Ann and other feminists attacking pro-lifers who, for many reasons, might prefer a rape/incest exception, actually contradict the posters like Jill who are aghast—aghast!—when other pro-lifers would simply combine Ann’s logic with their position that abortion is murder. Wait, am I accusing feminists of using abusive, contradictory logic?—oops I should probably move to point #4 rather than state the obvious.</p>
<p>4)	A fetus in a womb differs very much from a person on life support. 1) People who get the plug pulled on life support have little or no chance of ever becoming healthy or independent from life support. Not so with many fetuses. 2) Life support involves foreign machinery, not human processes, some of which happen automatically in response to the pregnancy. 3) A dying person, to be saved, is put on life support. Withdrawing the life support simply fails to save her, perhaps because of its insane expense and inability to improve her condition. Not so with a fetus, who has to be removed from the womb and either drugged or dismembered. If a fetus is alive and medically cared for where it is, and has a reasonably bright medical prognosis, as is often the case, aborting it is not the same as just disconnecting a machine on a terminal patient.</p>
<p>5) I forgot that opposing murder triggered a positive obligation to provide complete and total support everyone who hasn&#8217;t been murdered. Thought that was a family/guardian obligation.</p>
<p>6) Comparing the abortion rate of South American countries to rich Canada&#8217;s is not exactly a sound comparison. Not so much lurking variables as right-in-your-face variables.</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107787</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 16:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107787</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Slightly off-topic, but I highly recommend “Deliver Us from Evil,” Amy Berg’s documentary about the way the Catholic church handled one particular priest who is thought to have molested over a hundred children (they pretty much just moved him around a lot)&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Seconded on that recommendation. </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Slightly off-topic, but I highly recommend “Deliver Us from Evil,” Amy Berg’s documentary about the way the Catholic church handled one particular priest who is thought to have molested over a hundred children (they pretty much just moved him around a lot)</p></blockquote>
<p>Seconded on that recommendation.</p>
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		<title>By: jeffliveshere</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107785</link>
		<dc:creator>jeffliveshere</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 15:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107785</guid>
		<description>Slightly off-topic, but I highly recommend &quot;Deliver Us from Evil,&quot; Amy Berg&#039;s documentary about the way the Catholic church handled one particular priest who is thought to have molested over a hundred children (they pretty much just moved him around a lot)--and you get to see that Ratz played a key role in church coverups of priests molesting kids right up until the moment he became pope. Any Catholic who isn&#039;t spending time fighting for some justice around these issues will likely be smacked around by Jesus himself at the pearly gates, in my opinion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Slightly off-topic, but I highly recommend &#8220;Deliver Us from Evil,&#8221; Amy Berg&#8217;s documentary about the way the Catholic church handled one particular priest who is thought to have molested over a hundred children (they pretty much just moved him around a lot)&#8211;and you get to see that Ratz played a key role in church coverups of priests molesting kids right up until the moment he became pope. Any Catholic who isn&#8217;t spending time fighting for some justice around these issues will likely be smacked around by Jesus himself at the pearly gates, in my opinion.</p>
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		<title>By: Moira</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107710</link>
		<dc:creator>Moira</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 03:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107710</guid>
		<description>You&#039;re most welcome.  Mother Teresa&#039;s image has been lovingly polished -- I felt pretty much the same as you did until someone pointed out to me what she was actually up to.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re most welcome.  Mother Teresa&#8217;s image has been lovingly polished &#8212; I felt pretty much the same as you did until someone pointed out to me what she was actually up to.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107695</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:29:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107695</guid>
		<description>Moira-
Thank you for the information. I was not aware that Mother Teresa had such a high regard for deprivation. I bought into what I believed was her decision to see the best in the impoverished.
I admire forgoing your personal comfort in favor of growth, but I cannot admire the worship of suffering. It is indeed just a barb on a blog.
Anyways, I will quit derailing the thread now.

 
</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Moira-<br />
Thank you for the information. I was not aware that Mother Teresa had such a high regard for deprivation. I bought into what I believed was her decision to see the best in the impoverished.<br />
I admire forgoing your personal comfort in favor of growth, but I cannot admire the worship of suffering. It is indeed just a barb on a blog.<br />
Anyways, I will quit derailing the thread now.</p>
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		<title>By: Jasmine</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107689</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasmine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 02:01:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107689</guid>
		<description>The Church pushes around pregnant women (and pregnant children) endlessly, but when confronted or criticized, whimpers about religious bigotry.&lt;blockquote&gt;

That is exactly what happened with the bloggers, Amanda and Melissa on the Edwards campaign.  They call it like it is and the church cries bigotry.  Well boo fuckin&#039; hoo I say.
Thank god my parents don&#039;t care that I&#039;m not having a Catholic wedding.  &lt;/blockquote&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Church pushes around pregnant women (and pregnant children) endlessly, but when confronted or criticized, whimpers about religious bigotry.<br />
<blockquote>
<p>That is exactly what happened with the bloggers, Amanda and Melissa on the Edwards campaign.  They call it like it is and the church cries bigotry.  Well boo fuckin&#8217; hoo I say.<br />
Thank god my parents don&#8217;t care that I&#8217;m not having a Catholic wedding.  </p></blockquote>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107663</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 00:43:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107663</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;These are ridiculously harsh penalties for females who get abortions. Where are the harsh penalties for the males that got them in that condition? The rapist, or incestuous father goes to ‘confession’ and all is well?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Silly Anysia, men don&#039;t have to take responsibility for anything! </description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>These are ridiculously harsh penalties for females who get abortions. Where are the harsh penalties for the males that got them in that condition? The rapist, or incestuous father goes to ‘confession’ and all is well?</p></blockquote>
<p>Silly Anysia, men don&#8217;t have to take responsibility for anything!</p>
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		<title>By: Bitter Scribe</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107661</link>
		<dc:creator>Bitter Scribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Jun 2007 00:31:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/05/30/the-forced-pregnancy-brigade-targets-rape-and-incest-survivors-and-women-with-health-complications-in-colombia/#comment-107661</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The “R&amp;I” exception makes no sense.

&lt;/blockquote&gt;Sure it does, from a political point of view. It makes abortion bans more palatable to the mainstream.

If you&#039;re looking for &lt;i&gt;logical &lt;/i&gt;sense from these folks, my dear, you&#039;re going to wait a long, long time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The “R&amp;I” exception makes no sense.</p>
</blockquote>
<p>Sure it does, from a political point of view. It makes abortion bans more palatable to the mainstream.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re looking for <i>logical </i>sense from these folks, my dear, you&#8217;re going to wait a long, long time.</p>
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