Even dictatorships have elections these days. Phony, rigged elections, usually — but theoretical elections in which women can theoretically vote.

The Saudi government is definitely, without doubt, the most regressive and backwards in the entire world. They are so much more bigoted than their neighbors, and have been criticized sufficiently from their neighbors, that harsher Western criticism for the more extreme practices, the ones which differ from Jordan, Yemen, Dubai, Syria, etc., would probably actually help. (In contrast to other countries where harsher Western criticism of sexist practices does not help: Egypt, Algeria, Iran, etc.)

Of course, instead we have Western leaders cozying up to one of the most despicable monarchies in the world. It’s the oil, of course.

Their job, or I should say their way of “deconstructing” the issue, is to work from hadith (sayings of the Prophet), the Qur’an (word of God) and form a narrative that is more inclusive of the female viewpoint. They also seek to turn things that western feminists may view as oppressive (like the veil) into something more distinctive and reflective of their character. So that’s why you see Dr. Wadud wearing very colorful and vibrant hijab’s.

But they must walk a fine line because within Islam a lot of feminism is regarded as Bid’ah (innovation), and innovation is considered har’aam (forbidden). Only the words and ideas of the Prophet can really be used to construct Islamically-sound arguments. That doesn’t mean there isn’t anything new, just that you have to get really creative. Just because there wasn’t concrete at the time of the Prophet, doesn’t mean you can’t build a mosque with one today, but on the other hand, you can’t simply replace key features of the mosque, like the qibla (which points to Mecca) because that would be innovation.

Thus, you can see that the sort of discussion you’d need to have with an Islamic feminist would be quite different from other women. Reading a western feminist book, it approaches things from a Civil Rights perspective, working backwords from the point of equality towards public policy. But in Islam, you have try to find ways to negotiate two, at times contradictory, traditions and still preserve the “essence” of Islam, which is submission before God.

So, reading Ms. Stack’s article, I think she does an excellent job illuminating this topic, but it’s really a different discussion if you were to have it with serious Islamic scholars. Dr. Wadud would probably discuss the idea that Islam originally drastically improved the rights of women, for example banning female infanticide within the Empire.

But she still fights things like hadith, which say that the Prophet Mohammad visited Hell and found mostly women. Of course, she doesn’t believe the Prophet said that, but it’s in the tradition. So how to question that hadith, without questioning ALL HADITH and therefore large parts of the Sunnah (the tradition), is tough. REALLY tough.

Hope that helps.

What I mean by that, for example, is if you follow feminists in Egypt you see that they often support the Muslim Brotherhood. NOT because they support Salafism, or rule by clerics (which understandly would have a more narrow vision of women’s rights than desirable, to put it diplomatically), but because the oppression of President Mubarak impacts them in greater proportion than some of their other issues.

They can’t even speak up about the status of women’s rights, or the status of women in Islam, because they often will end up in jail. Therefore, their top priority is the removal of the current dictatorship, which for the time being means allying themselves with Islamist groups. Historically, that’s a mistake if the Ayatollah Khomeini and the fall of the Shah in Iran is any indication.

But my point is (and I do love to ramble) is that the issue of women’s rights in the Middle East is pretty complicated, particularly when feminists try to look at it in symmetry with western feminism. What we think of as basic women’s rights, a lot of people in the Middle East regard as a cultural viewpoint, and thus challenging their culture is a form of imperialism.

To bypass that, it’s important to look to women from the region to make their own statements and lead on these issues, and basically support them. That’s a pretty weak model to follow, and there can be only limited NGO and international support, but the alternative will never be viewed as legitimate (outside cultural imperialism).

Human Being, you say many people are uncomfortable with mixing genders because it questions the core traditions of Islam. I fail to see why questioning religious and cultural customs is a bad thing. If you could question them and realize you agree with the reasoning behind them, wouldn’t that make anyone’s faith stronger? Then why the reluctance on their part? (I’m not being a troll, I just want to know if there’s something specifically about Islam that discourages that.)

As P.J. O’Rourke put it (I’m writing from memory so I might not be quoting exactly, so I’ll apologize for any misquotes now) in his description of the place back in the days of the first Iraq war:

Wahabis are like strict Baptists: no drinking, no dancing [...] The religious beliefs of Saudi Arabians are no more exotic than those of Billy Graham [their] mores are no different than those of a small town American from about 50 years ago — only the absolute segregation of the sexes would seem bizarre. And I’m not so sure about that. After O’Rourke Thanksgiving dinners, the women would go into the kitchen to wash dishes while the men would sit in front of the TV and watch bowl games.

It always amazes me how our fundies see Muslim fundies as being so “exotic” when their really ain’t much difference in their mores. I wonder what the late, great Edward Said would have to say about that … hmmmm ….

Is it true that Saudi Arabia is the only country today (besides dictatorships where nobody votes) where women do not vote?

Voting in Saudi Arabia is to voting in other countries as fantasy football is to football. But, yeah, I think so — Kuwait just changed recently.

– ACS

I remember the government spokesman, Mansour Turki, who said to me: “Being a Saudi doesn’t mean you see every face of Saudi society. Saudi men don’t understand how Saudi women think. They have no idea, actually. Even my own family, my own mother or sister, she won’t talk to me honestly.”

If you want to feel like your wife/mother/sister understands you and confides in you, maybe you should start agitating for a society where they are at least treated as though they belong to the human race. Is it any wonder if the women are closed-off to men and outsiders and their only community is with each other behind closed doors?

God, I would be arrested or killed in that country. I would never be able to take it, not even for a few hours.

Oh and if any male ‘friend’ of mine were as dismissive of my being abused as Smith’s was when the bank security harassed her, I would no longer consider him a friend.

“The men can SEE!”

The men can see what, exactly? A figure draped entirely in black fabric with indeterminate features? Did the wind blow against her and perhaps reveal the shape of some limbs? The horror.