Maggie Gyllenhaal Does Not Give a Flying Fuck What You Think.
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I love that. And that looks like an ouch moment.
yay!
Her son’s attachment technique needs a little improving though – yowch.
And nor should she!
That makes me really fucking happy. I loved you before, Maggie. Now I love you even more.
rock on!
Why do you get so elated about a picture of a woman breastfeeding? This happens every day. I’m missing something here, but I’m not sure what it is…
Good for her, but I’m not so sure she’s good with this picture being posted all over the internet – which you more or less contribute to with including it in this post. It’s not a stretch to assume that this is a papparazzi photo and I think it is unfortunate to support them whether the photo is “stolen” or licenced.
Someone needs to work on his/her latching technique. Ouch!
How about you produce another photo of a famous woman breastfeeding in public? Go ahead, we’ll wait.
(That’s what you’re missing. No, it certainly doesn’t happen every day.)
I was just going to say that, Therese, but you beat me to it. It’d be kind of bleakly amusing if someone came up and berated her, not for public breast feeding, but for poor attachment!
Maybe the kid’s had enough and is fooling around and pulling off. Or maybe poor attatchment, but I’d not be smiling, I’d be screaming and cursing.
This vibrates for me between “Hey, Movie Star Tit” and “Oh that’s so great she’s breastfeeding”. It bugs me that even for me, (breastfeeding mum, little conscious interest in celebrities) I have some of the first reaction. I’m pissed that this can read at all as pornification. Why does it?
OK, I’ll admit that I’d had to Google her to see who she was. My question, however, still stands. In Denmark you’ll see mothers breastfeeding in the public (in the summer, at least…). In Scotland the parliament passed a law in 2004 making it illegal to ban women from public breastfeeding: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4021137.stm. I just don’t understand why it’s an issue with a woman breastfeeding her baby in public – is that illegal in the US?
And, no, I couldn’t find many pictures, apart from Jerry Hall (in Vanity Fair) and Keely Shaye-Smith (in Redbook). Not public in the same way as the picture of M.G., I guess. However, public breastfeeding does happen every day, but perhaps not in the US.
Her. It’s her daughter Ramona.
It does suck that that moment is captured for prying eyes but Maggie clearly can’t care that much. She knows about the paparazzi and chose to breast feed openly in public. That makes me think she doesn’t give a shit what happens.
Just another reason to love MG. Also, check Ramona’s eyelashes! Did she get the fabulous Gyllenhaal eyes?
Exactly. Gyllenhaal’s been famous for awhile, and I’m sure she’s well aware that she’s going to get her picture taken by papparazzi if she breastfeeds in public, but she does not care. I love this photo because she’s deliberately making a point of normalizing public breastfeeding. And the more publicly it’s portrayed as the lovely act that it is, the easier it will make the lives of other breastfeeding mothers. So, imo, Maggie Gyllenhaal is using her celebrity status to impact society in a positive way – and all she had to do was meet a friend for brunch.
And re: latching on/off, I think maybe this photo was snapped when the baby was almost finished and getting ready to latch off completely. I’m not so sure this photo was taken mid-nurse.
It’s not illegal, but it’s sometimes looked down upon. Breast-feeding mothers are often told to go to the bathroom, to not do that in public, that it’s gross, etc etc. It’s actually a relatively heated public debate. That’s why Maggie’s public breast-feeding is so cool — it’s something that women are routinely punished and shamed for.
Which is pretty funny, because you know what I find gross? Eating in the bathroom. And if I don’t want to do it, I don’t see any reason to think a baby would.
It’s not just that women sometimes get hassled in the U.S. for breastfeeding in public. It’s that there’s been a bit of an internet shitstorm directed at Gillenhaal for that particular picture.
I was so happy to see this too. I was lucky enough to breastfeed my kids while living in Hawaii where it seemed so much more culturally accepted than in other states…. at the time, my friends in Connecticut (my home state) were all giving up breastfeeding because they found it so difficult to breastfeed in public… they got lots of disapproving stares. Even if you can manage to ignore the stares, if it stresses you out (and it can) your milk flow is adversely affected. In 1997, when i was nursing my first son, I think it was still actually illegal to breastfeed in public in CT. I was glad I wasn’t there.
For a lot of nursing moms, especially first-time nursing moms, breastfeeding in public can be so stressful. Even if its not illegal, it really sucks to get sideways looks of disdain while trying to feed your baby. And for many, overcoming modesty is hard enough without people giving you grief.
And I agree with Sally on the eating-in-the-bathroom thing. I tried that once and hated it… not only for me but because i felt really awful making my baby eat in a bathroom. After that, when we felt like we needed some privacy, we sought out dressing rooms instead. But usually I just draped a cloth and went for it.
Good for her!
That’s actually the first celebrity woman I’ve ever seen a photo of breastfeeding. They all say they do it, but I’ve never seen (a picture) of one breastfeeding – I’d grown used to thinking that they were all lying.
But then, Maggie also went full-term, which apparently goes against the trend of celebrity births these days. Imagine!
Ole,
Yes, it seems to be completely un-extraordinary, but that’s because you’re a reasonable, logical person. Here in the ol’ USofA, cities have had to pass anti-harassment laws to keep breastfeeding moms from being kicked out of public places, and that’s only in a few progressive cities. I’ve seen moms kicked out of public pools for daring to breastfeed UNDER A BLANKET while barely bikini’d women walked about all around them, I’ve been refused the use of a dressing room (out of many empties) at a department store to breastfeed because “someone might need to try something on and you should do that in the bathroom anyway”, I know countless moms who routinely plan their entire shopping days around making it to Babies R Us at the right time of day because that’s the only place with a “safe” breastfeeding area. It’s still entirely stigmatized in most areas.
Jill, car: I wasn’t aware of that. It’s different from Scandinavia… Thanks for enlightening me :)
I am easily squicked by anything related to pregnancy/childbirth, but I love that M.G. doesn’t give a f*** and is making things easier for other mothers (one hopes).
Asking women to go into a bathroom to feed an infant at a pool or mall is ridiculous. However, I wouldn’t want to see breastfeeding in a nice restaurant. While it is “natural,” so are many other things we don’t do in certain venues.
It is great that she’s pushing against this outrageous status quo, but I can’t help but think her baby girl is going to be haunted by that photo for years to come.
“It is great that she’s pushing against this outrageous status quo, but I can’t help but think her baby girl is going to be haunted by that photo for years to come.”
I doubt it. By the time she’s old enough to give a rat’s ass about some photo of herself eating as a baby, the picture will be so old hat that it won’t be in circulation outside of a few skeazy internet sites.
Also, yes, kudos to her. I’m so sick of reading about idiots on power trips chasing nursing moms out of public spaces because they personally think the act is disgusting, unhygienic, or lascivious.
The longer we stigmatize it, the more likely that will happen.
I don’t get why women should breast-feed in dressing rooms- they aren’t for that purpose, and what if some milk spills on the seat or the carpet? That’s kind of gross for someone else to walk into or sit on, and it much harder to clean up than say a bathroom, which is all easily cleanable and routinely cleanable spaces.
Stores are maintaining those spaces for people to try on clothing. They are not getting money by allowing people to fill their rooms using them for other purposes.
Oh, wev Jennifer. Have you ever been out trying to get things
done with an infant in tow? Have you ever spent some ridiculous amount of time trying to find a place to take care of your kid’s needs while they are squalling unappeasably? Somehow, I doubt it.
Jennifer,
1. The odds of spilling milk while breastfeeding are very, very low. Much lower than while bottlefeeding.
2. Most moms are not complete slob pigs, and if a mess is made they will clean it up.
3. In that particular instance, there were 5 dressing rooms, all empty, in an almost entirely empty women’s section.
4. The reason for asking about the dressing room in the first place was to avoid all of the “Eww, you can’t do that out here! It will scare the customers!” response I would have gotten otherwise, as well as the eww responses from the customers themselves.
5. Bathrooms aren’t for that purpose either.
6. For that matter, I think it would be much less of an imposition for any given customer to have a dressing room tied up for 20 minutes than to have the bathroom tied up for 20 minutes. You don’t have to try on that dress right away nearly as badly as someone might have to go potty right away.
7. Really good stores have clean lounges in the front of the bathrooms with places to sit and mirrors to do makeup – that’s a great compromise that I wish more stores could afford.
Awesome!! I do not understand this societies freakishness over breasts. Part of this manufactured mystique about breasts is part of what is driving this large breast obsession, IMO. Breasts are primarily for feeding babies, but centuries of focus on hiding breasts during the more puritan periods, because they are also tools of sexual arousal. This obsession with “dirty pillows”, has now superceded our common sense in providing for the nurturing off our offspring. One more way the human race is attempting to exterminate itself.
I guess that as someone who has worked retail since high school, I tend to think about the bottom line. For instance, a lot of people think its alright to use bathrooms at stores and fast food places when they aren’t purchasing anything. They get huffy if you ask them to purchase something, thinking that as long as it isn’t a super fancy place, its fair game. They don’t realize that soap, toliet paper, and water all cost money to the business, as well as the cost of having people clean the bathrooms. In Europe, there are public restrooms that cost €.80 or less to use. That seemed fair- there was no burden on local businesses.
My point about the clean up wasn’t that I think mothers are slobs, merely that it is harder to clean linen seats than plastic or tile in bathrooms. I see women using dressing rooms to change diapers as well- is that alright too? Personally, I would never use that dressing room again; too much room for germs.
I also wonder how many of these mothers that I see changing their kids in public have cars with them- and in my hometown, there is very little public transportation and too much urban sprawl to walk most places- so why not use that car to change the kid? I realize that wouldn’t apply to all women, as some don’t have cars, but certainly in my area, they do.
Good for her. I can’t think of another celebrity who has ever done this, either.
I wish that I could be more like Ole and have absolutely no clue why this would be a big deal. It shouldn’t be a big deal. What a fucked up world we live in.
Jennifer – I breastfed for almost 4 years total and never once did I have milk “spill”. The closest was right after the baby was born and my milk came in and I would have one breast leak a little. Never more than got caught by my bra. I’d say that lasted about a week with both babies.
In fact, I’ve never heard of anyone spilling breastmilk and I went to LLL meetings for 3 years straight.
Now me? I wouldn’t ask to use a dressing room because I’d just breastfeed in the store. If they don’t like it, fuck ‘em. I wouldn’t use a lounge in a bathroom either – yuck! All the people who don’t wash their hands, all the aerosolized fecal matter? Yeah, so not what I want my child exposed to.
I remember seeing a picture of Lucy Lawless breastfeeding. But it was a posed poster for a campaign in Australia.
But Jennifer, we’re talking about breast-feeding, not changing diapers. The two aren’t even close. And nursing is certainly less messy than bottle-feeding; there’s not much likelihood of a scenario where a mom is dripping breast milk all over a dressing room. Plus there is the fact that breast-fed babies don’t tend to spit up as much as bottle fed, so it’s not as if you have to worry about mothers burping their babies and the babies leaving spit-up all over the dressing room either.
I guess I’m just not following your point. Do you object to nursing in public, changing diapers in public, or just moms doing any infant care in public?
I absolutely object to diaper changes in public- that should be done in a bathroom, same as anyone else. I only brought up diapers because I see that in public often enough.
I don’t care about nursing, but I would rather women did it in the food court at the mall or the bathroom than the changing rooms- that isn’t their purpose, and perhaps sometimes its not a big deal, but it shouldn’t be assumed that it is alright to use them for anything besides their intended purpose. Again, the dressing rooms exist to sell clothes, not to nurse your kid.
Again, perhaps all the mothers here are clean individuals who would never dream of making a mess, but after you have worked retail- and had to clean up after some of the giant messes they make- you don’t assume people are going to clean up after themselves. I wouldn’t wish certain messes I have seen (and had to clean) on my worst enemy.
I love that picture. As a mom who did plenty of breastfeeding in public (more covered than that, but still…) I can appreciate people who take up that challenge and don’t worry about what other people think.
Ramona does seem to have Mom’s eyes and eyebrows ;) …and yes, even though I can not tell from the photo the context of the environment it doesn’t seem a horribly private situation (I hazard a guess from the pose that Maggie, her daughter and the man in the photo may not be the only people in the setting).
I look forward to the day when we normalize this very natural act, and move beyond seeing public breastfeeding as either a display of the female breast as a “sex organ” – or, perhaps more threateningly, a desexualizing event that “spoils” some people’s fantasy (yes, I’m talking about you, Rabbi Shmuley Boteach) that breasts are never to be seen by men outside of the bedroom lest their erotic power be diluted.
Breastfeeding a baby in a bathroom is gross. It is unconscionable to suggest that it’s a reasonable alternative for a nursing mother and baby. I am appalled at the cavalier attitude with which this particular suggestion is tossed around.
That baby is ADORABLE, the picture is BEAUTIFUL, and frankly half the fun of nursing a baby that age is you can tell they are starting to “play” with the breast for fun — and NOT sexual fun, either.
By the way if you live near a Nordstrom, their rest rooms have beautiful, comfortable couches, low lighting, and clean baby-changing areas. I think my first son spent half his first three months in the 3rd floor rest room at the local Nordstrom. I could get out of the house and run some errands at the mall, and have a little lunch, maybe even read my book for a bit while he napped after nursing. No Nordstrom employee ever got snotty about it, either. They all either ignored me or smiled when they came into the room.
To a new mother, moments like that are a godsend. You have no idea if you haven’t been through it or seen someone close to you go through it. To be relegated to feeding your baby on a toilet or never leaving the house is a hideous choice. Shame on anyone who lets their hang-ups get in the way of nature. Do you feel the same way about bottle feeding, too? Of course not. Because bottles are not sexualized.
Well, women are not the ones who sexualized the breast, by the way.
Breastfeeding isn’t the purpose of the bathroom, either. And as other people here have stated, for health risks, it really shouldn’t be done unless absolutely necessary.
I agree that a woman should be able to breastfeed anywhere she is “allowed” to bottle feed.
There are health issues to nursing in the bathroom, as others point out–human beings do generally know enough not to shit where they eat, literally. It’s also wildly uncomfortable. Do you really think it’s reasonable to expect women to sit on unlidded toilets for half an hour, listening to and smelling other people shit? With no place to put her bags or coats?
Link whoring a little bit here. Ole, if you want to see how some idiots in the US think, you can read the thread I put up about this on Alas.
Then, in response to an older post, I had this anti-breastfeeding troll who posted.
The good news is that these blatant anti-breastfeeding in public people are a minority, but a fairly sizeable one. I also think there is another maybe 40% who are not totally against but are uncomfortable. This is an unfortunate product of our Puritan ancestors. We are an incredibly hypocritical country when it comes to sex. Most of our schools don’t even have any real meaningful sexual education, and sex women are all over TV with their breast exposed, but then we have a bunch of people who have no problem oogling Pam Andersons breasts and throw a fit when they see a woman breast feeding (which isn’t sexual at all).
I love that picture, too, and it brought back some wonderful memories. Yeah– babies who have nursed for a long time and are really comfortable do play while they’re at it. They both look completely at ease. Yay, Maggie!
Uhm.. here in Germany brestfeading is social accpeted, I think. Last time I saw a women breastfeeding was in a preparation meeting on some local politics. And no one had any problem with it. ;)
If that image changes the minds of a few women who were on the verge of feeding in public, good has been done.
Even more likely, but depending on how widely the picture is circulated, it might budge the barriers of acceptance a bit. Stars and celebrities should use their prominence for something beside publicising how drunk driving cases are handled.
I like taking the long view of things myself, so I am waiting to see if the kid grows up with the insouciance of an African villager about what after all [are you listening dodsonites?] is not a sexual activity but a goddamned meal…as nature meant it to be served.
Well, I would rather have breastfed at the food court, too – I was too sensitive to comments and stares, so attempting to use a dressing room was my way of caving into the social pressure and find a clean place where no one would have to look at me. If that isn’t ok either, what’s left?
People should not bf in bathrooms, or have to hide behind blankets (if they don’t want to), or be told go somewhere they don’t want to. People should feel free to bf in public, even in clothing stores.
That being said, I can understand why Jennifer would prefer people not to bf in the change rooms. Here’s the thing- its Jennifer’s work place, and she has to keep it clean.
So, hypothetically, if there was a small amount of breast milk left in the change room (however unlikely it is), its her job to clean it up. I am not equating this with changing diapers in public. I’m not saying human milk is ‘icky’, but it is a human biological fluid that can contain bacteria and viruses. I can’t blame anyone that does not wish to chance having to clean up other people’s biological fluids. I don’t know about Jennifer’s workplace, but when I last worked retail, gloves impermeable to viruses and disinfectant were not to be found in the cleaning supplies. Maybe they should be, but they were not. (Think about being the new person that gets the cleaning duties, but not being able to order the cleaning supplies, and/or not knowing its unsafe- thats retail for you).
Jennifer is wrong to ask people to bf in the bathroom, but I don’t think its right to say the change room is a good place to bfeed either.
It’s an endearing picture.
We fought hard in California to get women the right to breast-feed in public (including businesses, of course, like restaurants, not just on the street). The guy who pushed the bill through the assembly was the current mayor of LA, Villaraigosa (now in the midst of a messy divorce). It was a huge win, but the number of folks — including restaurant owners — who haven’t gotten the message that it’s legal to feed your kid from your breast in any business in the state is, well, amazing.
Since we are on the topic of breastfeeding in public and I could not hope to find a more liberal and honest sampling of opinions, may I ask:
Under what circumstances does anyone [, but friend/stranger male/female and adult/child may all be important, ] converse with a woman who is breast feeding? I imagine most women would already be very selfconsious and not comfortable…what does one do to put a person at ease in this situation? An unsolicited sentiment of approval might not be taken as meant.
I have not been in this situation more than once or twice in my life that I can remember. What I would expect to do is pay no attention beyond that necessary to avoid accidents and not speak unless spoken to…and I imagine the “personal space” envelope would be larger than that in the picture.
Where are you shopping that this is frequently the case, out of curiosity? I can think of, well, Nordstrom’s and other large mostly-clothing stories–Bloomingdale’s has pretty nice bathrooms too. That’s pretty much it. But then I live in NYC and space is a little limited, heh.
I’ve done this, and I always feel bad but sometimes you don’t really have an alternative. I try to go to a Starbucks (which is usually possible since there’s one like every 3 blocks in New York; if you stand at the 91st street (west side) Starbucks and loo carefully, you can literally see the 93rd street Starbucks at the door) or else somewhere else I tend to go to and am likely to keep spening money in the future. (one time I ducked into a Barnes & Noble that I frequent and wound up facing a women’s bathroom undergoing repairs and a crazy long line. boy did I wish I had sucked it up and tried McDonald’s, grossness or no).
Hugo’s post reminded me of another state – somewhere in the mid-West, maybe? – where businessowners were so frequently unaware that it had been made legal for women to breastfeed in public that an activist group made laminated cards with the text of the law, that mothers could carry and use to promptly shut down any interference. It struck me as a great idea, but saddnened me to realize it was even necessary.
It’s also sad that breastfeeding is so readily compared with “changing diapers” in Jennifer’s post. This is an incredibly damaging parallel to draw, even if it was just a throwaway comment or hasty analogy. Just look at that freak Rachel linked to, who really DID believe it was tantamount to shitting in public…utter nonsense and pure woman-hating. I mean, do we really need one MORE thing about a woman’s body to be labeled shameful and dirty – let alone the function that has sustained the human race? The incessant compulsion to fetishize and/or shame us trumps our ability to sustain the human race?? We really can’t win, can we?
Um, the same way you’d act toward her if she was not breastfeeding? Or if she was bottle-feeding? Why on earth do you think acting differently toward a woman because she’s breastfeeding would do anything but make her more uncomfortable?
EEK!! A picture of boobs doing what they are supposed to do! It’s so dan unsettling.
Uh-oh… I just felt a great disturbance in the Patriarchy, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced.
So sad that this even requires discussion, but good on MG!
Where are you shopping that this is frequently the case, out of curiosity?
Heh. Nowhere. I would duck into the Nordstrom’s, trying desperately to look as if I belonged in my fashion de Target as I “nonchalantly” jogged to the women’s room with my almost-screaming infant. So yes, I was using their place without buying anything, but I didn’t use supplies while I was in the restroom, and anyone’s allowed to walk through the place and browse, right? And in my defense, that was only a few times when I misjudged my “plan the whole day around the Babies R Us nursing room” schedule.
I’ve done the “use the bathroom at McDonald’s” thing too, but I rationalize it by thinking about all the dozens of times that I’ve bought things at McDonald’s and NOT used the bathroom. The balance sheet is still on my side.
Under what circumstances does anyone [, but friend/stranger male/female and adult/child may all be important, ] converse with a woman who is breast feeding?
Any, but don’t look straight at the boob, and don’t try to tickle the baby while it’s eating. I once had an entire conversation with an older woman who stopped just to coo over the baby and she didn’t realize what we were doing until she asked to hold him and i had to say no.
If someone gives me disapproving looks when I breast feed I’m just going to say “What! You would rather have my baby starve!”
I say a woman should nurse wherever she fucking wants. I know I will.
That’s really pathetic women depriving their child of those nutrients just because people give them funny stares. I say it’s more reason to tell someone to fuck themselves.
1. Using the bathroom in a retail space, whether you buy something or not, is not a transgression; retail stores put those in specifically to lure customers. If I stop to use the bathroom at a 7-11 I almost always buy something…water or a soda or gum…that I would NOT have bought if I hadn’t stopped to use the restroom. If they weren’t good for business…they wouldn’t be there. So, whatever, my heart is not bleeding about their “intended use.” And frankly, much as I love Europe and NYC, more publicly available restrooms would make those places much more enjoyable…and lead to fewer people pissing it the subways. But I digress.
2. Breastmilk as a dangerous fluid? come on. If one drop of breastmilk ends up dried on the carpet (and that’s about how much you’re going to get, if any) most likely you won’t be able to see it. Much less catch something from it. You would have to actually drink breastmilk to get infected by something…and breastmilk, even from HIV moms, does not often carry any disease agents.
And speaking of fluids…ask employees whether they’re more worried about cleaning up bathrooms or cleaning a dressing room with a potential drop of dried breastmilk on the carpet. Not exactly a biohazard.
This clearly is about your hangups, not any real threat from a mom with a baby in a changing room. If you think breastfeeding is icky, fine, but babies still have to be fed, so you’re going to have to get over it. Personally, I get a little grossed out watching people lick their fingers at the KFC, but I wouldn’t suggest making them eat in the bathroom.
I wonder how many of these anti-bf people are pro-life. I really do.
“why on earth?” well Kathrine, I am just asking. In a world where breast feeding is an ordinary sight in public, I am sure I would not even be asking the question…but the US is not in that world.
I am pro-breastfeeding, but I wonder how many of these people getting on Jennifer’s case have ever worked in retail or have had janitorial jobs? I have had both, and while I think mothers who need to should go to the cleanest, most convenient space they can if they don’t feel comfortable breastfeeding in public, I don’t think the people who work there are out of line being annoyed or bothered by it if those spaces are in use. And those spaces should not be used by non-paying, healthy adults who are on their own and can presumably anticipate need for bathroom use and plan accordingly.
Isabel, sadly the sitting room that was always a part of the ladies’ room in department stores when I was growing up has all but disappeared. But it was a fine convention–comfortable chairs, mirrors, counters, and often even a couch for women who felt faint from shopping too long in girdles and heels.
Sometimes I miss the old days.
I was asking where you got the idea that you needed to act differently around breastfeeding women than you would around anyone else. Not from the women themselves, I’d guess. You said you probably wouldn’t “speak unless spoken to” because the woman would be uneasy and self-conscious. Projection, much?
Man, I have seen breastfeeding debates a MILLION times on Livejournal. And y’know what? From what I’ve seen, it’s not so much the puritanical ‘ew boob’ reaction (although it does happen a LOT), it’s just pure selfish entitlement. Breastfeeding, for whatever reason, makes them uncomfortable*, and thus they think that their right to go in public and never come across anything they see as unseemly is more important than the right of others to go about their business. Honestly, people think they have the right to demand others to go away because that person is upsetting THEIR delicate sensibilities.
Such as – “I paid good money at this restaurant, and that breastfeeding woman over there is putting me off my food, and I have the god-given right to eat my paid food without others disturbing me in any way. If she doesn’t leave, she’s being selfish bitch by violating that right! (*insert demonization of ’selfish mothers’ here*)”
I really wonder how these people actually function, by expecting the entire world to accomodate them – or actually give a damn.
(* To be honest, breastfeeding does disquiet me a little – usually the slurping noises. But hey, that is entirely MY PROBLEM, and I don’t expect anyone to move or stop because of me. I’m not the centre of the universe. And if I don’t like it, I can – gasp – not look, or move away. Amazing!)
Katherine, several people have said they felt uncomfortable breastfeeding in public because of “looks” from others, so I don’t think it’s unreasonable for someone who’s never breastfed to ask how to approach a breastfeeding mother.
Usually, I just say, “ooooh, baby! Congratulations! That’s so nice!” Sometime I say, “Aaah, I miss that!” or something else inane and innocuous.
Most of the time, that gets at least a smile.
“I am pro-breastfeeding, but I wonder how many of these people getting on Jennifer’s case have ever worked in retail or have had janitorial jobs?”
I have. Strangely enough, I found it just as nasty to have to clean somebody else’s misplaced bodily fluids when they were in the bathroom as when they were elsewhere.
It’s not like you find that someone’s expectorated on the seat of a changing room or the check-out counter and go “Oh my god, I cannot believe somebody spit on this, were they off their meds?” but think it’s cute when you see it in the bathroom. You also don’t look at blood on the tile of the entryway and think “Oh my god, HIV! HIV!” but clean it up barehanded if it’s on a toilet seat in the ladies’ room. Where it is doesn’t change what it is, and somebody’s going to have to clean it up if the patron doesn’t, regardless of its location.
“I don’t know about Jennifer’s workplace, but when I last worked retail, gloves impermeable to viruses and disinfectant were not to be found in the cleaning supplies. Maybe they should be, but they were not. (Think about being the new person that gets the cleaning duties, but not being able to order the cleaning supplies, and/or not knowing its unsafe- thats retail for you).”
I’m pretty sure that stores which have bathrooms available for public use are required by law to have adequate cleaning supplies available for the staff who maintain them. It’s a pretty basic health code in addition to fairly standard workplace safety. If you have an employee handling hazardous materials, they need to be of the proper age, properly trained, and properly equipped pretty much across the board.
Kathrine:
yeah, you have a point in that…what else have I got to go on coming from a faux puritanical society [that I hope you would recognize I am honestly trying to move beyond]?
Aaawwwww! Sweet baby!
That is so true kactus. I remember when they had places in JC Penny like that as a child, now they get rid of them because they just want you up and shopping, not *gasp* taking breaks in their huge multi level department stores. Barnes and Noble did it too, where I am, they used to have a lounge space where people would do their homework, it’s now a space for more books.
As for MG, she is rocksome and god bless her for not giving a shit.
I didn’t realize breastfeeding was so controversial in the states. It seems less so in Canada. No one has ever stared or hassled me or given me a bad time except my partner, who unexpectedly turned into the Taliban. I confess to bf – ing in bathrooms to appease him (I simply cannot deal with bf-ing under a blanket) and bathrooms are some bad news. Not clean, hazardous, cramped, and also shameful feeling, like what I’m doing is dirty. ( I feel no shame about pooping in them, because that’s what they’re for.)
But because I’m a mammal, if my kid’s hungry, theory goes out the window. And I find it harder to bf with a tense partner hanging about than in the bathroom, but neither is ideal.
Hm, Blunderbuss’ comment is reminding me of something. What was it? Oh, yeah.
I’d say… breastfeed in the food court. THAT’S the perfect environment… It doesn’t matter HOW you’re eating, it just matters that you are in a place where people are eating. A sloppy dude eating lo mein noodles with his fingers wouldn’t get kicked out… no matter how much he may gross out his neighbors. You really can’t go wrong. And what malls DON’T have a food court these days?
I just get a kick out of the idea because what can anybody say… “this place is for eating!” To which you reply, “Yes, and I’m feeding my child.” It wouldn’t make logical sense for anyone to actually be offended or grossed out by it, unless they say it ruins their appetite or something. But dudes eating lo mein with their fingers would gross me out, too. But I don’t think there would be any way that it could be un-allowed.
Just a follow-up: I don’t want anyone to misinterpret what I was saying in comparing Gross Guy Eating Noodles With Fingers to Breast-feeding Mothers by saying that they’re both gross. Breastfeeding is not gross. I was just trying to illustrate how some people (the ones who think babies should eat in bathrooms) think it’s gross for some reason.
I wonder if those people were breast-fed. My mom told me recently that she breast-fed me for only a short amount of time, because she didn’t feel comfortable doing it in public, and my grandparents would often show up unannounced at the house, and she got fed up with it. When my younger sister was born, she breast-fed her in the hospital and went to bottles after that. I think that if breastfeeding wasn’t so sexualized or stigmatized, she may have breast-fed more. Or, maybe not. Maybe she just wouldn’t have been able to handle it.
But the interesting thing is that, growing up, I was always a very healthy kid, rarely sick save a cold maybe once a year, and my sister was always very sickly. I think the amount of time we were breast-fed had something to do with that, and my mom agrees. It’s obviously important, and natural, and necessary. If you can do it, you absolutely should, and the public should understand all of that, instead of being offended or grossed out.
That would be awesome, but you know what? The cleaning guy is only here 40 hours a week. The store is open much longer than that. If someone has smeared shit all over the bathroom walls- and they do- then it needs to be cleaned up. The boss is going to make the nearest person do that, regardless of their training. And if I don’t like it, I can just go home and never get another paycheck.
McDonald’s specifically advertises free bathrooms. In Oklahoma they worked out a deal with ODOT to provide free restrooms on the turnpikes and, in exchange, ODOT wouldn’t put other restrooms on the turnpike. They realize that there will be a certain percentage who only stopped to use the restroom but ended up buying fries because the scent overwhelmed them. So yeah, I don’t feel at all guilty using McDonald’s just for the restroom, even in places other than Oklahoma interstates.
Food courts are all well and good, IF you’re shopping in a mall and not in a strip mall or stand alone store. Of course, when I had a breastfeeding child and at lunch in the mall everyday (and horrors, I brought my own food) I would eat my lunch and then walk around the mall continuing to feed him. Occasionally I would sit on a bench if he was fussy.
As to how to talk to a breastfeeding woman. If she is someone you would normally talk to (eg – you work retail and she walks in feeding a child) talk to her like everyone else (in the example “do you need any help?”). Otherwise remember that she’s a stranger and treat her like you treat strangers (IOW, ignore her). If you feel you need to say something a simple “You go girl” “Aww, how sweet” or the similar will suffice and then go away.
Breastfeeding didn’t make me uncomfortable but attention from strangers does. I much preferred it if they ignored me totally. I specifically didn’t use a blanket for this purpose – I have small enough breasts that without the blanket most people had no idea what I was doing. I also didn’t use a blanket because my babies hated them (for good reason, it gets damned hot under those stupid blankets).
Go Maggie!!!
As a first time breastfeeding mother that feels like she is about to go crazy, I am so happy to see this post! And even happier to see the comments and that I didn’t spot any “well, it’s OK as long as she is DISCREET” junk.
My son HATES blankets too. It’s hot enough around here lately without some blanket on you.
My only problem with people talking to me while I’m nursing my son is that it will distract him–he’ll pull off and try to smile at the person talking. Just try not to talk very loud, I guess. Otherwise, it doesn’t really bother me how you approach me. It’s probably best to just leave it at a smile or something small and if the woman wants to talk more, maybe she will start more of a conversation.
I’m with Jennifer on this. I’m sorry but I just don’t want to eat, sit, step, or change in another woman’s breast milk.
Changing rooms are for changing. The food court isn’t for nursing.
Yes it is natural, but it can still make a mess. I’d prefer not to step where someone has spit or some asshole has jerked off, etc either. As someone who used to work in a Macy’s kids department, I know first hand that breastfeeding can and does make a mess, and many people will just leave it.
Take it to the bathroom or better yet your car.
Isn’t the food court for eating? Aren’t nursing babies eating?
Eating in the food court makes a mess, Katie – whether a person is eating her momma’s milk or something from Smoothie King. People are getting squigged out because breast milk comes out of BREASTS.
A lot of the opposition to public breastfeeding stems from male entitlement to women’s bodies. They freak when they see a woman using her breasts for something other than male titilation. “Hey! Those are supposed to arouse me! Quit ruining them with that baby!” Along those lines. The same folks would have no problem if Maggie were wearing a skimpy bikini in public, but if it’s a baby’s mouth (rather than a few inches of fabric) covering her nipple all of a sudden it’s offensive. Give me a break.
I’m not a breastfeeding mom, but I do live in New York City, and for me this might be impossible. I don’t have a car. There aren’t shopping malls here, so there’s no food court. Many of the stand-alone stores simply don’t have bathrooms, especially the more affordable ones. The places that do have public bathrooms (Starbucks, McDonalds) are usually pretty filthy — I have to work up the courage to pee in there, and would never consider eating (or expecting my baby to eat) in those places.
Adults eating in a food court can make messes too. I know I’ve seen more sticky, gross piles of food court Chinese food on tables and chairs than I have seen puddles of breast milk (and I’m still not really clear on how you can really make a big mess with breastmilk?). Maybe we should all just eat in the bathroom in case we make a mess. Or better yet, let’s all stay at home just in case we are too messy for other people to handle.
Take it to the bathroom or better yet your car.
You must live in a nice northerly area. Here in southern California, trying to breastfeed your infant in the car would probably be classified as child abuse since it’s upwards of 90 degrees every day. Unless you’re picturing someone driving around with the A/C on while breastfeeding? ‘Cause I’m sure that wouldn’t be dangerous at all.
And I have to say, it’s pretty amazing that you’re squicked out by breast milk but think it’s perfectly okay for a woman and her infant to sit on a toilet surrounded by aerosolized feces while the kid eats. Eeeewwww.
I worked retail when I was pregnant. I often had women with babies ask if there was someplace quiet that they could bf (maybe because i was pregnant they thought- correctly- that i would be understanding). We had a corner of the store with an unused staircase where I would send them- not because bfing should be hidden away but because they could sit since we didn’t have any seating. I never had to clean up any breast feeding accidents- ever.
I worked in downtown Seattle, across from the market and a well known strip club. So it wasn’t like they even had the public bathroom choice, but still- who wants to feed their kid in a toilet.
I breastfed everywhere- planes, restaurants, park benches and once sitting on a sidewalk at a street fair with boob in full view because I wore a tank dress and forgot a blanket. I always thought it was better to feed the kid than to subject everyone in a 10 block radius to screaming hungry child wails or to spend all the months that kid was breastfeeding in seclusion from the outside world so as not to offend people.
People are getting squigged out because breast milk comes out of BREASTS.
Exactly. I’ve never run across a mess made by breastfeeding. I have run across messes made when the kid spit up, but guess what? That has nothing to do with breastfeeding–it has to do with babies’ anatomy. Babies spit up just as much if not more when they’re nursing from a bottle. And yet, I’ve never heard of a woman being asked not to bottle-feed her infant anyplace.
An observation–
One would think that this topic would pit liberals against conservatives and females against males, with females and liberals being pro-breastfeeding. However, this doesn’t seem to happen. There are many liberals who are uncomfortable with breastfeeding and many women who are uncomfortable.
I think this thread does seem to confirm that observation.
“The boss is going to make the nearest person do that, regardless of their training. And if I don’t like it, I can just go home and never get another paycheck.”
That has precisely nothing to do with whether or not demanding that an employee who has not been provided with the proper sort gloves and cleaning solutions handle human waste is legal, or a reasonable thing to expect customers to take into account. When you shop, do you assume that everyone who helps you is being made to work off the clock lest they lose the job entirely?
Also, you didn’t really address the point I made above that–you know, that someone’s going to need to clean it up whether it’s spilled in the bathroom or the dressing room. If they don’t have the proper gloves and cleaners to wipe off a seat in the dressing room without fear of catching ebola, those things aren’t going to magically appear just because the mess is in the bathroom. It’s also not going to magically not need to be cleaned up if it happens in the bathroom rather than the dressing room.
So, how does demanding that nursing mothers feed their babies in a room where people routinely fling feces onto the walls change anything except how much the mother is being punished for venturing into public with an infant? Particularly in establishments where there’s a single toilet per gender?
preying mantis- you said
So I said that was not true. And it is not. I am not trained in janitorial work, and in fact only the one with that title on the paycheck gets that training. Do you get that this is not a fact? Perhaps it is required, but that doesn’t mean it is enforced.
But its easier to clean a bathroom because its all smooth, shiny surfices, as opposed to carpets and padded chairs.
Depends where I am shopping. At Wal-mart, absolutely, they have been proven to do this. Actually, lots of retail locations and chains have started (continued?) doing this , perhaps in light of how Wal-mart gets away with it. You should be thinking about this because it is a reality for many people. Do you think that everyone who waits on you in retail or in restaurants is getting paid a living wage?
I didn’t say they have to feed there, merely that they shouldn’t feed in the dressing rooms. I said the food court was fine. For the record, all the stores in my local mall have more than one toilet. BTW, I offered that in my town, it is perfectly reasonable to think that women could breast feed in their car, as well, if they are seeking privacy.
*
For the record, I don’t care about breast feeding. And if the breast is unsexualized for mothers, why not for all women? Hell, I think women should be allowed to go topless the all the time. Anyone willing to join me in that legal battle?
I breastfed both my kids, and I did it whenever they were hungry, wherever we happened to be. But I sure as hell was not going to do it in a place where people can’t even be bothered to pee in the toilet rather than on the seat. So if I was shopping for clothes at a store, I would have no problem using a changing room. And never once did I “spill” any breast milk. I’m not even sure how that’s possible. I get that there may be slobs who will leave a dressing room in bad shape after feeding – but do they represent the majority? Perhaps no one should be able to use the restroom because there are some people out there who will smear feces on the wall.
Retail establishments assume that there will be people using their space without purchasing things. They also assume that their employees will clean up whenever and whatever is required. Does it suck to be in retail? Yep. A hell of a lot. But, like crazed customers and stock shortages and layouts that ignore both the demographic and architecture of your particular store and multiple people making inane requests for things you can’t possibly have, cleaning up messes is part of the job. That’s why there’s a high turnover in retail.
This, in fact, is a good assumption. 4 years of working retail part time to pay tuition, with friends who also worked retail would tell me that we had all been asked to work off the clock and almost all of us did. People who were paid to total the sales at the end of the night were the rare exception, and not the rule. Or they were paid 15 minutes for a job that took half an hour. Many of us were expected to work unpaid for ‘team meetings’, ‘a few minutes extra to drop the cash at the bank’, or ‘a few minutes to vacuum’. Most nights I worked 15-30 minutes off the clock. When I did a 12 hour shift, I worked an extra half hour in the morning to vacuum and open the cash, was unpaid for lunch and supper (legal where I worked), and stayed the extra time at the end of the evening. I know it was illegal to be asked to work off the clock, but it still happened and probably continues to happen. I needed that job.
The difference between the washroom and the dressing room- the people who clean washrooms are equipped for hazardous material, and the people who clean dressing rooms are not, in some cases.
For the record, I worked in a large shopping mall with two sets of public washrooms (both male and female with change tables) on each floor, (and a third, private, ‘family washroom’ that had a change table, a nursing rocker, and a notice as to the availiblity of free extra diapers at the information office). They were cleaned every half hour. But if people don’t want to bf in the washroom, they shouldn’t have to. The family washrooms might be occupied and there are issues of cleanliness.
Not every store in the mall had a washroom (legal). Some stores had change rooms, but no washrooms (also legal in my jurisdiction). This made a good deal of sense, given the number of public (and free) washrooms in the mall. Most stores did not have janatorial staff that worked 40 hours a week. The janatorial staff that cleaned the mall washrooms did have gloves and disinfectant. They were, if not trained, at least equipped, to clean up hazardous material.
I worked in a store that did not have a washroom (because there were numerous public washrooms nearby and it was a small store), and did not have cleaning supplies beyond paper towel, carpet spot remover, and glass cleaner. We had no washroom, so no disinfectant and no ‘need’ for gloves. I did not recieve any training for hazardous materials. And yet I still had to clean up baby spit up, and on one memorable ocassion, half eaten plums left on the carpet. That might also be illegal, but it still happened. I could also tell everyone about the fire exit being blocked on a regular basis, or having to use ladders that put employees at heights that would have required safety harnesses, but thats off topic.
That is the way it was. Its not the way it should be. I know that breast milk is probably one of the lower risk things to handle. But its still someone’s health and life and, should there be a mess (less than likely to happen, but possible), its a risk most people would not take themselves without proper training and equipment.
I’m not saying breast milk is icky. Its not. It is the perfect food for babies, (and toddlers). I was bfed myself and plan on bfeeding any kids I have. I don’t have a problem with bfeeding, I have a problem with assuming that retail workers have the training and supplies and clout to keep themselves safe. I didn’t have the clout to ensure I was paid for the hours I worked, or keep the fire exit clear. And if Jennifer says she isn’t safe to clean, and has not been trained, should there be spillage, I think that should be respected and addressed. Dismissing her lack of safety, and Katie’s observations that bfeeding can make a mess (and that some moms leave the mess) isn’t right.
If the general public was more open to bfeeding in public and treated bfeeding as natural and normal and nonsexual, I doubt that using the change room would be an issue.
You know what, Jennifer? I’ve worked in retail too. And when you let people into the dressing room, you don’t know what they’re going to do in there. We’ve had kids puke and drunk men pee on the floor. We’ve had teenagers sneak other teenagers in with stolen boxes of condoms and have sex. We always let moms in to breastfeed because there really wasn’t anywhere else in the store for them to sit down. And when you say that’s not a dressing room’s purpose, I have to ask you: what place has that specific purpose? Certainly not a bathroom or a food court. I’ve never heard of a breastfeeding room, frankly.
My wife feeds our child wherever she happens to be at the time, has never had any real issues doing so. I don’t know if it’s really that different up here in Canada, but we haven’t really had to deal with any fallout at all.
As for potential messes, the only way I can see it happening is if her other breast is exposed for some reason. Doesn’t happen much now, but at the start sometimes there would be some, uh… leakage while our daughter nursed on the other breast. Well, not so much leakage as spraying. Not huge amounts, but definitely there.
One of our friends was a little uncomfortable with it, but we cured him of that. She even comes to visit me at work with our daughter and we eat lunch in the atrium. Only one person has commented on the fact of her breastfeeding there, and it wasn’t a negative comment.
Come to think of it, I didn’t realize that she was feeding my daughter when she came to my band’s gig, and I got her to come up on stage for a song she knew and could sing with. She just came on up and sang, holding our daughter in front of her. Didn’t come forward to show off the baby when the MC suggested it though.
We don’t treat it as a big deal, and it’s never been treated as a big deal. It’s great if this becomes more commonplace, as this whole obsession is silly in the extreme.
I’d say to go off her actions. If she’s sitting in a private or semi-private location, maybe hold of and allow her the privacy. If you’re a server and she’s bfing at the table, the amount of conversation that would be expected
I personally don’t care much. I also have a snacker of a babe, who will suddenly and quite loudly proclaim his need to eat but be satisfied with a relatively short nursing session. Either I need to work my way through a shop looking for a place to sit down with a squalling babe, or I can put him into cradle hold, pop him on the boob, and walk around with him.
You actually see LESS if I’m walking around with him, because he “hugs” the breast to keep it steady, thus covering even the minimal amount of bare skin that would otherwise be seen. And he pulls the shirt down when finished, so exposure is very limited.
Did I ever say I thought this was ok? Did I ever say, “Jeez, not breast feeding moms, but drunk teens and urinators and sex?” No, I did not.
Apparently they have them at Toys R Us. But you know what? A lack of a room for bfers does not mean they should do it in the dressing rooms. Those are for people to try on clothes, so that they will buy them and keep our store in the black so that I can pay my water bill. I don’t want anyone coming in the store to fuck around, and I dislike people who have no intention of buying things coming in and unfolding shirts and taking up dressing rooms. I don’t want teens hanging out there, I don’t want old people demanding lipstick samples from the Clinique counter, I dislike people who are clearly only taking up space in my store. Hell, why not? Let people bf in my store, as long as they promise to buy something, and to clean up after themselves (it seems there are people verifying that there are occasional messes from babies breast feeding.)
MJ- thanks, I knew I couldn’t be living in some crazy world where I was the only one with sucky work conditions, and people who don’t get it.
Jennifer, can you please tell me what retail establishment is yours, so that I can stay the hell away from it? I mean, your attitude towards customers seems pretty far removed from the customer service that I want in a store where I would spend my money. Stores are there to sell products, of course, but they are also there to provide a comfortable atmosphere for people to shop — otherwise we’d just buy everything online. “Buy our shit or get the fuck out” isn’t going to attract customers — at the very least, it won’t attract a clientele that cares about the store.
I’m pregnant with my first, so I don’t know what it will be like when I try to bf — I may be unable to do so, or I may face many of the challenges faced by nursing moms in the past. But I decided early on in my pregnancy that I needed to adopt the following attitude: “I will affirmatively displease people with my personal choices, but that’s okay, because I don’t need to please anyone other than myself, my kid, and (maybe) my spouse.” Every choice women make regarding pregnancy and child care is fetishized in the extreme and seemingly for the sole purpose of making every woman feel inadequate and ashamed. Fuck that noise. I don’t even have a kid yet and I’m tired of it.
As for the sexualized breast issue, I wonder if it would be a good product idea to have a breastfeeding cover-up made of a very light mesh (so as to keep the baby cool) and have a pair of big bikini boobs silk-screened on it. Think that would throw the mall cops and the mouth-breathing dickwads off the scent?
Do you really think most people who deal with the public actually like the public? I can fake it with the best of them, but after an 8 hour shift, who could like people? How many people scream at you in a shift where you work? How many people try to scam you? How many people try to mess up your display?
To shop, not to hang around. I understand when people come in to browse, say, to buy something, but they can’t find what they want. People who are just wandering aimlessly, with no intention whatsoever of supporting your store- that annoys me. Again, I don’t know where you work, but have you ever had people abandon carts of groceries, many of which are melting, at your work? I have. Ever had someone mess up all your t-shirts you just folded? I have. Ever have people just wander in to sit around and take up space? Ever have people eat the groceries in the store and leave chicken wing bones and empty boxes on the shelves? Ever have people shoplift from you? How about people who come in off the street just to make your bathrooms gross? Ever have someone go into the dressing room only to leave all the clothes on the floor, stepped on, spilled on, and otherwise unsaleable?
Fuck, have you ever worked minimum wage retail? It sucks, and I want to see who you know who loves their job after years of this awfulness.
Jennifer,
I have worked minimum wage retail, and I think your attitude is out of line. I have had to do all the things you’ve bitched about and guess what, hon? It’s all a part of freakin retail. You don’t have to love your job, but is that really any excuse to take it out on poor women who are just trying to provide the best sustenance available for their child.
All of your posts have been all about poor little you, in your sucky retail job. Try raising a kid, that’s a job of constant clean up and no appreciation, on top off having to deal with hysterical prudes and mouth breathers like you, who freak out cuz she doesn’t want to face the social stigma of feeding her child in public.
And what’s really sad is that you can’t even just let it go, but you continue to come back to screech why we should make mothers feed in public(and be subject to stares and lewd comments) or feed in bathrooms(would you eat there?). Your attitude is that your a special snowflake, and nursing mothers should just go to hell.
And just out of curiousity, do you own the store? Cuz you take all of these common retail offenses, just a little too personally.
I and others have pointed this out before, but it doesn’t seem to have sunk in: breastfeeding is, as a rule, not a messy activity. I suppose it’s possible that a kid might slurp a little too quickly and some drops would run down its face. They’d land on the Mom’s lap and be absorbed by her clothing. If they landed on a carpeted floor, you’d never notice them, so you wouldn’t have to clean them up. Some babies do spit up. They do it more often with bottles than with breasts, though, and in my vast experience of nursing/burping babies, spit up invariably lands on my shirt. I’m not sure what Jennifer is envisioning, but it’s not like you lay the kid on the floor, stand over her, milk yourself, and try to aim for her mouth. The seal between mouth and breast is pretty tight. Further, most mothers do their utmost to make sure that their babies don’t mess up anybody else. You’ll always get a few jerks, because mothers are people, and the concentration of jerks in the pool of mothers is no less than the concentration of jerks in the general population. But that’s because they’re not jerks, not because they’re breastfeeding.
Yeah, ok, I don’t know what I am supposed to say. Should I not have an opinion on these things? Should I shut up like a good like woman? I hardly think I am ’screeching’ just because I have an opinion, and I have to say, how very patriarchical of you to assume that just because I have an opinion that is different from other people’s, and because I dare to express it, I am some giant bitch of evil. I am allowed to have a minority opinion. I am not being abusive to assert my opinion, I am not name-calling or threating or writing in all caps.
I have said several times that I am not against breast feeding, and that I am totally ok with moving towards a culture that embraces topless women. All I ever said was that I don’t want women breast feeding in my store’s dressing rooms- asking for a little sympathy for a person working minimum wage, who doesn’t want to get yelled at by her boss for allowing people to be using the dressing rooms when they are not making money for the store. The only reason I kept talking about it was that people kept addressing me by name, arguing that I was a terrible person for bringing up that I don’t think women should breast feed in a spot not designed for breast feeding, and that I had to be lying about being forced to clean without training or equipment, even when other people backed me up that this is an issue in the retail world. I would love to have a spot for women to breast feed, but that is not what my store has- but I think its a good idea.
As for taking my job too seriously, I am sorry about that, but you know what? Working retail is a stressful job for someone who suffers from an awful case of depression. I don’t think I am a special snowflake, and you are really pretty mean to accuse someone with low self esteem of that. I would love to work somewhere else, but I can’t.
And I don’t see how bringing up social issues such as terrible working conditions on a feminist blog is a terrible thing. Perhaps the wrong forum, but as I said, I only brought it up because women were suggesting that mothers should breast-feed in dressing rooms, and I disagreed. I said I thought the food court was fine because so many women said they wanted to bf in public, and that makes me a bad person that I agreed? That’s what everyone on the thread was praising Ms Gyllenhaal for.
I don’t think having your own opinion is the problem. I think the problem is that your opinion seems to be based on some misinformation.
1) Breastfeeding is NOT a messy event, so to suggest that breastfeeding in the dressing room creates an unsanitary environment or puts an undue burden on you as a retail worker by creating extra cleaning work is not in context with the reality of breastfeeding.
2) Its basic Business 101 that creating foot traffic in your store increases sales. Women on their way to the dressing room to nurse a baby are exposed to the products in your store and the service of the employees, and are prime targets to focus sales efforts. Stores provide all kinds of services (ATMs come to mind) that don’t produce a direct profit but instead are designed to lure in potential buyers. Young families have many years of product buying in front of them so they are desirable customers. Some progressive retailers (IKEA for instance) are cashing in on this reality by creating a very family-friendly environment. Its the job of the salesperson to turn potential customers into customers, and then to encourage their loyalty to create repeat business. The buy-something-or-don’t-bother-me attitude is not a solid long-term business practice.
3) As a retail worker (and I have been one) you will spend days folding and refolding shirts, rehanging clothes that were tried on and not purchased, cleaning up crap left behind by customers, and otherwise providing customer service to people you may or may not like. You will deal with people all day every day. Its the job and not everyone is cut out for it.
Jennifer:
I think you’re running into a couple of problems here.
First, expectations. Many companies–at the corporate level–have said that nursing mothers can ask for and use dressing rooms as private nursing spaces. In many cases, the corporate level decision hasn’t made it down to the individual store level, or, employees at the store level decide not to implement the policy due to personal bias/disgust/what have you.
The few times I’ve nursed le babe in a dressing room, I was also shopping at the store and planning to purchase clothing there. The two aren’t mutually exclusive–in fact, I’d expect they’d be often combined. One reason I’d be in a store long enough for le babe to want to nurse would be because I was considering purchases. If I was just out and about and expecting that le babe was going to want to nurse again soon, I’d seek out something like a Starbucks or cafe-type-place (or food court), purchase something for me, and sit down in a corner to nurse le babe.
Although, as I said above, I’ve gotten to the point where I’m not going to seek out even a place to sit down if le babe suddenly and desperately proclaims a need to nurse. I can’t decide whether to invest in a sling now, though–le babe always refused to nurse in the infant-size pouch sling we had (and he’s outgrown) although the one night recently I tried out a bedsheet-sling at home in desperation (because he wanted me to walk and nurse him and my arms were tired), he was quite happy to nurse in that.
Second, outside of the spitup which happens with both bottle and breast fed babes, I–and probably most women around here who have breastfed–have a hard time picturing how breastfeeding can get that messy. I have overactive letdown (which is not that common), which means the boob may spray if le babe pops off at the beginning of letdown. First, he doesn’t generally pop off. Second, I’ve never had a spray get anything except his face or his/my clothing. And you’re not talking about something as major as spilling a bottle: the spray is just a little bit of milk, although it might be coming out under a fair amount of pressure.
I mean, I find pumping messy (especially at the end, when you’re trying to capture all the milk all over the inside of the damn horns) and I’ve never lost more than drops. I know exactly how pumping could get messy–I’m terrified of a bottle spill, since I have to pump in the file room–but I’ve not had that issue at work *knock on wood*
Putting breastmilk in bottles for consumption “out in public” is going to be messier than attempting to feed directly from the breast. Le babe liked to let milk from the bottle dribble out the side of his mouth, liked to take mouthfuls of milk from the bottle and then spit, (and, since he mainly rejected bottles at 10 months, now likes to seize them and throw them across the room).
Although, if you do want to talk about messy, I did once dump 4oz of pumped breastmilk on the kitchen floor.
Okay, I’ll bite: Yes, I generally do like customers. I’ve worked retail and restaurants almost my entire working life, and I’m nearly 40. I’m working retail now. Some customers are rude, some are thoughtless, some are scary. When I owned my own store I had a man masturbate in one of our dressing rooms, and I had to chase him out of the store screaming at him, and I was 7 months pregnant at the time. You better believe that was scary. Not to mention unhygienic. I got plagued by a pedophile over the phone for months and a horrible time getting rid of him. I had a man try to rip me off and throw a book at my head when I wouldn’t fall for it. But those people aren’t most people. Most people are coming into your store because they want to be happy and have a good time, and if you treat them like you’re glad that they’re there, and make a genuine effort to assist them, then they will be happy and more considerate of you and your store and make your life easier. When you’re dealing with the public, bad apples are part of the territory. But the rest of the apples are just fine.
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