…I believe artists have always (and will always) use extreme obesity as a symbol of Gluttony. It makes visual and mental sense. Just as one would use a gaunt figure to represent Famine.

So that makes it OK? It’s representational, therefore don’t get offended?

Unbelievable. Absolutely unbelievable.

Boom. Shot. I couldn’t agree with you more, Sally, and in fact when I guest-blogged here awhile back I did a couple of posts on all the contradictory obstacles women were supposed to effortlessly (or at least make it look effortless) navigate through in the name of Great Ideas. And how women are supposed to justify our every action and decision to all and sundry. I agree that in order to keep grassroots movements, be it Slow Food or anything else, conscious of feminist issues, conscious feminists need to be vocally involved in any way, shape or form possible. It’s not that it’s our responsibility to educate others, but that it behooves us in our own lives to elbow some room out for ourselves.

And that includes laying the burden of guilt down. Preferably on the toes of those that hoisted it onto your back when you weren’t looking. You’re clearly doing the best you can with what you got, and so are many other folks (I think I’m one of ‘em). Problem isn’t our efforts, it’s our lack of resources and options. And the fact that there’s only so many hours in the day, so no…..we can’t exactly start organizing co-ops in our spare time. Or, we do start organizing co-ops, but they don’t get off the ground. Or, there isn’t enough money amongst the group of people that are interested. Or, the co-op was once thriving, but is now falling apart because the folks who did the most to keep it running have slowly been moving out of town, out of state, and the co-op lost the war of attrition.

We read and hear all these great success stories of organizing, yet there aren’t any guidebooks or how-tos or lengthy stories of all the failures that happened before the first drops of success fell on the lips of those involved. It’s discouraging, the level of commitment and time that goes into building grassroots efforts. Folks burn out. And I’m not kidding about the moving; a huge amount of base knowledge and momentum are lost when key people relocate. So yeah, I’m not about to be all pollyanna about any movement.

I just wanna keep some kinda forward motion going, that’s all. I am gonna keep my hand in, or my voice in, or whatever the hell I can scrape up to deliver, because no movement is going to act in my interest without my presence. At best, my concerns will be ignored.

there is no “feminist lens.” from what i know, there are different lenses used by women who claim to be feminists.

sorry. let me change that to “there are different lenses used by people who claim to be feminists.” after all, i do know some men self-identify as Feminists.

and on the “move on” thing, well. its true that so much good stuff comes out of people discussing, so i take that back. i guess i mean i’ve said all i can really say on it. at least for now.

this is meant to be mostly about mass-distro and handling of meat and how industrialization and convenience has polluted our thinking and our foodstores and some related thoughts, it’s true. i wander when i write often, i like to. but regardless, i’m talking about people, not women. i see some people assuming the weight of any change is on women. i dont understand why it would have to be that way. i do see why it would be wise to keep these dangers in mind, though. but knowing of potential design flaws is no reason not to try and build a new fantastic invention.

we (and i mean US humans, i mean me, not you, not “women”) are in many ways very spoiled. yes, i do think so. i do think our laziness and greed and ignorance is the root of many ills. common every day ignorance, and yes larger ignorances. i don’t claim i am free of all of them. that is never my take. and you dont have to feel the same way if you do not want. we each will live and talk springing from a place of our own belief and experience. i’m sure the overlap can provide a good place for others to make up their minds, all our overlaps. it helps to approach in a spirit of cooperation.

i understand a woman has a lot, in general, to be wary of in today’s society, and that there are very good reasons to be angry. i have many similar feelings and suspicions of the dominant culture and its spokespeople. but you will find no fight with me. and you misinterpret my role or stance or approach. i’m not here to “teach women” anything. just writing the way i do. when jill asked me to write here, she didn’t ask me to take courses on Feminism, or to be adept in any paradigm. she said to write as i always do. i am. you are free to criticize it as you are. so all is cool.

there is no “feminist lens.” from what i know, there are different lenses used by women who claim to be feminists. and they do differ in approach and thought. on my personal “feminist credentials,” i do’nt claim any. many of my online friends are. in fact, many of my online friends are women of color feminists, and i have learned a lot about both their brands of feminism as well as “white mainstream feminism,” and again the overlap on my own journeys is very enriching to me. i still don’ think that educates me to the extent you intend. my wife is a feminist, as i said. and i listen to her on many things, she has taught me a lot over the years. i am sur ei dont know enough about Feminism to please you, but i’m happy with my efforts.

this doesnt have to be about me, though. if my ideas don’t work for you, as i said, move on. if they do, take something from it. overall, i think you are misreading what i mean to say in a few areas. but then again, i do feel i understand most of your concerns in the areas you mention.

on peanut butter, “nasty” is clearly a relative value on which you and i happen to disagree. :)

I’ve had some very delicious freshly-ground peanut butter before.

Are you listening to a word I’m saying? Seriously? If it doesn’t come in my CSA box, I get it from a corporate grocery store, because those are my only two delivery options. I can’t get freshly-ground peanut butter, because they don’t have it at the corporate grocery store. I use Jiff or Skippy or Peter Pan, because Jiff, Skippy and Peter Pan are what’s available to me. You use good peanut butter, and I use bad peanut butter. This is not because you’re good and I’m bad. This is because I have limited food options and you don’t, or at least your limitations are not the same as mine. Although actually, I’ve never had “natural” peanut butter that didn’t taste nasty to me.

I certainly don’t mean to heap the anger and derision and “shame” upon you you seem to take from this.

I don’t know if you’ve bothered to learn anything about feminism before posting on this feminist blog, but if you had, I think you’d realize that criticism of women’s cooking, housekeeping, child-raising and eating habits are never neutral. When you go there, you tap into a vast well of shame. Whatever we do, it is never enough. Our greediness, selfishness, laziness is always responsible for every last one of society’s ills. It is our personal responsibility to fix all those ills, by working harder, shopping more carefully, taking fewer shortcuts, being more careful and aware. We are spoiled. We are selfish. We are trash. We forget that For Every Shortcut There is a Cost, and it’s being paid by someone who counts, unlike us. And the second that any man does the slightest bit of the shit that we’re expected to do every day, on top of everything else, just because we’re women… well, he’s a fucking hero, as well as an instant expert. You have so much to teach women who have spent the past fifteen years doing every domestic task you do, as well as commuting two hours a day and working forty hours a week!

I think there’s a lot of good stuff in what you wrote. I think this is a huge problem. But I think it’s really wrong to talk about this stuff without applying a feminist lens. If you apply a feminist lens, you realize that this problem is tied intimately to the massive burdens on women’s time and you recognize that it can only be fixed by addressing fundamental gender imbalances, as well as other issues in our society. Otherwise, it slips seamlessly into the old blaming the selfish bitches pattern, which we’ve seen a million times over the past couple of centuries.

And yes, the fat Ronald McDonald is entirely offensive.

I take shortcuts, too, my friend. I think I know why shortcuts exist. I certainly don’t mean to heap the anger and derision and “shame” upon you you seem to take from this. I don’t think we need to fill up with negative energy or anger to make change, although sometimes it helps to get moving.

If you feel you are doing the best you can in your life, and this post does nothing to move your thoughts in an area that is helpful to you, I say ignore it.

I’ve had some very delicious freshly-ground peanut butter before. Amazing how tasty it can be when the peanut taste and texture really comes through, and it’s not some blend of sugars and emulsifiers and peanuts and who knows what else. I have nothing against good peanut butter!

I’ll admit, I don’t always see the issue of food being a burden for women to bear, because I’m a single mama—there is no other person to take on the load of cooking, anyway.

I’m single, too, and I’m responsible for my own food preparation. And I guess that’s actually what’s pissing me off here. I know how to cook. I actually really love to cook. But cooking doesn’t always work for me. For one thing, I don’t have air-conditioning, and when it’s 85 degrees in the shade, I’m not going to do much cooking. But also, I know I harp about disability stuff, but food has really been my number one issue since I got sick. It is really incredibly hard to feed myself, to the point where I was skipping meals and losing weight. Getting to the grocery store was difficult. Getting around in the grocery store was incredibly difficult. Getting my groceries home from the grocery store was making me miserable. The farmer’s market is nearly impossible, because it’s really only accessible to those with a car or a bike. I’m usually up to at least rudimentary cooking, but sometimes I’m not. And while I’ve tried really hard to freeze meals on good days to save them for bad, sometimes it just isn’t happening.

When I realized that this situation was out of control, I decided that I would have to resort to solutions that smack of “convenience.” I get groceries delivered. I’m incredibly lucky to have found a CSA that will deliver to my door, but it needs to be supplemented, so I get groceries delivered from a huge, soulless supermarket conglomerate. It may be lazy and immoral and greedy and evil to shop at the evil conglomerate, but it means that I eat three times a day. I don’t cook much in the summer: I assemble salads, I slap together sandwiches, and I get my protein from canned tuna and canned beans and other processed foods. On days when I’m not up to cooking, I make myself a peanut butter sandwich. It’s not ideal, but it’s calories, and it keeps me alive.

Nez thinks that people like me take shortcuts because we’re greedy or ignorant. We don’t realize that there are consequences for our shortcuts, and we don’t realize that something done slowly is better than something done quickly. We use “convenience” foods because we’re just not as enlightened and moral as him. And I think that’s bullshit. I mean, it’s not entirely bullshit: there certainly are people who are ignorant about cooking. But I think that American women use convenience food because a lot of us are stretched to the breaking point, for one reason or another. I think we’re losing cultural memory about cooking because we’ve now been stretched to the breaking point for a generation. And I’m sick to death of people using moralizing language about this phenomenon, as if the problem here is just that “people” (which is to say women) are just too shitty to cook well. I know that my peanut butter sandwich is not a substitute for a home cooked meal using locally sourced, in-season, organic produce. But I’m hanging on by my fingertips here, and I don’t need to be shamed for not doing pull-ups. I really think that most of us, at an individual level, are doing the absolute best we can, and it would be nice if we could move away from the language of personal guilt.

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Melanie, I understand your point. And I believe artists have always (and will always) use extreme obesity as a symbol of Gluttony. It makes visual and mental sense. Just as one would use a gaunt figure to represent Famine. I’m sorry you don’t appreciate its use.