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Jill has been blogging for Feministe since 2005.
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14 Responses

  1. Nakanja
    Nakanja August 11, 2007 at 2:54 pm |

    Girls are in a tough spot when it comes to modesty. They are called by God to dress modestly, but because they aren’t born with the same “visual nature” in their sexuality as guys are, it is difficult for women to spot where modesty begins and ends. Where are the boundaries? What trips a guy’s trigger, and what doesn’t?

    Okay, so God tells women to dress modestly…

    As guys, we complicate it further by carelessly sinking to our own lowest levels sexually. Our visual nature first forces God to call women to modesty, depriving them of their freedom to define their own style of dress.

    …and this is because men *force* God to do so. So the hierarchy they believe in seems to be Man > God > Woman.

  2. Vanessa
    Vanessa August 11, 2007 at 3:40 pm |

    the author does a pretty good job of dispelling the notion that Muslim women who wear the hijab are passive and oppressed. She’s pretty badass, and definitely aggressive, which I can certainly appreciate.

    I believe I mentioned this when you posted this the first time (or on some other similar post) but I’ve literally never met a Muslima who fit the meek stereotype. All the Muslim women I’ve met (and granted, I’ve only met Muslimas living in the US, so maybe that’s a difference) have been kind of sparkplug pepperpots. I don’t know where the stereotype comes from.

  3. Hector B.
    Hector B. August 11, 2007 at 3:48 pm |

    but I’ve literally never met a Muslima who fit the meek stereotype

    Similarly, I would — just once — like to meet a submissive Asian woman. Every one I’ve known has been beyond assertive.

  4. Christina
    Christina August 11, 2007 at 4:09 pm |

    It’s very nice and neat: If you don’t dress modestly, you are a brainless slut who doesn’t know what you are “asking for”. If you do dress modestly, you are a brainless victim who doesn’t know that you are a walking billboard for oppression and what is Wrong With Those People.

    Either way, you are brainless. Nice.

  5. Hot Tramp
    Hot Tramp August 11, 2007 at 4:25 pm |

    So the hierarchy they believe in seems to be Man > God > Woman.

    Pretty terrifying, isn’t it?

    Like God is sitting around going, “Well, I guess I could give men a modicum of self-control … but instead, I’ll force the women to cover up the stuff I made so luscious and irresistible.”

    … Riiiiight.

  6. Janis
    Janis August 11, 2007 at 6:10 pm |

    AFAIC, if men can’t control their eyeballs, then put the fabric where it belongs — around their eyes. Blindfold `em. Like Golda Meir said, if they’re the problem, then constrain THEM.

    If they can behave themselves, then fine. They get to SEE. If they can’t, and if they admit to not being able to control themselves, blindfold time. I wonder how many men who “can’t help it” would suddenly be ABLE to help it if they would be nonviolently blinded otherwise.

  7. Activist Mommy
    Activist Mommy August 11, 2007 at 8:50 pm |

    [...] of info came across my inbox today thanks to Google. The first was a plea from Jill of Feministe to stop obsessing about what women wear. Women’s bodies are politicized enough as it is. I’m sure I’m not the only one who’s [...]

  8. StarStorm
    StarStorm August 12, 2007 at 6:14 am |

    Exactly Janis.

    Men do have self-control. If they’re not willing to use it, that’s THEIR problem.

    That said, I like your solution.

  9. Doctress Julia
    Doctress Julia August 12, 2007 at 12:56 pm |

    “# Hector B. Says:
    August 11th, 2007 at 3:48 pm

    but I’ve literally never met a Muslima who fit the meek stereotype

    Similarly, I would — just once — like to meet a submissive Asian woman. Every one I’ve known has been beyond assertive.”

    Yeah, Hector, I bet you would.

  10. Janis
    Janis August 12, 2007 at 3:13 pm |

    Men do have self-control. If they’re not willing to use it, that’s THEIR problem.

    Yup. Use of self-control for men has just got to be incentivized.

    Control yourself, or be blinded. Nonviolently, with no damage to yourself. I mean, we’re not vicious, here. We wouldn’t do anything like … oh … BINDING YOUR FACE to prevent your eyes from developing or ever working correctly again. I mean, that’s CRAZY TALK! Who’d do something like that?

  11. Farhat
    Farhat August 12, 2007 at 10:13 pm |

    Yea, Muslim women are oh-so-assertive and well respected. Why there’s only a couple of thousand documented honor killings these days and just 40 or so countries where honor killings are recognized as okay by law.

  12. Aman
    Aman August 13, 2007 at 12:15 am |

    Yes, Farhat, it’s women’s fault that they’re oppressed and killed by men on the pretense of preserving their honor and purity, men with motivations nothing like the ones criticized in the post. Why do these crazy feminists criticize our right-thinking Christian brothers when they could be blaming murder victims and demonstrating how it is a shared character flaw of all Muslim women that is at fault for the violence that has been done to them. No one could argue with your crack statistics.

  13. Vanessa
    Vanessa August 13, 2007 at 3:13 pm |

    Yea, Muslim women are oh-so-assertive and well respected.

    Well, they certainly are in the community where I was raised as a Muslim (now atheist).

    Why there’s only a couple of thousand documented honor killings these days and just 40 or so countries where honor killings are recognized as okay by law.

    I’m willing to be the counties you’re talking about are theocratic totalitarian regimes. I live in a city with a large Muslim population and there have never been any ‘honor killings.’ There are, in fact, many Muslima professionals – doctors, lawyers, businesswomen – , some who wear hijab and some who don’t. So, maybe the problem is not with Muslim women but with theocratic totalitarian regimes?

    Just a thought.

    Related anecdote: I know a woman who is a dentist. She is Pakistani, Muslim, married with a child. She complained to me once that whenever people hear she’s a dentist, they always ask the same 3 questions.

    You’re a dental assistant?

    No, I’m a dentist with my own practice.

    Oh. So you came to America to learn to be a dentist?

    No, I went to school in Pakistan.

    Really? In Pakistan?

    *sigh*

  14. Caroline
    Caroline May 23, 2008 at 2:25 pm |

    i seriously dont get y any1 would dress modestly unless they were fat or flatchested or something. i mean like, i dont think everyone should run around topless and in a thong, but if you have stuff 2 show, y not show it? i do, and im not raped everytime i go outside, im not “truly unhappy on the inside”, im not addicted 2 anythinhg, im pretty popular, i have a hot boyfriend, and i bet im alot happier than the loser that dresses in a floorlenght skirt and a turtle neck.

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