Comments on: Make a baby, win a car

By: I like to think I’m not easily flustered, BUT « Natalia Antonova

I like to think I’m not easily flustered, BUT « Natalia Antonova — Sun, 16 Sep 2007 22:15:27 +0000

[...] Jump to Comments Jill’s re-naming of Russia’s “National Conception Day” as “National Russians Fuck Like Cold, Pale Rabbits In Furry Hats Day” was pretty damn silly. Maybe I’m still smarting over the “when you all die out” [...]

By: other orange

other orange — Sat, 15 Sep 2007 15:05:54 +0000

Amanda:

…do you think the government is out of line if they encourage condom use to stop disease?

Italics mine. Just saying. In the past, I’ve rarely found Amanda to be enthusiastic about shaming women in general. Ever.

By: Raincitygirl

Raincitygirl — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 20:46:24 +0000

Also, a fairly significant minority of the children in Russian orphanages have Fetal Alcohol Syndrome or Fetal Alcohol Effect. It’s much more of a problem than in most other countries which place children for international adoption. Those kids are not generally considered adoptable. [cynical] For Westerners willing to spend a lot of money and go all the way to Russia to get a white baby, I think they’d want a healthy one. [/cynical]

By: Boris Ivanov

Boris Ivanov — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 19:55:10 +0000

First of all, you need a lot of middle class people willing to adopt. Russia don’t have that much. Second, this is not a solution, because orphans are part of the population. Russia declining population statistics includes orphans. Third, it is not easy to adopt Russian child into Russian family, because corrupt officials prefer to sell children to Europe and USA. For bribes and stuff. So, one has to outbid foreigners. Which is not easy for Russian middle class families.

By: Olivia

Olivia — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 18:05:09 +0000

Maybe I’m misinformed, but I was under the impression the orphanages of Russia are filled beyond capacity, due largely to alcoholism and poverty. I have heard many stories about abused and abandoned orphans in the former Soviet Union. So, I’m wondering why these children aren’t being adopted by other Russians and why that isn’t considered a solution to the population problem?

By: Elaine Vigneault

Elaine Vigneault — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 16:52:00 +0000

Orange,
Amanda is suggesting using pressure and shame, not encouragement.

I think suggesting and encouraging contraception is fine, but as feminists it’s not our job to provide free marketing for Big Pharma. And we ought to be far more concerned with providing women with education and options than pressure and shame.
We MUST stop acting like we know what’s best for other women’s bodies. We have to get out of the bedrooms and out of the vaginas.

By: other orange

other orange — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:43:27 +0000

Who are you to say what’s a more dramatic infringement upon someone else’s body?

I’d argue that suggesting and encouraging the use of condoms is actually not an infringement on anyone’s rights or body. It is, after all, just encouragement. And as far as the “immorality” of condoms, I can accept that others might feel that way; but I fully and strongly support a continued push for condom use and awareness. Condom use saves lives, which I think is pretty moral.

By: other orange

other orange — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 15:33:34 +0000

I think there’s definitely a chance for dialogue about noncoercive, entirely voluntary changes to combat overpopulation. One thing that comes up again and again is better education for women. Better general education and better sex education- free and nonjudgemental birth control, and information about every type. Plus, as somebody else mentioned, the male pill. New types of birth control, better health care, all leading to increased choice and autonomy for women.

I think that these are culturally sensitive ways to talk about this; I certainly don’t think we should stop talking about overpopulation altogether.

By: Boris Ivanov

Boris Ivanov — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 13:23:31 +0000

Ulyanovsk is not a town full of middle class families. It is a desperate place ruled by gangs and plagued by depression. Even by Russian standarts it is a bit of hellhole. ^_^ So, mayor tries to cheer up the citisens by announcing that the state cares about children and supports families. It is obviously bullshit – a good face for a bad game. So, it is not a big deal, just PR-crap.

As for immigrants, they are not crazy. They will not go to Ulyanovsk. So, either Ulyanovsk will find the way to procreate or it will die out. It is a birthplace of Lenin, BTW. Not-so-instant karma…

By: Paddy Mac

Paddy Mac — Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:01:44 +0000

Just to play devil’s advocate here, and toss out a few ideas:

Russia is the world’s largest country by area. It has a middling-sized population, which is in steep decline. It has suffered many ruinous invasions, and has a long border with the world’s most populous country. Any country with that profile might start exhibiting odd behaviors regarding population issues.

The Bolsheviks (as modern Russians refer to the regime which ruled from 1917 — 1991) made a religion out of industrial production. Their country would produce, produce, produce, dammit, no matter what the final cost. The Soviet Union ultimately became the world’s biggest producer of steel, industrial chemicals, and the like, while the population waited for the rewards of their labors. It ultimately suffered economic collapse, in part from this emphasis on heavy industrial production. But old habits die hard.

Russians see themselves as heirs to a very long and proud cultural history. Muscovites are well-used to having foreigners (this writer included) rave about the fantastic art and architecture of their city. Yet, they argue repeatedly about whether to keep their distinctive alphabet, or adopt ours. Their bold experiment in politics failed, while ours seems to have succeeded. Russia, not America, defeated Nazi Germany, but somehow the Americans and the Germans have had it easier than the Russians. Why should those countries have robust populations, while Russia’s dwindles?

I’m not picking on that nation, of course; I’m just showing how irrational human attitudes are towards sex and procreation, and how that profound irrationality can alter a nation’s viewpoint. (Has anyone here tried to explain our own thirty-year-plus Cold Civil War over reproductive freedom to a non-American? Talk about irrationality!)