But American society in general has a huge fear of aging which, I suspect, is a cover for an even bigger fear of death.

I think the societal fear involved in this situation is the fear that women who have become mothers may decide not to remove themselves from society solely to care for their husbands and children. Refusing to buy in to plastic surgery trends is part of this. If a woman rejects beauty ideals, continues to work and have a public life, while also being a wife and mother, then she is a very scary thing to the patriarchal notion that women who have become wives and mothers are done in the public sphere.

Mothers are what women often really look like. And even I will say it’s a shame that such things are becoming, apparently, unseemly.

That doesn’t contradict what I said though, which is: “I think only the portion that exceeds what my expectations of men are [is antifeminist], and what my particular one is willing to do for himself and me.”

Women do not expect men to maintain a ‘single, immature and unrealistic body shape.” So, any “mom job” that reflects an expectation to maintain this IS antifeminist per what I said.

What I mean, though, is that expectations of fitness/maintenance for a particular couple aren’t sexist if they are equal. Of course, I allowed that they could be frivolous. If doing five days of cardio to balance a completely sedentary desk job, three days of weights and ab work in the gym, and eating four balanced meals a day leads to an “immature and unrealistic” body shape, then mea culpa. But I think, as Isabel suggests re her discussion of fear of aging, that where a woman and man have equivalent expectations of one another, it’s not per se antifeminist.

This quote is so sadly wrong. The idea that there has ever been a period in human history where your spouse always loved you no matter what (on either side of the gender divide), or the idea that there aren’t husbands now who do love their post-partum wives, sagginess and all.

It relates to feminism rather a lot when women are expected to maintain a single, immature and unrealistic body shape throughout their entire lives, regardless of age, physical ability or childbirth.

I wonder. I mean, yes it relates to feminism. But American society in general has a huge fear of aging which, I suspect, is a cover for an even bigger fear of death. Sometimes (when I’m in the mood for overbroad generalizations, heh) I think this refusal to stare death in the face explains a lot about our culture, from things like “mom jobs” to the high fundamentalist population. There’s a certain denial going on, like if we can shut death out, pretend it isn’t there, it won’t catch us. Reminders of the aging process, which is after all a march towards death, are considered ugly because we are supposed to value youth–as though the inexperience and follies and vanities of youth (said the young’un) are to be more highly valued than the wisdom of the old! Though I suppose if you spend all your time trying not to age, you don’t have much time left to learn.

Seriously, this is such a rarefied demographic. What’s wrong with rich people, anyway, that makes them so fucking shallow?

It relates to feminism rather a lot when women are expected to maintain a single, immature and unrealistic body shape throughout their entire lives, regardless of age, physical ability or childbirth.

I think body maintenance/enhancement is a feminist issue up to the point at which it’s relevant for men too (which “mom jobs” obviously aren’t). I mean, in my case, I require various things of my (male) partner. If I feel motivated to do various things to maintain weight (none of them surgical yet, but never say never), how much of that is a feminist issue? I think only the portion that exceeds what my expectations of men are, and what my particular one is willing to do for himself and me.

Not that all this vanity and superficiality are anything to boast about, but I think it’s worthwhile to parse out how much relates to feminism.

At least they’re recognizing what’s going on.

I’m a mother and a grandmother. I “recognize” what goes on, too. The question is: why is that supposed to be BAD when it’s what has kept the human race going?