I do not consider those who celebrate post-modern nostalgia for the Confederacy of their ancestors my countrymen.

It’s in the opening post. “Perhaps it *is* time to seceed” doesnt’ just imply that the problem is about regions of the country collectively. It does so explicitly. And in the first 23 responses, only one person bothers to say that political geography is more complex than the regionalism invoked. Throughout those critical 23 responses the problem is described in terms of states, counties, hinterlands and the solution is described in terms of “city-states” and “megalopolis.” There are only two oblique mentions of congressmen, and nothing that calls out Trancreo by name.

About half of those comments were a side-discussion on immigration. And there were a bunch of pretty facetious comments about how cities might eat. Only one person bothered because most people didn´t read into it what you did. That´s because it´s not there. Who exactly is in charge of the laws made in those states, and who is responsible for the tenor of its political discussions? The mailman?

And, I´m sorry, but I do not agree that you were being reasonable. I think you were being unreasonable. Expressing a desire to get the fuck away from horrible red-state legislators who do nothing but demonize cities while gutting them for the sake of political grease–which is what Zuzu was doing–does not pronounce one way or the other on the politics or intellect of their constituents, merely on the harm that those legislators are doing. It doesn´t idenfity a collective problem; it´s just a frustrated gesture towards a broad solution.

She did not say or imply that people in rural areas were all reactionary fools (waves at Lauren). She did not say or imply pretty much any of the things you attributed to her in between calling her a numbskull and a bigot. Again, no one but you needed the cloudcuckooland tenor of these comments made explicit. I´ll eat a slice of Zuzu´s baby meringue pie if anyone up there was being even a little bit serious about seceding, given that it´s about as likely to happen as Junebug learning to sing lieder.

It’s in the opening post. “Perhaps it *is* time to seceed” doesnt’ just imply that the problem is about regions of the country collectively. It does so explicitly. And in the first 23 responses, only one person bothers to say that political geography is more complex than the regionalism invoked. Throughout those critical 23 responses the problem is described in terms of states, counties, hinterlands and the solution is described in terms of “city-states” and “megalopolis.” There are only two oblique mentions of congressmen, and nothing that calls out Trancreo by name.

And yes, I will fully apologize for going over the top and being less than constructive with my responses. But I still consider that my interpretation that regions of the country were being collectively demonized for the statements of congressmen to be reasonable given the flow of discussion prior to my initial post. If we disagree that is a reasonable interpretation, I’m happy to let the issue drop. I think we have a consesus on the issues that really matter, and I don’t want to contribute to the mutual axe-grinding.

But I’ve seen these ‘jokes’ (about seceding) so damn many times and I am sick of them. They paint a whole state with a broad brush and basically imply that we don’t matter. The whole red state-blue state dialog started it, and unfortunately it’s led us to a really divisive mindset.

Even though my state is one of the reddest based on recent elections, there are actually more registered Democrats here than Republicans. I think that there is real value in being here, in working locally to raise awareness of candidates and issues, to mobilize communities with lower representation at the polls. I am as frustrated as ANYONE about the folks we keep electing, and I encounter fundamentalists almost every day- I am NOT defending them!

But these secession jabs just smack of superiority, when we should be trying for solidarity. It doesn’t always come down to red states vs blue states… even Massachusetts has a Mitt Romney. There are progressives everywhere. There are right-wing fundies everywhere. If feminism matters, then every feminist- every woman matters.

I love my home. I work for a better one every day, but I love it, and I hate people who have never been here making assumptions about it.

CBrachyrhynchos, speaking as a proud rural-identified queer, you are making no earthly sense. Reread for comprehension, take a deep breath, and then maybe try again, though I’d rather not encourage you. I mean, fer serious, compadre.

I actually think that people in progressive districts can do a lot by framing how they talk aboout these issues.

Oy.

The day I take diplomacy advice from you is the day I take cunnilingus advice from Dan Savage. You came in here on a throwaway comment, proceeded to attack a whole bunch of things Zuzu never said or implied, e.g., “everyone who lives outside of the urban enclaves is a city-hating republican group-think zombie,” and now that the throwaway nature of the throwaway comment has finally penetrated your iron-plated skull, you´re reduced to arguing that what we didn´t say shouldn´t be said. I know you´re not representative of red-state activism, and I´m glad.

And I’m voicing a frustration with the simultaneous demands and demonization that “red state” activists constantly hear from city dwellers. Demonizing your allies because they failed to deliver a 50% majority vote in the last election is a wonderful ticket for success.

If you can point to where Zuzu did that–you know, actually said one word against anyone who had any stated problem with Tancredo or people like him, wherever these supposed targets happened to live, however they happened to spend their time–I will cede the debate. All you´re doing is conflating her own attack on Tancredo with your creaky hobbyhorse, and it´s ridiculous. It was ridiculous about thirty comments ago.

And don’t blow smoke up my ass about “equal contributions.” I was unaware that Debbs and Chavez had been written out of history, or that the smaller cities where critical civil rights battles were fought had beeen erased from the map. I’ve been fighting long and hard going on 18 years now. There is a heck of a lot more going on in political activism that can’t be dismissed because it failed to yield a majority in a political race.

Who´s blowing smoke up your ass? I´m complaining about your willingness to appropriate one group´s complaints in an effort to punish another. You bootstrapped your own complaints to a struggle that doesn´t track.

I see it as exactly analogous. You have a group with relative privilege in the form of progresive state and municipal legal systems, a strong tax base, and better access to education and information infrastructure. This group is advocating for a policy that will fuck millions of people who rely on what limited federal safety net we have, national activism coalitions, and federal civil rights laws grounded in the 14th Amendment.

I´m with zuzu. What group?

But the original proposal of redlining those areas of the country you didn’t want to live with is an attack on me and mine, just as Tancreo’s generalization are an attack on you and yours.

WHAT ORIGINAL PROPOSAL?????

Jesus Christ.