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	<title>Comments on: Feminist Fat-Hate</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
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		<title>By: littlem</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-137823</link>
		<dc:creator>littlem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:55:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-137823</guid>
		<description>Sorry about the duplication; getting freako error messages from hell.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry about the duplication; getting freako error messages from hell.</p>
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		<title>By: littlem</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-137822</link>
		<dc:creator>littlem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 20:54:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-137822</guid>
		<description>Wriggles, to my observation -- being personally &quot;too skinny&quot; to be accepted as attractive generally in flyover states and &quot;too fat&quot; for the Coasts -- there&#039;s some classism and ideology, although I don&#039;t think always necessarily conscious, mixed in there.

You see, if you&#039;re an educated leftie, you figure out nutrition and the biochemical changes of exercise-generated mitochondria when you get your book learnin&#039; on at teh librarriz.

If you&#039;re a Red-Stater you sit on your butt in front of teh teeveez with ur Cheetoz and pack on teh poundz.

It also conflates with working feminists being professional women and therefore having to be thin in the workplace to have an &quot;accepted&quot; and &quot;professional&quot; appearance.

I&#039;m too lazy to look up the studies (teh stereotypz theh burn ZOMG!1!) but there are some about how women with &quot;too much bosom&quot; are not seen as sufficiently &quot;professional&quot; in the workplace; that a B cup is just enough.

(We&#039;re Puritan enough as a society that I don&#039;t even think I&#039;ve seen any studies on women with &quot;too much butt&quot;; it smacks of analysis of ethnographic body types and we&#039;re just not gonna go there.)

It&#039;s all very subtle, and very Puritan and Calvinist -- and extremely anti-feminist.

But I don&#039;t think a lot of feminists want to think about it; either b/c they think it doesn&#039;t affect them directly (and therefore apply the thought process described above of thin women telling larger women tired of the constant abuse being hurled at them &quot;what about teh SKINNYZ?!&quot;), or just because it&#039;s extremely uncomfortable to have to consider ...

... being an Educated Progressive Feminist and all.

And after all, it&#039;s the &lt;i&gt;correct&lt;/i&gt; train of thought.  After all, if those Red Staters just got up off the couch and stopped eating Cheetos and got their heads out of their Bibles and went for a walk once in a while, they&#039;d be &lt;i&gt;thin&lt;/i&gt;, like &lt;i&gt;us&lt;/i&gt;, right?

Right???

Officially OT:  I&#039;m not sure how I missed this debate.  But wasn&#039;t this asshat profiled already some months ago?  Hasn&#039;t he had enough press?

Jill, thank you for calling attention to the issue.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wriggles, to my observation &#8212; being personally &#8220;too skinny&#8221; to be accepted as attractive generally in flyover states and &#8220;too fat&#8221; for the Coasts &#8212; there&#8217;s some classism and ideology, although I don&#8217;t think always necessarily conscious, mixed in there.</p>
<p>You see, if you&#8217;re an educated leftie, you figure out nutrition and the biochemical changes of exercise-generated mitochondria when you get your book learnin&#8217; on at teh librarriz.</p>
<p>If you&#8217;re a Red-Stater you sit on your butt in front of teh teeveez with ur Cheetoz and pack on teh poundz.</p>
<p>It also conflates with working feminists being professional women and therefore having to be thin in the workplace to have an &#8220;accepted&#8221; and &#8220;professional&#8221; appearance.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m too lazy to look up the studies (teh stereotypz theh burn ZOMG!1!) but there are some about how women with &#8220;too much bosom&#8221; are not seen as sufficiently &#8220;professional&#8221; in the workplace; that a B cup is just enough.</p>
<p>(We&#8217;re Puritan enough as a society that I don&#8217;t even think I&#8217;ve seen any studies on women with &#8220;too much butt&#8221;; it smacks of analysis of ethnographic body types and we&#8217;re just not gonna go there.)</p>
<p>It&#8217;s all very subtle, and very Puritan and Calvinist &#8212; and extremely anti-feminist.</p>
<p>But I don&#8217;t think a lot of feminists want to think about it; either b/c they think it doesn&#8217;t affect them directly (and therefore apply the thought process described above of thin women telling larger women tired of the constant abuse being hurled at them &#8220;what about teh SKINNYZ?!&#8221;), or just because it&#8217;s extremely uncomfortable to have to consider &#8230;</p>
<p>&#8230; being an Educated Progressive Feminist and all.</p>
<p>And after all, it&#8217;s the <i>correct</i> train of thought.  After all, if those Red Staters just got up off the couch and stopped eating Cheetos and got their heads out of their Bibles and went for a walk once in a while, they&#8217;d be <i>thin</i>, like <i>us</i>, right?</p>
<p>Right???</p>
<p>Officially OT:  I&#8217;m not sure how I missed this debate.  But wasn&#8217;t this asshat profiled already some months ago?  Hasn&#8217;t he had enough press?</p>
<p>Jill, thank you for calling attention to the issue.</p>
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		<title>By: wriggles</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-137692</link>
		<dc:creator>wriggles</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:37:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-137692</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m not going to thank anyone if you don&#039;t min- I wonder what Zuzu has to say on all this fat gratitude. What are people so grateful for exactly? If raginfem is to be dismissed as a troll (with mental health issues to boot) Why the gratitude? It&#039;s because raginfem represents plenty of feminist, troll or no. To pretend that fat hate has got nothing to do with feminism is a lie.

So feminists are finally waking up to the fact that fat WOMEN might actually know more about their bodies than anyone else, oh wait, isn&#039;t that supposed to be an idea central to feminism? That women are sentient human beings in there own right and not puppets of patriarchal authority, even if that authority is pimping science (and prompoting pseudoscience) to achieve this?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not going to thank anyone if you don&#8217;t min- I wonder what Zuzu has to say on all this fat gratitude. What are people so grateful for exactly? If raginfem is to be dismissed as a troll (with mental health issues to boot) Why the gratitude? It&#8217;s because raginfem represents plenty of feminist, troll or no. To pretend that fat hate has got nothing to do with feminism is a lie.</p>
<p>So feminists are finally waking up to the fact that fat WOMEN might actually know more about their bodies than anyone else, oh wait, isn&#8217;t that supposed to be an idea central to feminism? That women are sentient human beings in there own right and not puppets of patriarchal authority, even if that authority is pimping science (and prompoting pseudoscience) to achieve this?</p>
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		<title>By: Feministe &#187; Rejecting the frames</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-137652</link>
		<dc:creator>Feministe &#187; Rejecting the frames</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:13:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-137652</guid>
		<description>[...] recently wrote a terrific post taking feminist fat-haters to task. She was responding to the comments at this post at Feministing, in which the point of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recently wrote a terrific post taking feminist fat-haters to task. She was responding to the comments at this post at Feministing, in which the point of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rejecting the frames at Kindly Póg Mo Thóin</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-137649</link>
		<dc:creator>Rejecting the frames at Kindly Póg Mo Thóin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Nov 2007 04:09:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-137649</guid>
		<description>[...] recently wrote a terrific post taking feminist fat-haters to task. She was responding to the comments at this post at Feministing, in which the point of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recently wrote a terrific post taking feminist fat-haters to task. She was responding to the comments at this post at Feministing, in which the point of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Amanda</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-136788</link>
		<dc:creator>Amanda</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Nov 2007 02:49:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-136788</guid>
		<description>Thank you Jill.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thank you Jill.</p>
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		<title>By: Mnemosyne</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-136377</link>
		<dc:creator>Mnemosyne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 23:39:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-136377</guid>
		<description>By the way, for women who&#039;d like to go to a gym but don&#039;t want to have to deal with the &quot;anti-gym&quot; types, see if you have an all-women&#039;s gym anywhere nearby.  They tend to be a little more accepting of a range of ages and body sizes than co-ed gyms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>By the way, for women who&#8217;d like to go to a gym but don&#8217;t want to have to deal with the &#8220;anti-gym&#8221; types, see if you have an all-women&#8217;s gym anywhere nearby.  They tend to be a little more accepting of a range of ages and body sizes than co-ed gyms.</p>
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		<title>By: Tobes</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-136351</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 20:18:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-136351</guid>
		<description>Jill, thank you for posting this. I am constantly amazed at your empathy and kindness towards the &#039;fat&#039; issue because I look at someone like you (very beautiful and thin) and you are just what society approves of-- and yet, you see this and call bullshit and have real respect for fat people without sounding condescending. You are a kick-ass feminist. I *HEART* feministe!

I think the anti-gym in and of itself is very sexist. It&#039;s not about healthy women, it&#039;s about women that can be objectified sexually:

http://tobestalks.blogspot.com/2007/11/anti-gym-seems-kinda-anti-woman.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jill, thank you for posting this. I am constantly amazed at your empathy and kindness towards the &#8216;fat&#8217; issue because I look at someone like you (very beautiful and thin) and you are just what society approves of&#8211; and yet, you see this and call bullshit and have real respect for fat people without sounding condescending. You are a kick-ass feminist. I *HEART* feministe!</p>
<p>I think the anti-gym in and of itself is very sexist. It&#8217;s not about healthy women, it&#8217;s about women that can be objectified sexually:</p>
<p><a href="http://tobestalks.blogspot.com/2007/11/anti-gym-seems-kinda-anti-woman.html" rel="nofollow">http://tobestalks.blogspot.com/2007/11/anti-gym-seems-kinda-anti-woman.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: prairielily</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-136341</link>
		<dc:creator>prairielily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 19:34:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-136341</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;What drives me crazy is when people interrupt fat women talking (in feminist circles) to say “Thin women get made fun of just as much as fat women.” or complain that fat feminists don’t sympathize with the problems of being thin.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I have done this, when I first started posting, but it was in response to comments about &quot;skinny bitches,&quot; and the like. It&#039;s ridiculous to call a fat person lazy, and it&#039;s ridiculous to call a thin person an untrustworthy bitch. But you&#039;re right, it&#039;s not about me. It&#039;s just a variation on &quot;What about teh MENZ?!!&quot; and I understand that now. I just wanted to explain myself.

&lt;blockquote&gt;Why does everything in those stores stop at size “L,” which is really about Size 14, or maybe at an occasional, ugly, grayish “XL” (aka size 16) on the sale rack?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not only that, but why are sports bras for well-endowed women so freaking expensive and hard to find? It just makes it more financially out of reach for poor women. Even going up and down stairs is good exercise, if you&#039;re not holding your breasts in place the whole time because of the painful bouncing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>What drives me crazy is when people interrupt fat women talking (in feminist circles) to say “Thin women get made fun of just as much as fat women.” or complain that fat feminists don’t sympathize with the problems of being thin.</p></blockquote>
<p>I have done this, when I first started posting, but it was in response to comments about &#8220;skinny bitches,&#8221; and the like. It&#8217;s ridiculous to call a fat person lazy, and it&#8217;s ridiculous to call a thin person an untrustworthy bitch. But you&#8217;re right, it&#8217;s not about me. It&#8217;s just a variation on &#8220;What about teh MENZ?!!&#8221; and I understand that now. I just wanted to explain myself.</p>
<blockquote><p>Why does everything in those stores stop at size “L,” which is really about Size 14, or maybe at an occasional, ugly, grayish “XL” (aka size 16) on the sale rack?</p></blockquote>
<p>Not only that, but why are sports bras for well-endowed women so freaking expensive and hard to find? It just makes it more financially out of reach for poor women. Even going up and down stairs is good exercise, if you&#8217;re not holding your breasts in place the whole time because of the painful bouncing.</p>
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		<title>By: Meowser</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-136331</link>
		<dc:creator>Meowser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 09 Nov 2007 18:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2007/11/08/feminist-fat-hate/#comment-136331</guid>
		<description>Jill, thank you so much for this.  I&#039;ll be leaving a post to thank Jessica too.  I mean, the propaganda out there really is five inches thick, if there&#039;s anyone on a feminist blog who is actually a feminist and thinks it&#039;s perfectly fine to show an ad on TV and radio telling fat women they&#039;re disgusting and shoving cakes in their faces and potraying them as being dumped by their husbands for thin models (and taking the dog too!) simply because of their weight.  And truly, I&#039;m less disgusted that the commercial was made -- there are all kinds of kooks out there making all kinds of sicko stuff, after all -- than the fact that major media outlets thought it was suitable to air.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jill, thank you so much for this.  I&#8217;ll be leaving a post to thank Jessica too.  I mean, the propaganda out there really is five inches thick, if there&#8217;s anyone on a feminist blog who is actually a feminist and thinks it&#8217;s perfectly fine to show an ad on TV and radio telling fat women they&#8217;re disgusting and shoving cakes in their faces and potraying them as being dumped by their husbands for thin models (and taking the dog too!) simply because of their weight.  And truly, I&#8217;m less disgusted that the commercial was made &#8212; there are all kinds of kooks out there making all kinds of sicko stuff, after all &#8212; than the fact that major media outlets thought it was suitable to air.</p>
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