I think you just redeemed yourself.

Matt’s post on the wacky world of anti-feminist blogging is good. Not surprisingly, the comments section basically turns into an illustration of the post’s title. Didja know that feminists are all ugly bitter bitches? Enlightening stuff! But I think my favorite comment has to be this:

The reason that I think Amanda Marcotte is unattractive probably has less to do with any objective feature of her looks and more to do with her as yet unrepentant blasphemies towards the Blessed Mother of God. I’m sorry, but I don’t find blasphemy at all attractive.

Blaspheming the Blessed Mother of God always kills my boner, too. (No wonder I’m still single!)

Also check out Matt’s favorite runner-up for the Golden Wingnut Award — the man who wrote a post titled “Anglo Women are an endangered species.” It only goes downhill from there. A taste:

Female persons have noticed that men greet each other by shaking hands, so now all female persons want to shake hands, too. Equality at last! I’ve got some bad news for them: men don’t shake the hands of female persons the way they shake each other’s hands. Men use a very strong grip; it’s a way of communicating health, strength, vitality and to some extent virility. A man with a very weak grip is suspect. In the old days, a weak grip implied that he was gay. Now it just means he’s a wimp. Regardless, a man with a weak grip will not get the respect he’d get if his grip was strong. Thus has it always been, though it’s not often talked about.

If I used that same grip on a woman’s hand that I use on a man, she’d probably scream from the pain, for I am quite capable of crushing her hand, and that’s the degree of strength I routinely use when I shake the hand of another man.

Truly incredible.

48 comments for “I think you just redeemed yourself.

  1. November 13, 2007 at 9:26 pm

    One of these days, Men’s News Daily will be revealed as some gigantic Onion- or Landover Baptist-style hoax, and we’ll all have a good, nervous twitter about it.

    And I’ll have a talk with Amanda about Mary, if only to save her from a life overrun by cats.

  2. November 13, 2007 at 9:41 pm

    Well, the reason I think Amanda Marcotte is unattractive? Because Rivers Cuomo is a sexist pig.

    Oh no wait. That’s why I don’t like Weezer. But you gotta admit, it makes about as much sense.

  3. preying mantis
    November 13, 2007 at 10:00 pm

    Wasn’t deliberately giving a bone-crusher handshake officially declared a Dick Move and punishable by macing and/or dog-kicking like, twenty years ago?

  4. harlemjd
    November 13, 2007 at 10:02 pm

    whatev. if a childhood of my brother trying to break every bone in my hand shaking it didn’t do the job, you’re not going to either, he-man.

  5. j swift
    November 13, 2007 at 10:02 pm

    Why did he stop there? The macho hand shaker should have just rolled out the bit about the hand shake showing an empty hand (peaceful intentions), you know, instead of a dagger or sword to gut you.

    Now that is fucking manly.

  6. November 13, 2007 at 10:09 pm

    @harlemjd: I love the assumption he bases that on: female == weaker/smaller than male, even thought the standard deviation is what? 8%?

    Nope, wingnuttery like that doesn’t get the time of day from me. I have better things to do than listen to assumptions that I’m some frail creature. I know better.

  7. November 13, 2007 at 10:14 pm

    Anglo women are an endangered species?

    My God, it’s race suicide all over again. Amazing! I thought that had died out in about 1920.

  8. Karen
    November 13, 2007 at 10:18 pm

    The comments at Matt’s are, truly, horrid.

    That said, and please pardon the threadjack, but I just read this dreadful thing. I can’t seem to draft any kind of comment appropriate as a response to people who think that anti-discrimation laws are a plot by large corporations to stomp out competition. Same thing for safety rules, accessibility for the disabled, and child labor laws. If anyone has the courage, I really wish one of you would respond. Thanks, kjc

  9. Rachel of Cyberia
    November 13, 2007 at 10:42 pm

    Trying to prove his manliness in a handshaking contest? We should bring back jousting.

  10. RacyT
    November 13, 2007 at 11:02 pm

    Make sure to read the whole “anglo women” post… it’s so transparent I’m surprised you can read it without being blinded by monitor glare. That this is not parody is almost too much for me.

  11. alsojill
    November 13, 2007 at 11:29 pm

    I pride myself on having a good, firm handshake, despite the fact that I have (literally) child-sized hands. Never had a problem shaking hands with men, despite their massive paws, until some guy in *church*, during the “passing of the peace,” almost brought me to my knees–and not in a good way. I could literally feel the bones in my hand grinding together, and it took everything I had to keep smiling.

    I wonder if it was the same guy–demonstrating to little female me that my proper place was three steps behind a man with my head bowed.

  12. alsojill
    November 13, 2007 at 11:33 pm

    Having gone to read his post, I see I misjudged our handshaker.

    My proper place wasn’t three steps behind him. It was in his lap, treating him like a “man.”

    Maybe he was trying to bring me to my knees.

  13. evil fizz
    November 13, 2007 at 11:44 pm

    Can someone explain to my why any comment thread about feminist blogging on the political blogs immediately turns into a referendum on Amanda, her appearance, and the tone of her writing?

    It never, ever fails.

  14. bloix
    November 13, 2007 at 11:47 pm

    Are you proposing a corollary to Godwin’s Law?

  15. RKMK
    November 14, 2007 at 12:05 am

    Dear Mr. AngloWomen Are Endangered,

    You are fully welcome to use your might bearpaw to try to bow me into submission. Of course, I will subsequently feel wholly entitled to impale the heel of my stillettos into your crotch at high velocity, trumping your pathetic attempt at establishing dominance, you pathetic fuck.

    No love,

  16. Psychobunny
    November 14, 2007 at 12:13 am

    Godwin’s Law totally needs a corollary for this kind of thing.

    The handshake guy … well, suffice it to say that you can read a lot into his need to emphasise how Awesomely Strong his handshake is.

  17. randomliberal
    November 14, 2007 at 12:24 am

    Re: a corollary to Godwin’s Law concerning Amanda Marcotte,

    Lemieux beat y’all to it a few months back.

  18. tyro
    November 14, 2007 at 1:14 am

    I’m female, and people have told me that I have a strong handshake. In fact, I make a point of it.

    Nice try, Conan, but I could probably bring you to your knees with a well-placed kick. Good meeting you.


  19. November 14, 2007 at 1:26 am

    ok seriously that anglo women post was the most goddamn absurd thing ive ever read. it was the perfect nice guy rant. i want to print it and carry it in my wallet to share with strangers and laugh and laugh. fucking assclown.

  20. November 14, 2007 at 1:36 am

    Ooohh – Awesomely Strong Handshake Guy! You deserve a reward for having such an awesomely strong handshake! Let me shake your hand!

    If he can crush my hand, he deserves the award. My hands are huge and very well exercised. (Piano, organ, knitting, and years of karate) Of course, if he did, I’d probably break his wrist. Pure reflex you understand. It would be completely accidental, and I’d be very, very sorry about it.

  21. November 14, 2007 at 2:08 am

    Stop cockblocking me with yer hatin on jesus!

  22. November 14, 2007 at 2:12 am

    I, too, hurt people when I shake their hands, especially men who give me the wet fish because they think I’m weak on account of my sex.

    Why yes, I do have something to prove.

  23. England Expects
    November 14, 2007 at 6:48 am

    I’m interested by the responses to the handshaking comment above. At the risk of drawing some fire, I think it is safe to assume a woman is likely to be weaker than a man- a quick Google search suggests that the *average* man is 50% stronger than the *average* woman (http://www.ifpa-fitness.com/Resources_articles_womenvs.men.aspx).

    Of course, the original author is being a male chauvinist pig. The initial handshake is important for first impressions, and should be sturdy – it’s (usually taken as) a sign of confidence. However, any businessman that is unable to grasp more concepts than ‘weak grip’ and ‘as-much-strength-as-I-can-muster’ grip probably won’t last very long. Making a bad impression with too strong a grip is as bad as making a bad impression with a weak grip.

    Of course, this applies as much to strong-gripped women as to strong-gripped men.

    In closing, I’d suggest the best response to bone-crushing handshakes from either sex is to simply not give them the business they want. It sends an appropriately business-led, equality-filled message than childish acts of violence.

  24. England Expects
    November 14, 2007 at 6:50 am

    Hmm, please disregard the last 5 words of my previous comment- on reflection, they are inappropriately inflammatory and serve little purpose.


  25. zuzu
    November 14, 2007 at 9:22 am

    Can someone explain to my why any comment thread about feminist blogging on the political blogs immediately turns into a referendum on Amanda, her appearance, and the tone of her writing?


  26. MizDarwin
    November 14, 2007 at 9:51 am

    Old men are usually weaker than young men, too. Old men also are more likely to have control of valuable resources than young men are. So crushing one’s “opponent’s” hand in what is ostensibly a friendly greeting is an adaptive strategy … how?

    But you’ve still got to admire the … something … of a guy who will really, truly pull out the “that stripper really liked me!” line, without irony.

  27. Thomas, TSID
    November 14, 2007 at 11:27 am

    There has to be a whole body of research somewhere about how people are selected as the symbol or champion of the enemy: the left’s fixation on Coulter and Malkin, and the apparent decision by MRAs and antifeminists that Amanda is TEH FEMINIST BLOGGER (while other folks probably perceive other feminist bloggers as the most famous/most respected/most exemplary).

  28. W. Kiernan
    November 14, 2007 at 11:48 am

    God damn, if there’s one thing I hate it’s when some dude pulls that hand-crushing shit on me. It’s a good warning though, when you show up at a job site and you meet a super who does that; it’s pretty likely he’s an asshole and working with him is going to be a big pain in the neck on account of his ego problems.

  29. November 14, 2007 at 11:56 am

    randomliberal @ 17: Maybe, but it wasn’t done the proper way. :)
    The correct etiquette is to ask, Is there there a “law” saying …, and then the answer is either, Yes, …’s law, or (if it’s deemed law-worthy), There is now. In the latter case, the asking party has it attributed to them. You don’t just attribute it to yourself, that’s just bad style. :)

    Not saying that that law might not be much more useful than Godwin’s (which seems to have little use beyond effortlessly identifying those who invoke it as dull).

  30. Jae
    November 14, 2007 at 12:03 pm

    If I used that same grip on a woman’s hand that I use on a man, she’d probably scream from the pain, for I am quite capable of crushing her hand, and that’s the degree of strength I routinely use when I shake the hand of another man.

    Comedian Eddie Izzard correctly identifies this as the “small dick I’ve got a big handshake” handshake :)

  31. meggygurl
    November 14, 2007 at 12:39 pm

    whatev. if a childhood of my brother trying to break every bone in my hand shaking it didn’t do the job, you’re not going to either, he-man.

    Umm word. I had an older brother and tons of male cousins and they would take turns trying to make me cry. I doubt this man is going to bring me to tears with his big manly handshake.

    I loved his crap about how ALL MEN are bigger and stronger then ALL WOMEN. Now, I’m not a big girl, but I can kick some men’s asses. Why? Because having an older brother taught me how to stand up for myself.

    Nice Guys like that make me glad I’m a lesbian. I wonder if thats his problem, he works with lesbians who don’t want him touching them! (Cause aren’t all feminists lesbians?)

  32. November 14, 2007 at 12:46 pm

    That Den Beste post was one of the saddest things I’ve ever read. He’s a guy who obviously never learned to understand women as human beings, and who is now bitter and lonely because of it. And he’s totally unable to make that connection — so he turns his anger outward at the women who won’t be what Japanese cartoons tell him they should be.

    It’s heartbreaking, the flip side of the “feminism means you’ll be lonely with a thousand cats” trope. I feel truly sorry for him.

    Comedian Eddie Izzard correctly identifies this as the “small dick I’ve got a big handshake” handshake :)

    Only men very insecure about a number of things do the crush-the-handshake.

  33. other orange
    November 14, 2007 at 1:38 pm

    I realize as I’m reading this, that the bone-crushing handshake thing is a huge point of anger for me. My mom is a tiny, tiny woman with arthritis and she no longer shakes hands with people, any people, because they have hurt her so many times. Ugh.

  34. sirriamnis
    November 14, 2007 at 1:45 pm

    I’m just going to pretty much echo what several others have said. I really doubt Mr. Manly Hands could make me scream with pain. When people give me the big Crushing Handshake, I give it right back while looking them in the eye and smiling.

    I find it unnerves most of them.

  35. preying mantis
    November 14, 2007 at 1:56 pm

    “I wonder if thats his problem, he works with lesbians who don’t want him touching them! (Cause aren’t all feminists lesbians?)”

    It sounds more like his problem is that he works with a bunch of professionals who are there to do their jobs instead of provide a surrogate social circle. Clearly, feminism is to blame for this as well as lesbianism. And probably also for the downsizing of the coworker who would have totally found him a Latina to marry.

    I have to wonder about the Anglo thing, though. Does he really think that white women are the only ones who don’t care to be thought of as hug-dispensing bipedal cocker spaniels by half the populace?

  36. scott
    November 14, 2007 at 2:10 pm

    Holy shit! The whole hand shake diatribe from the commenter sounds uncannily like the kind of thing Dwight Schrute from the Office would say (shout out to my fellow Office fans!). Both Dwight and the commenter seem blissfully unaware of the element of pseudo wannabe macho self-parody, though. Good times!

  37. November 14, 2007 at 2:42 pm

    Thanks to four years of debate, with handshakes before and after each round, I, too, have a handshake of death. Usually I just stick with “firm”, but I can bust out a death one when necessary.

    There’s also a handy trick where if you think you’re about to be subjected to a handshake of death, you aim to grab the hand so that the unpleasant individual’s pinky is placed behind the ring finger. It’s well-nigh impossible for someone to squeeze hard when their hand is in that position.

  38. bekabot
    November 14, 2007 at 2:54 pm

    You know, I went through the Wayback Machine and read Handshake Guy’s whole post, the pathos whereof literally beggars description.

    (For one thing, Handshake Guy describes himself in it as a middle-aged man who is “dreadfully lonely”, and I don’t think he’s telling a fib.)

    The whole post, BTW, is about 3 pages long, and a cloud of pathos hangs over the whole thing like an aroma over a sacrifice. Geez, poor man.

    So I say to Handshake Guy unaffectedly and without sarcasm: pleez pleez pleez pleez pleeeeeezzz go out and get yourself laid. Obviously the visits to strip clubs alone won’t answer.

    If, in order to get yourself laid, you have to come onto a Hispanic chick (because only she strikes you as “womanly” enough) or if, OTOH, you have to treat a self-designated Female Anglo Person as a person, well then—buck up and man up and get the job done. If you’ve got a degree in engineering, you’ve been through worse.

    I guess it really is not good for a man to be alone—females can handle solitude with much more aplomb. I bet Handshake Guy is a case in point. He only sounds dumb because he’s in a lotta pain. Remove the goad, get him a steady date, and I bet he takes out a subscription to The Nation. But that’s JMO.

  39. November 14, 2007 at 2:57 pm

    England Expects – perhaps I should clarify. I’m not actually making an idle and/or childish threat. What money I make, I make with my hands. I write (typing), play piano/organ, knit for money, teach self-defense and karate. Somebody actively trying to injure my hands is threatening my income. If they’re merely playing big-guy, I’ll just crush back as necessary. If they’re actually trying to injure me, then yes, I think an injurious response is not out of line. I quite literally can’t afford to nurse a sore hand for a week.

    Fortunately, as noted above, I have huge strong hands, and I’ve never needed to give that particular lesson. The experience of other orange’s mother (and my MIL) does show, however, that some men are more than willing to truly hurt their “opponent” in a handshake in order to prove their dominance.

  40. tcupnewt
    November 14, 2007 at 3:17 pm

    I believe this is the relevant one:


  41. Vir Modestus
    November 14, 2007 at 3:49 pm

    For those of you who encounter “handshake of death” type jerks, one thing you can do to make them whimper in abject horror at their failure to master you, is to change your grip slightly. When some jerk puts the squeeze on your hand, simply extend your index finger (or both index and middle if you want) to align it along their wrist. This shifts the position of the bones in your hand and most people can withstand a lot of pressure with a smile.

    Saves you pain and gives the one-up-man-ship jerk a nasty sense of failure.

  42. alsojill
    November 14, 2007 at 6:20 pm

    This shifts the position of the bones in your hand and most people can withstand a lot of pressure with a smile.

    Ooh, good to know! As I said, my hands are too small to return a death grip, simply b/c I can’t get them around most men’s hands, though I do try to grip firmly no matter whose hand I’m shaking. I’ll keep this one in mind next time someone tries to break my hand that way.

  43. maatnofret
    November 14, 2007 at 8:10 pm

    Jae: I also like Izzard’s solution to the overly-firm handshake: Yelling, “Ow! Owwww! You Bastard!” really loudly. Alternately, I try to crush them back (thanks to all that knitting and piano, my hands are quite strong.)

    Jeff Fecke: That is the second comment you’ve made today that made me laugh out loud.

  44. Kevin
    November 14, 2007 at 8:15 pm

    “There are things which women and men can do with each other that female persons never do with male persons.”

    “…the only women in my life were encoded in JPEG.”

    I think those two bits sum this “man’s” neural nightmare of a mind up quite well. Pathetic.

  45. SPotted and Herbaceous Backson
    November 14, 2007 at 9:07 pm

    It’s been some 30 years, but way back when, someone introduced me to a fellow who took my nice firm grip for a challenge. Wasn’t he surprised when I braced my hand in some way–and I am still not sure how–and he just could not collapse it. He said, “You’re mighty strong for a girl,” and I said “Gee, You’re mighty smart for a guy,” and he was quiet after that. He should have just been glad he was behind a counter or I just might have tried out the old you-know-where kick.

  46. Suz
    November 16, 2007 at 11:56 am

    I’ve often had my hand crushed by guys during a handshake. It wasn’t because they were so STRONG. I was because they didn’t shake properly. Instead of meeting my hand palm to palm, they would close their hand around my fingers and knuckles and squeeze.

  47. Alara Rogers
    November 16, 2007 at 10:40 pm

    so he turns his anger outward at the women who won’t be what Japanese cartoons tell him they should be

    Actually, Japanese cartoons tell people that women should beat men senseless for catching a glimpse of them naked, so I’m not actually sure that this guy is using anime as his guideline.

    I actually find the casual female-on-male violence in anime really disturbing.

  48. Helen
    November 19, 2007 at 3:00 pm

    “I actually find the casual female-on-male violence in anime really disturbing.”

    I find the casual male-on-female violence in real life disturbing. I’m all for images that help break down the indoctrination that “good girls don’t fight back”.

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