A boy scout leader who opposed allowing gay men and atheists serve as troop leaders — and who even sued the city of Berkeley over it — has been arrested on felony sexual abuse charges. For sexually abusing boys in his troop.
But at least he kept the gays and the atheists out.
And yet they still can’t seem to figure out that the actual child molesters are using the gay issue as a smokescreen. If I recall correctly, the guy that was practically the architect for the Scouts’ anti-gay policies turned out to be a kiddie porn collector himself.
This is why I feel sorry for the children of conservative parents. They’ll make themselves crazy “defending” their children from phantom threats and illusory dangers while happily handing those same children over to people who really will victimize them.
Maybe he was mistakenly afraid of the competition.
seriously get out of my head…cuz when i read this i was gonna say that…you stole my insomnia fun!
My son experienced emotional/verbal abuse at the hands of a parent in cub scouts. Despite a “zero tolerance” policy on abuse and required safety training for all scout leaders, the scout leadership at that pack hemmed and hawed about doing anything about it, and instead focused their attention on blaming my son and saying that I was just trying to cause trouble. We left. A year later, someone still told me that they were sure that parent had learned his lesson and was no longer abusive. That man is still working with the children, and not only the leadership but also the other parents feel like the trouble is gone because we left. Very troubling. I worry about those other children.
Any organization that is kid-focused is going to attract its share of abusers–scouts, school, religious education, sports, etc. While the scouts do take steps to decrease the incidents, I have been through the training and its very clear that the training is more about decreasing their own liability and less about protecting the kids. (I also found this true for Catholic VIRTUS training.)
In the end, my lesson has been that the only one who is going to protect my child is me. My children still participate in many activities, but I maintain a healthy distrust of ALL adults that my children come in contact with and make sure their are obstacles in place whenever they interact with other adults (for instance, I never leave them alone with a lone adult; I volunteer so I am usually present, etc.)
There are far too many adults (in any organization, not just scouts) that excuse odd behaviors and signs of abuse because despite the training they receive, this person is a respected volunteer, a beloved neighbor, a friend.
[...] Feministe: About Jill About Piny About Zuzu Vintage Advertise SHOP Projection, anyone? Filed under: Assholes, [...]
I agree with you completely that homosexuality is the same thing as pedophilia.
If O. Henry were alive today, he’d be doing anything but writing fiction. He wouldn’t be able to compete.
I’m perpetually grateful to my parents for being scout leaders for my brother and i. they really spared us from some wackos out there.
The ironic thing, of course, is that your kids would probably be much safer around an out gay man. It’s the guys who spend a lot of time and energy showing that they’re “normal” that you’ve gotta watch out for.
(Obviously, I’m not saying that gay men aren’t normal. That’s why “normal” is in quotes up there.)
(hums)“…’cuz sex isn’t gay when it’s had by two straight guys toge-e-e-ether…”
Well, we all know that when boys are abused by gay men, there’s no question that it’s horrible. But when boys are abused by straight men, ah!! that’s another matter altogether. That’s just something that makes for an interesting day in the woods. No??
…who said that?
I will kindly point you to the title of the post. I think it may apply to your comment.
My point was that this dude went to all sorts of lengths to bar “moral perverts” from being boyscout leaders. And then it turned out he was an actual pervert. Not to tough to figure out.
Yes. In order for an abuser to gain access to children, he/she knows they must ingratiate himself to the parents of the child and gain their trust. So many of those that are shining examples of volunteerism and are so great with kids are really just doing it to give the parents a false sense of security. This man put himself in a position where he not only came across as maintaining the culture and safety of scouting, but also reinforced inaccurate stereotypes of homosexuality–so that the parents would focus their fear elsewhere. All of it was likely designed to make parents think that their children were safe with him. Which obviously they were not. Very scary indeed.
[...] first commenter at Alas and the second commenter at Feministe both immediately did make the logically obvious jump: Mr. Evans is a closeted gay man, whose [...]
9666974.htmlhttp://www.news.com.au/story/0,23599,22896159-2,00.html
!!!!!???
One hears this a lot. Is there evidence to support it?
Even if there is, I wonder about its rhetorical effectiveness: to come back at somebody spouting homophobia with ‘You’re secretly gay!’ can’t possibly advance any arguments in a helpful direction.
“One hears this a lot. Is there evidence to support it?”
I don’t think there’s much evidence to support a claim that the majority of homophobes are closet cases, but one certainly does see a pattern of homophobes whose actions towards gays mimic the actions of straight gynophobes towards women getting busted for inappropriate behavior with other men.
“to come back at somebody spouting homophobia with ‘You’re secretly gay!’ can’t possibly advance any arguments in a helpful direction.”
Is there anything that really could move an argument with someone who’s frothing at the mouth and/or wetting themselves because gays have the temerity to exist in a helpful direction? Usually those aren’t the type of people who are just ignorant, uninformed, or blinded by cultural bias. The hatred isn’t coming from a rational source, and they’re not in any particular hurry to see the light.
What it often does is highlight that someone’s irrational hatred and fear of homosexuals is a personal problem. There’s not really anything anybody else can do for or with someone whose homophobia seems to be a reaction to their own same-sex attraction until they start dealing with their own issues, beyond remind them that their neuroses are not a legitimate substitute for rational judgment, logic, or sane social policies.
I hate it when my own quotes get missused.
And as for a litmus test on who gets to be around my 12 year old boy- I will take a gay man over a right wing homophobe any day. Recent news reports show that the Kid would more likely be in danger with the screaming homophobe.
Kat:
I thought my son was the only one!
My son had some serious social/emotional problems after living with his father, so upon gaining custody I thought scouts would be a great opportunity for him to develop some positive time with his peer group.
Cub scouts was great, but then he moved into the local boy scout “pack” and it was hell. The two leaders (a husband and wife team) were alcoholics, hated my single parent status and rubbed it in my face constantly pressuring me to buy things I couldn’t afford and guilting me about not being able to attend after meeting weekly parental meetings (designed to guilt parents into more activity), even though I had two young girls at home to care for and couldn’t afford a babysitter. The male leader used to call me at my home to complain that my son’s uniform might not have been properly ironed, or that he was sullenly. I told them he had emotional problems and was difficult and was in therapy, couldn’t they just work with me with him? No, they preferred blaming and shaming.
Fuck them.
My son was withdrawn socially and was the butt of teasing which was encouraged by the leaders. I reported the ‘leaders’ to the higher ups in the organization who consented to refund my dues payments and said they could put him with another pack.
By then my son had had his fill of scouts and I was pissed that basically, my son was seen as a problem. Apparently they saw no problem with the leaders’ behavior.
My girls were in girl scouts later but when they complained of cattiness and cliquishness among the group, I pulled them out, fearing another re-run of the past.
I kept the kid out of Scouts just because of the their anti-gay stance. I am really glad I did now
What’s kinda creepy is that this was the plot of an episode of South Park. The fathers of the town freak out that the troop leader is gay, and replace him with an uber-masculine homophobe, who then sexually abuses the boys.
South Park is predicting reality. We have entered the Twilight Zone.
Red Queen, I saw that and posted my own response on his blog. I doubt he’ll get it. He’s so invested in proclaiming the eeeevil of teh gay that he doesn’t realize (or perhaps even care) that the only people he’s protecting are the ones doing the victimizing of kids in scouting.
He crossed out my part in his stupid post, but not until after he tried to play it off like an innocent mistake.
Thanks for the response. I was just too mad that someone would be such an asswipe to comment coherently.
Red Queen, no thanks necessary. I got sick of this “We know the truth and the truth is that gay men want to molest boys!” molester-enabling shite back when the anti-gay crowd started shrieking about Jesse Dirkhising being a victim of evil homosexual men. That was a prime example of their hatred blinding them to reality at the expense of their children and the children of others; Jesse Dirkhising’s murderers planned to do the same thing to a young girl as well. One would wonder if the moralizers would have cared if she’d been the victim instead of Jesse, but we all ready know the answer to that, I think.
I think the real problem is that these are the same people who think rape is just sex that got out of hand instead of rape being a way to assert power over someone. If you take away the sex part, what your left with is a lot of straight identifying men abuse boys (and or girls) as a way to gain power over them. I think their preference for boys or girls is probably based on who which gender they feel more powerless against rather than their own sexual orientation
pardon the horrid typos in my last comment.
Funny how you hear the “gay men want to molest boys!” from the same paleos who argue that the Invisible Hand of Evolutionary Biology makes it natural and inevitable for middle-aged men to want to fuck teenage girls.
I don’t think there’s much evidence to support a claim that the majority of homophobes are closet cases
It’s a logical error. An awful lot of closet cases (consciously or not) react to their same-sex attraction with homophobia. Some people read this the other way around (if you’re a homophobe you must be a closet case), which isn’t true although it does annoy homophobes.
Red Queen, that’s exactly the point I’ve been trying to make to this person. It’s not just about sex or gender, it’s about power, it’s about taking advantage of someone’s vulnerability. In this case it’s also about predators gaming the system to their own advantage, ie. this Evans waste of skin blathering on about the BSA needing to keep out the gays while he’s the one victimizing kids. I am certain that this is why people trusted him and why there are people defending him even now. Like any other predator of his type, he’s figured out how to use the system to his benefit, how to project the “normal” appearance so people would trust him. Bob just doesn’t seem to get that at all. Much like profiling, any criminal worth their salt will figure out how to rig the rules of the game, essentially throwing a yummy biscuit to the watchdogs so they can just walk right by unscathed.
mythago, I’d be inclined to say that some homophobes are self-loathing closet cases. The rest of them, however, are just retrograde troglodytes who hate and fear anything different from themselves and hate and fear the possibility that those different from themselves might someday be considered equal members of society.
Both groups are dangerous in their own right and can do the same level of damage whether through direct violence or the use of State power against those they hate.
Kate, I am so sorry to hear that your son experienced the same thing. Ugh.
I didn’t get my dues back. In our case, I’m convinced that is because they knew that if they gave me my money back, that would have been an admission on their part that I was justified in leaving. As it ended, they kept my dues and decided amongst themselves that the reason I left was because that particular pack was not a “good match” for us. That was a nice, tidy solution for them that had the benefit of them never having to really face up to the problem. At one point, I was actually accused of trying to “ruin it for all the boys.”
I was awed by our ordeal. Mostly because these other leaders, who also had children in the pack, were so hell-bent to maintain the status quo and the reputation of the pack that they were willing to ignore it and leave the abuser in place among their own children. My children were safely away from him; but oddly, strangely, inexplicably… they left their own children right in his path. And of course he probably was empowered by dodging that bullet that he got more savvy, etc. And really what they have done is created a haven for abusers.
We did not leave scouting entirely. My son enjoys it and so we found another pack. That experience, however, gave me a new perspective on child safety in group activities and how I approach our participation in them.
My son was withdrawn socially and was the butt of teasing which was encouraged by the leaders.
This very thing happened to me, lo all these years ago. I hated scouts. I’m glad I got out.
And when and if my son decides he wants to join up, we will will sit down and have a nice chat about how the scouts hate atheists like us, and don’t let gays in either.
And there’s this. More than a year old, but does show that this isn’t “a West Coast thing” (which is what one of my friends said after hearing me rant about the issue for half an hour or more).
And to think I so wanted to join the scouts as a young child. Thank goodness my parents were wary and thus, refused to enroll me in the organization.
As a parent, the dilemma is finding safe activities for your child. Anywhere you find children, you will find child abusers. Its hard to keep your kids out of every activity, especially as they get older. You can opt out of scouting, but what about soccer, math club, after-school homework help, field trips? And so then the question becomes how do you protect them when they participate. And how do you empower them to protect themselves without freaking them out.
Most kid’s activities, including scouting, have rules for adults designed to create obstacles to any potential abuser. Someone who is trying to gain access to children will try to circumvent the rules. The duty of the leadership is to be vigilant that these rules are followed by all their leaders no matter how well-respected or liked.
I wonder in the case of the article how exactly the man gained access to the boys. Clearly, he was in violation of the organization’s own rules (being alone with any child for any reason is against the rules and grounds for expulsion from leadership–even if you just offer to give the kid a ride home, etc.). And I wonder, based on my own experiences, if the leadership knew that he was breaking the rules and just looked the other way? Were any parent complaints ignored because they didn’t want to cause trouble for the man?
Like many kid-centered organizations, scouting has a zero tolerance policy for abuse and rules in place to prevent abuse, but its means squat if its not enforced/followed.
this is why I’m happy that I live in Philadelphia, where the Scouts got booted out of their $1-a-year public building because their anti-gay policy doesn’t mesh with the city’s anti-discrimination laws.
ok, it doesn’t stop them from existing or from hiring pedophiles, but still.
[...] Over on Feministe Jill has an interesting thread concerning a boy scout leader who has been pounding his chest over allowing “them gays and atheists” into the ever-so-holy bastion that is the Boy Scouts. She writes: Projection, anyone? [...]
Oooh lookie – misogyinst MRA trackbacks. Always good for a laugh.
Ugh. I know I shouldn’t respond, but I just can’t help it.
Jill, do you ever look at blog posts and wish they were subject to law journal standards? Then someone would make Toy Soldier actually find a source for his claims that feminists do such-and-such before he hit “publish.”
PG et al: You may have heard the phrase “sometimes appearances are more important than facts.” There are such times, many of them.
When dealing with male survivors, especially male survivors of female offender sex crimes, appearances of feminist hatred of male survivors are more than crucial. There can be no understanding without first understanding the violence of the appearance.
No one here or anywhere in the blogosphere (or even the wider society) can wave a magic wand and take away the appearance of hatred of male survivors coming out of feminist political and social-action groups. Or from the media for that matter.
If people would simply LISTEN instead of TELLING there could be some communication and from that some healing. Yet, it so sadly seems that no one wearing the feminist label is willing to listen …
OK, but could you explain where even this appearance of HATRED is coming from among feminists? I don’t feel an obligation to take people’s claims even about appearances as true when they state them as fact. If someone says, “I *feel* like feminists hate male survivors of female crimes,” I’d say, “Wow, I’m sorry you feel that way about feminists. Could you tell me what causes that feeling?” If someone says, “Feminists normally and typically hate male survivors,” I’m going to call bullshit.
I’m still trying to figure out why pointing out the loudest hypocrites are usually perpetrators (as this guy was) is bashing male survivors of sex crimes. Or are you trying to say that this abuse was no big deal compared to a boy being abused by a woman, which means you’re — you guessed it — saying these kids aren’t “real” victims and diminishing what happened to them.
Just two quick points. Many of us here in Berkeley believe that Mr. Evans is not guilty of the charges, and may have been set up. The vitriol being thrown at him makes no sense — unless he is found guilty. As for the lawsuit — all Gene tried to do was maintain status quo, after the City made an example out of the group. The Berkeley Sea Scouts had been flying under the BSA’s radar for years as a loosely associated group under the Sea Scout umbrella…. In the pissing match between Berkeley and the Boy Scouts, Mr. Evans and his group were really just something to be peed on. I don’t argue the passion and instinct to protect that I see here — but I’m not convinced that this incident is an appropriate target for so much hostility.