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	<title>Comments on: Introducing&#8230;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:12:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Serafina</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-146168</link>
		<dc:creator>Serafina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:49:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-146168</guid>
		<description>And (might as well post three comments in a row, even if one is in moderation) if ovulation is &quot;natural,&quot; Sean, then why isn&#039;t a diabetic child &quot;natural&quot;? &quot;Natural&quot; (meaning, judging from your comments, the default state of things without human intervention) doesn&#039;t always mean &quot;good.&quot; If you want to talk about &quot;natural,&quot; then insulin and Viagra shouldn&#039;t be covered, any more than birth control should. If you want to talk about &quot;good,&quot; on the other hand, then you have no excuse for NOT covering birth control. 

And as I said in my previous comment, now held up in moderation, &quot;natural&quot; versus &quot;unnatural&quot; is a pointless dichotomy in any case. Human intervention is part of the default state of things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And (might as well post three comments in a row, even if one is in moderation) if ovulation is &#8220;natural,&#8221; Sean, then why isn&#8217;t a diabetic child &#8220;natural&#8221;? &#8220;Natural&#8221; (meaning, judging from your comments, the default state of things without human intervention) doesn&#8217;t always mean &#8220;good.&#8221; If you want to talk about &#8220;natural,&#8221; then insulin and Viagra shouldn&#8217;t be covered, any more than birth control should. If you want to talk about &#8220;good,&#8221; on the other hand, then you have no excuse for NOT covering birth control. </p>
<p>And as I said in my previous comment, now held up in moderation, &#8220;natural&#8221; versus &#8220;unnatural&#8221; is a pointless dichotomy in any case. Human intervention is part of the default state of things.</p>
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		<title>By: Serafina</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-146166</link>
		<dc:creator>Serafina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:44:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-146166</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;But it still does not treat a medical problem (as discussed above). It is not the job of insures to help us enjoy sex in our prime.&lt;/i&gt;

WTF? Then why is it the job of insurers to help elderly men get their rocks off? 

You&#039;re being EXTREMELY contradictory, Sean. At one point you say that sexual health is an important part of overall health, that not being able to have sex is a medical problem. Fair enough. But if that&#039;s the case, then you have to take steps to protect WOMEN&#039;S sexual health as well and give them the medications they need to maintain their sexual health. Which includes birth control. 

Furthermore, pregnancy itself can be an enormous medical problem with huge mental and physical effects. And YES, it is our insurance companies&#039; responsibility to help protect us from it, just as it would protect us from a broken leg or a heart attack.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>But it still does not treat a medical problem (as discussed above). It is not the job of insures to help us enjoy sex in our prime.</i></p>
<p>WTF? Then why is it the job of insurers to help elderly men get their rocks off? </p>
<p>You&#8217;re being EXTREMELY contradictory, Sean. At one point you say that sexual health is an important part of overall health, that not being able to have sex is a medical problem. Fair enough. But if that&#8217;s the case, then you have to take steps to protect WOMEN&#8217;S sexual health as well and give them the medications they need to maintain their sexual health. Which includes birth control. </p>
<p>Furthermore, pregnancy itself can be an enormous medical problem with huge mental and physical effects. And YES, it is our insurance companies&#8217; responsibility to help protect us from it, just as it would protect us from a broken leg or a heart attack.</p>
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		<title>By: Serafina</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-146163</link>
		<dc:creator>Serafina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:39:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-146163</guid>
		<description>Sean, you are conflating &quot;medical&quot; and &quot;healthy&quot; with &quot;natural.&quot; In your first comment, you suggested that birth control is interfering with a &quot;natural&quot; process in a way that Viagra is not. This makes no sense. The aging process is a natural part of life. An old man being unable to get it up is as &quot;natural&quot; as a young woman being fertile and ovulating. 

In your second comment, you refined your terms a little and switched to talking about &quot;medical&quot; and &quot;healthy&quot; instead of &quot;natural.&quot; You said that impotence was a medical problem because of the importance of sexual health to one&#039;s emotional health. Fair enough. But you also said that ovulation was not a medical problem. Why on earth not, if impotence is?  Ovulation is not a medical problem for EVERY woman--just like impotence is not a medical problem for EVERY man--but, if getting pregnant would be damaging to a particular woman&#039;s mental and/or physical health, then ovulation is NO LESS a medical problem for her than impotence would be for you. Stopping ovulation is NO LESS important to her health than getting it up would be for you. Frankly, given the different consequences of pregnancy vs. ED, I&#039;d say stopping ovulation is MORE IMPORTANT for her health than getting it up is for an elderly man&#039;s health. 

What&#039;s more, you seem to be suggesting that there&#039;s something like a &quot;true natural state&quot; for the human body. There is no such thing. The human body changes states all the time, and there&#039;s no reason for considering one state &quot;truer&quot; than another. Better, yes. Healthier, certainly. But not &quot;truer.&quot; 

I think your attachment to the term &quot;natural&quot; is the problem here. There&#039;s really no point in trying to sort &quot;natural&quot; from &quot;unnatural,&quot; since everything is a part of nature anyway, including human ingenuity. We can only judge the consequences of medical treatments as &quot;healthy&quot; versus &quot;unhealthy.&quot; Once you accept that, it becomes obvious that stopping ovulation is (whether you want to call it &quot;natural&quot; or not) important to some women&#039;s health--at least as much as Viagra is to some men&#039;s health. The reason why feminists get up in arms about the coverage of Viagra but not birth control is that it shows a prioritization of men&#039;s sexual health over women&#039;s. Birth control allows women to have sex without fearing the often-horrible consequences of pregnancy. That&#039;s a part of their sexual health.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sean, you are conflating &#8220;medical&#8221; and &#8220;healthy&#8221; with &#8220;natural.&#8221; In your first comment, you suggested that birth control is interfering with a &#8220;natural&#8221; process in a way that Viagra is not. This makes no sense. The aging process is a natural part of life. An old man being unable to get it up is as &#8220;natural&#8221; as a young woman being fertile and ovulating. </p>
<p>In your second comment, you refined your terms a little and switched to talking about &#8220;medical&#8221; and &#8220;healthy&#8221; instead of &#8220;natural.&#8221; You said that impotence was a medical problem because of the importance of sexual health to one&#8217;s emotional health. Fair enough. But you also said that ovulation was not a medical problem. Why on earth not, if impotence is?  Ovulation is not a medical problem for EVERY woman&#8211;just like impotence is not a medical problem for EVERY man&#8211;but, if getting pregnant would be damaging to a particular woman&#8217;s mental and/or physical health, then ovulation is NO LESS a medical problem for her than impotence would be for you. Stopping ovulation is NO LESS important to her health than getting it up would be for you. Frankly, given the different consequences of pregnancy vs. ED, I&#8217;d say stopping ovulation is MORE IMPORTANT for her health than getting it up is for an elderly man&#8217;s health. </p>
<p>What&#8217;s more, you seem to be suggesting that there&#8217;s something like a &#8220;true natural state&#8221; for the human body. There is no such thing. The human body changes states all the time, and there&#8217;s no reason for considering one state &#8220;truer&#8221; than another. Better, yes. Healthier, certainly. But not &#8220;truer.&#8221; </p>
<p>I think your attachment to the term &#8220;natural&#8221; is the problem here. There&#8217;s really no point in trying to sort &#8220;natural&#8221; from &#8220;unnatural,&#8221; since everything is a part of nature anyway, including human ingenuity. We can only judge the consequences of medical treatments as &#8220;healthy&#8221; versus &#8220;unhealthy.&#8221; Once you accept that, it becomes obvious that stopping ovulation is (whether you want to call it &#8220;natural&#8221; or not) important to some women&#8217;s health&#8211;at least as much as Viagra is to some men&#8217;s health. The reason why feminists get up in arms about the coverage of Viagra but not birth control is that it shows a prioritization of men&#8217;s sexual health over women&#8217;s. Birth control allows women to have sex without fearing the often-horrible consequences of pregnancy. That&#8217;s a part of their sexual health.</p>
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		<title>By: JackieO</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-146155</link>
		<dc:creator>JackieO</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Jan 2008 17:07:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-146155</guid>
		<description>Here is a topic of interest that is personally affecting me:

I believe I am about to be served with divorce papers.  We have been married 15 years.  Up until seven years ago I enjoyed a developing career as a lawyer in another state.  Approximately seven years ago my spouse was made a very attractive offer by a dot com in the area we now live.  It was hard to refuse, notwithstanding my developing career.  Before the offer was made, my spouse and I earned approximately the same with my spouse earning slightly more.  We took the offer and moved with our 2 children ages 5 and 4 at the time to a place I had never been to before.  I waived into this state&#039;s bar and almost a year after moving here the dot com my spouse worked for imploded.  We considered moving back but I had secured employment as a lawyer, but earning 25% less than what I had earned in our prior state of residence.  My spouse, being well educated secured new employment here rather quickly, but no where near the salary or benefits that lured us here in the first place.  We had a third child and I found myself bearing the majority of the child care responsibilities.  My earnings have remained essentially stagnant and my spouse&#039;s have risen substantially.  Notwithstanding my repeated desire to return to our former state of residence where I feel my capacity to earn is greater, my spouse has refused to do it.  My spouse now earns 4 times what I earn.  The principle reason for the divorce?  My spouse resents the fact that my career has stalled and my earning capacity has declined as I have aged.  By my rough calculations my spouse will owe me approximately $2,500.00 a month in child and spousal support, but my that may require resort to the kids&#039; college funds, at least according to my spouse. If the divorce goes through I am considering a return to the state of our former residence where I feel I could do better financially, but that would mean not seeing my kids regularly, not something I could do.    So what should I do?  In my view, my gender in this fact pattern is irrelevant and therefore I have made painstaking efforts to write this in as gender neutral a fashion as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here is a topic of interest that is personally affecting me:</p>
<p>I believe I am about to be served with divorce papers.  We have been married 15 years.  Up until seven years ago I enjoyed a developing career as a lawyer in another state.  Approximately seven years ago my spouse was made a very attractive offer by a dot com in the area we now live.  It was hard to refuse, notwithstanding my developing career.  Before the offer was made, my spouse and I earned approximately the same with my spouse earning slightly more.  We took the offer and moved with our 2 children ages 5 and 4 at the time to a place I had never been to before.  I waived into this state&#8217;s bar and almost a year after moving here the dot com my spouse worked for imploded.  We considered moving back but I had secured employment as a lawyer, but earning 25% less than what I had earned in our prior state of residence.  My spouse, being well educated secured new employment here rather quickly, but no where near the salary or benefits that lured us here in the first place.  We had a third child and I found myself bearing the majority of the child care responsibilities.  My earnings have remained essentially stagnant and my spouse&#8217;s have risen substantially.  Notwithstanding my repeated desire to return to our former state of residence where I feel my capacity to earn is greater, my spouse has refused to do it.  My spouse now earns 4 times what I earn.  The principle reason for the divorce?  My spouse resents the fact that my career has stalled and my earning capacity has declined as I have aged.  By my rough calculations my spouse will owe me approximately $2,500.00 a month in child and spousal support, but my that may require resort to the kids&#8217; college funds, at least according to my spouse. If the divorce goes through I am considering a return to the state of our former residence where I feel I could do better financially, but that would mean not seeing my kids regularly, not something I could do.    So what should I do?  In my view, my gender in this fact pattern is irrelevant and therefore I have made painstaking efforts to write this in as gender neutral a fashion as possible.</p>
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		<title>By: laurajanine</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145809</link>
		<dc:creator>laurajanine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 14:56:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145809</guid>
		<description>In my understanding, the term &quot;Reproductive Justice&quot; is one that was coined to take the focus off of white middle class womens&#039; reproductive health issues (birth control and contraception) and to expand the focus to those issues that effect more people&#039;s ability to control their health.  To me, this includes:

forced and coerced sterilization
dangerous contraceptives and experiments on such in communities of color
the right to reproduce regardless of socioeconomic background
the &quot;war on drugs&quot; and its effects on women of color
the sex trade, and the rights of people who trade sex for money 
reproductive health issues of people in the trans community (effects of hormones, pregnancy, etc)
environmental racism and its impacts on reproductive health
health care access (not just to abortion) and its effects on reproductive health
access to prenatal care
access to reproductive health care for incarcerated people
access to health care and self determination re: reproductive health for people with disabilities
the impact of military occupation on reproductive health
pesticides effects on farm workers

I could go on and on.  I&#039;m missing a lot here.  The point is, if Reproductive Justice is going to be used, please don&#039;t erase the communities that made the distinction in terminology as an explicit way to center the issues most important to us.  Thanks.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my understanding, the term &#8220;Reproductive Justice&#8221; is one that was coined to take the focus off of white middle class womens&#8217; reproductive health issues (birth control and contraception) and to expand the focus to those issues that effect more people&#8217;s ability to control their health.  To me, this includes:</p>
<p>forced and coerced sterilization<br />
dangerous contraceptives and experiments on such in communities of color<br />
the right to reproduce regardless of socioeconomic background<br />
the &#8220;war on drugs&#8221; and its effects on women of color<br />
the sex trade, and the rights of people who trade sex for money<br />
reproductive health issues of people in the trans community (effects of hormones, pregnancy, etc)<br />
environmental racism and its impacts on reproductive health<br />
health care access (not just to abortion) and its effects on reproductive health<br />
access to prenatal care<br />
access to reproductive health care for incarcerated people<br />
access to health care and self determination re: reproductive health for people with disabilities<br />
the impact of military occupation on reproductive health<br />
pesticides effects on farm workers</p>
<p>I could go on and on.  I&#8217;m missing a lot here.  The point is, if Reproductive Justice is going to be used, please don&#8217;t erase the communities that made the distinction in terminology as an explicit way to center the issues most important to us.  Thanks.</p>
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		<title>By: Jessica</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145793</link>
		<dc:creator>Jessica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 07:58:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145793</guid>
		<description>Here&#039;s a subject to be tackled:
I was just flipping through TriCare&#039;s (US military health insurance) website. 
Abortion is not covered at all unless a woman or girl faces a life-threatening condition. 
Even a severe threat to her health is not enough to be covered by health insurance.
On all of their plans.
A penis pump is. With no stipulation that it must be used for health reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here&#8217;s a subject to be tackled:<br />
I was just flipping through TriCare&#8217;s (US military health insurance) website.<br />
Abortion is not covered at all unless a woman or girl faces a life-threatening condition.<br />
Even a severe threat to her health is not enough to be covered by health insurance.<br />
On all of their plans.<br />
A penis pump is. With no stipulation that it must be used for health reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Acer</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145761</link>
		<dc:creator>Acer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145761</guid>
		<description>I&#039;d like to read about the flipside of reproductive justice from what most people are talking about here-- the right to have children when you want them and in the way you want them. I know that there are a lot of justice issues out there-- issues facing pregnant prisoners and members of the armed forces, judges that order certain women not to reproduce, the disenfranchisement of women in hospitals, and that kind of thing-- that often don&#039;t get discussed in the context of &quot;reproductive rights&quot;, and I&#039;d like to see them as part of the conversation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to read about the flipside of reproductive justice from what most people are talking about here&#8211; the right to have children when you want them and in the way you want them. I know that there are a lot of justice issues out there&#8211; issues facing pregnant prisoners and members of the armed forces, judges that order certain women not to reproduce, the disenfranchisement of women in hospitals, and that kind of thing&#8211; that often don&#8217;t get discussed in the context of &#8220;reproductive rights&#8221;, and I&#8217;d like to see them as part of the conversation.</p>
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		<title>By: Rebecca</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145760</link>
		<dc:creator>Rebecca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:20:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145760</guid>
		<description>From a childfree perspective, how about the fact that unless the woman is 30+ and/or has had kids, it is very difficult to get a doctor to perform various sterilization prcedures.  It&#039;s quite insulting to be patted on the hand, told we will &#039;change our minds&#039; about kids, or will one day &#039;meet a man who will want kids&#039; and &#039;regret&#039; our decision to be sterilized. Maybe a small number of women will, but that&#039;s no reason to penalize the rest of us. (From the stories I have heard through the grapevine, men face similar issues about getting snipped.)

I am carrying around female parts that don&#039;t work (hello early menopause) but because of my age (29) am finding a hard time finding a doctor willing to remove said girly parts, despite the fact that they are starting to cause me some discomfort.  If in-vitro fertlization is not messing with &#039;god&#039;s plan&#039; I don&#039;t see how choosing to become sterile is any different. *sorry, a little ranty.*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From a childfree perspective, how about the fact that unless the woman is 30+ and/or has had kids, it is very difficult to get a doctor to perform various sterilization prcedures.  It&#8217;s quite insulting to be patted on the hand, told we will &#8216;change our minds&#8217; about kids, or will one day &#8216;meet a man who will want kids&#8217; and &#8216;regret&#8217; our decision to be sterilized. Maybe a small number of women will, but that&#8217;s no reason to penalize the rest of us. (From the stories I have heard through the grapevine, men face similar issues about getting snipped.)</p>
<p>I am carrying around female parts that don&#8217;t work (hello early menopause) but because of my age (29) am finding a hard time finding a doctor willing to remove said girly parts, despite the fact that they are starting to cause me some discomfort.  If in-vitro fertlization is not messing with &#8216;god&#8217;s plan&#8217; I don&#8217;t see how choosing to become sterile is any different. *sorry, a little ranty.*</p>
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		<title>By: Linnaeus</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145759</link>
		<dc:creator>Linnaeus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 02:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145759</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I do not in any way dismiss the importance of sexual health, even in older humans. In fact, I applaud that research has even been done in that area given the general “ew!” reaction many people have to the notion of older humans being sexual. But I find it very odd that insurance companies will cover that particular drug, with its attendant side effects, and not hormonal birth control, which prevents a medical condition that can, in some women, be truly debilitating, and is FAR more expensive than just providing the HBC in the first place.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think this - actually all of Laurie&#039;s comment - is dead on.  There&#039;s plenty wrong with the situation in which Viagra gets covered and hormonal birth control doesn&#039;t.  And yes, Viagra&#039;s safety is seriously in question.  I have to say that I&#039;m uncomfortable with the implication, intended or not, that when nature &quot;decides&quot; that a person&#039;s sexual function will be greatly inhibited, that person should just accept that.  There does seem to be a persistent notion that the older people get, the more &quot;gross&quot; sex is.

Unless I am misinterpreting something.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I do not in any way dismiss the importance of sexual health, even in older humans. In fact, I applaud that research has even been done in that area given the general “ew!” reaction many people have to the notion of older humans being sexual. But I find it very odd that insurance companies will cover that particular drug, with its attendant side effects, and not hormonal birth control, which prevents a medical condition that can, in some women, be truly debilitating, and is FAR more expensive than just providing the HBC in the first place.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think this &#8211; actually all of Laurie&#8217;s comment &#8211; is dead on.  There&#8217;s plenty wrong with the situation in which Viagra gets covered and hormonal birth control doesn&#8217;t.  And yes, Viagra&#8217;s safety is seriously in question.  I have to say that I&#8217;m uncomfortable with the implication, intended or not, that when nature &#8220;decides&#8221; that a person&#8217;s sexual function will be greatly inhibited, that person should just accept that.  There does seem to be a persistent notion that the older people get, the more &#8220;gross&#8221; sex is.</p>
<p>Unless I am misinterpreting something.</p>
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		<title>By: atlasien</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145753</link>
		<dc:creator>atlasien</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 10 Jan 2008 01:16:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/09/introducing/#comment-145753</guid>
		<description>Adoption ethics should be covered under reproductive justice, but it frequently gets ignored.  

Issues:
&lt;strong&gt;Open birth records for adoptees
Reform to prevent coercion tactics used against birthmothers in private infant adoption
Legal protection for open adoption
Racial and class disparities in domestic and international adoption
Reform to encourage more adoption of older, special needs children in foster care
&lt;/strong&gt;
Some websites for further exploration:
paragraphein.wordpress.com
ethica.ning.com
pflagfostermom.blogspot.com
harlowmonkey.typepad.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adoption ethics should be covered under reproductive justice, but it frequently gets ignored.  </p>
<p>Issues:<br />
<strong>Open birth records for adoptees<br />
Reform to prevent coercion tactics used against birthmothers in private infant adoption<br />
Legal protection for open adoption<br />
Racial and class disparities in domestic and international adoption<br />
Reform to encourage more adoption of older, special needs children in foster care<br />
</strong><br />
Some websites for further exploration:<br />
paragraphein.wordpress.com<br />
ethica.ning.com<br />
pflagfostermom.blogspot.com<br />
harlowmonkey.typepad.com</p>
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