Class and weight issues in a cup

Starbucks is, apparently, introducing something called “The Skinny Platform,” which proposes to simplify ordering by designating as “skinny” drinks with the following characteristics: skim milk, sugar-free syrup, no whip. I have some issues with the perpetuation of the idea that a drink should be designated “skinny” (because the ones with whole milk are “fat” or something?), particularly when it’s not exactly calorie-free anyhow. It seems like Starbucks is just reacting to the fact that people are starting to wake up a bit to just how many calories and grams of fat are in their drinks. So we’ll just introduce the Skinny Platform! Now everyone can hear how virtuous you are as the barista calls out your order and you pick up the Venti Skinny Mint Mocha!

But it appears that there are some real concerns that baristas have about the potential for customer confusion. See, “skinny” is pretty universally understood in current ordering language to mean simply nonfat milk. But if you go into a Starbucks and order a “Skinny Mint Mocha,” you’re going to get a set drink that maybe you didn’t want. “Hey, dude, where’s my whip?” you might ask. And maybe you wanted the sugar syrup.

Starbucks Gossip has a long letter from a barista to Starbucks HQ complaining, on several grounds, about the Skinny Platform. In a nutshell, here are the barista’s concerns:

1. Potential for customer confusion, leading to longer wait times, more frustration, wasted product and money.
2. Potential for barista confusion, leading to miscommunication, longer wait times, frustration, wasted product and money.
3. It’s going to hurt the feelings of fat people to hear “skinny” called out over and over.

Now, I happen to think #3, at least the way the barista argued it, is overreaching. I would probably avoid ordering anything specifically labeled “skinny” because it’s slightly embarrassing to have to ask for that when you’re fat, but just hearing the word spoken by others isn’t a blow to my self-esteem. If it were, I’d never leave the house, what with the saturation of the culture with weight anxiety.

However, that’s not really what I want to discuss right now. I want to give you some of the comments at Starbucks Gossip, and point out what a pure example they are of class and weight anxiety. Gender, too, since the barista is female. The thread starts out with a discussion of the wisdom of actually making the change, given presently-understood usage of “skinny,” some corporate background, etc.

And then:

Hmmmm, sounds like this person might be a little obsessed with her own weight or body image. The term is referring to a drink, not a person. Is she really saying that the word ‘Skinny’ is not appropriate in any context because it makes her think about what she looks like?

The trolly comments broke down into two main themes: This chick is only complaining because she’s fat, and Shut up and do your job, coffee monkey.

Part the first:

I think that the “partner” who wrote this must be a fat chick, it’s the only reason that she would be worried about this.

Inhale another dozen krispy kreme donuts and top it off with a Crisco milkshake, fatty. It’ll make you feel better.

To all the sensitive Fatties out there, all you gotta do is eat less (eliminate the obvious fatty food) and exercise more. Some overweight is excused for those who just happen to be thick, but those who are obese, you guys have no excuse, and Skinny is not the only synonym out there for thin.

God forbid overweight or obese people are given another reason to lose weight.

It’s not “okay” to be overweight or obese, it’s bad for your health, it’s bad for society, it’s bad for health care costs.

God forbid more attention is brought to the health crisis in this country from people eating terribly and not exercising.

Does anyone else think this girl might have a hard time sitting down on her HUGE behind with that big stick shoved up it?

You may have totally valid concerns regarding the possible production confusions resulting from the whole “skinny” business.. but the touchy-feely Poor Little Fat Feelings? Give it a rest.

If people have self esteem problems because they’re not happy with their weight, the solution is for them to stop shoveling in so much garbage and get the body moving. Banning words like Thin, Skinny, Svelte, size 2 and so forth isn’t going to help those with elastic waistbands.

What’s the difference between yelling, “skinny” and yelling “no fat, low fat?”

I say…. if you cringe when you hear words like, “obese” and “Fat” etc… why..it’s time to get off the couch!

It will undoubtedly have a negative affect on a person’s self-esteem (gag gag, whine whine) that may already be low from living in a society that is generally not accepting of people who do not fit the mold of a “beautiful” (or healthy, like, they don’t eat CRAP)person. It creates an environment that people will not want to be in. It will exacerbate self-image issues that partners of ANY size may have. Why would ANYONE want to go into a store where they will hear potentially hurtful terms (oooohhh, if we banish the words, then maybe now one will notice that we think it’s okaaaaaay to be among the millions of ever expanding potato chip shoveling masses…)called out repeatedly with no regard as to how they may affect people?

Get over it. Coddling fat people is absurd. Fat is not beautiful. Too bad if fatties “feel bad” hearing about “skinny” drinks. They need a reality check. Fat is nasty and doesn’t end on the hips. It cost uncounted millions in health care and insurance costs. And fat kids? Tragic. Baby ’em and bury ’em.

You’re ridiculous. There is absolutely no reason for a company to go out of its way in order to make FAT people feel good about themselves when they should be finding a way to lose the weight! We’d hope that fat people would start ordering “skinny” drinks because they associate the name of the drink with the size they SHOULD be!

I have a feeling the people that agree with the article are fat and the people that disagree are thin, normal-sized people. Get a life, fat asses.

I guarantee she is a “pleasantly plump”, “big beautiful woman” or “big-boned gal”; and would almost bet that if the company had required them to refer to them as “thin” or “ideal weight” drinks, not only would it sound much sillier, it would cause someone else “distress”. Not to mention, who is confused when presented two options: regular or skinny?

If ordering a drink and using the word “skinny” to place your order offends you, perhaps you should not order the drink in the first place and go to a gym, fatty.

And now for a little class anxiety:

Don’t like it? Get a new job.

God help you all should you ever enter the proffessional [sic] workforce…

Side note: just how pathetic do you have to be to troll a blog about Starbucks? And then misspell “professional” while you’re positioning yourself as superior?

i say…sadly…

shut up and do your job.

This is what “entitlement in education” gets us – whinging brats who are offended by the performance of thier jobs.

I’m more offended by these coffee monkeys being called “baristas” than the whole skinny thing…

Once again, the lowest level of employee is trying to steer the ship.

Just drag yourself to work like the rest of us, and conform! It’s not your business!!!! If you don’t agree with the way it is run….QUIT.

You minimum wage drones are hilarious. All you do is pour coffee on a cup. Get over yourselves and instead of worrying about stupid words worry about making your drink somewhat consistent. Better yet, worry about getting an education so you can have a real job. Unless of course, you just love to be called a Barista.

STOP FREAKING OUT ABOUT UNIMPORTANT ISSUES, YOU ARE THE REASON PEOPLE HATE STARBUCKS. Starbucks IS not a career, get your ass in school and get a REAL JOB. Start putting your efforts into real issues, like Iraq or Afghanistan, or hell, Why Starbucks’ stock is in the toilet….

You are making a g-d cup of coffee – get over yourself already. A monkey could do it.

To all the Partners that Whine and Complain –

Partners should embrace the company that gives them AND the community so much.

Starbucks pays you to do a specific job that YOU agreed to do, if you don’t like it leave. There are pleanty of people out there that would gladly work inplace of you. They would probably even be GREATFUL for the opportunities they are given.

I’ll tell you one thing, if it weren’t for National/State Labor Laws, about 75% of you guys/gals would be unemployed. And that’s the honest truth.

See what was happening there? Multiple commenters dismissed this barista’s concerns with the new promotion because a) they assumed she was fat, and therefore not worth listening to; and/or b) she’s a low-level employee, and therefore not only not worth listening to, but should be damn grateful she even has a job.

Your 21st Century, folks.

And, of course, no discussion of anything called “skinny” is complete without a visit from an Atkins True Believer:

Those of us who are clued in to how many carbs skim milk has versus cream know that a real ‘skinny’ latte is a sugar-free breve.


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113 comments for “Class and weight issues in a cup

  1. January 15, 2008 at 3:55 pm

    I.
    Would.
    Like.
    A.
    Coffee.
    But.
    Could.
    You.
    Put.
    Low-fat.
    Milk.
    In.
    It?
    Thanks.

    14 words to keep the world from making a fool of itself. 15 if we are to consider “low-fat” as two words. 16 if we are to substitute “Thanks.” with “Thank you.”

  2. MJ_
    January 15, 2008 at 3:59 pm

    And we all know that when something in the customer service world goes wrong people complain that the front line people ‘aren’t taking initiative’, or ‘should know better than to follow a policy that doesn’t make sense’. And if they do take initiative, I see they’re told not to. Interesting.

  3. January 15, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    Some of the comments on Starbucks Gossip in general are just awful in this regard. I have only mildly disordered attitudes toward food, but the idea that baristas may be deciding whether I’m too fat to have sugared syrup makes me cringe. I can’t imagine what it must be like for people with full-blown eating disorders to read some of the things that get posted there.

  4. Meredith
    January 15, 2008 at 4:23 pm

    The troll comments are horrible. I read the original post when it first came out and I was shocked.

    Now, (and I’m sorry because you didn’t want to discuss this, but I think it’s a valuable set of points to make…) the only real issues I have with the whole thing are points 1 and 2 that you made, zuzu. Full disclosure: I’m “skinny.” I actually find that term offensive, if only because it seems to imply that I’m just skin, that there’s no substance, and it’s a label generally applied to anorexic celebrities. Sort of like the whole “real women have curves” stuff. So, no, I guess I also have reason to be offended by it. If I order it, it makes me look like an anorexic bimbo trying to cut corners wherever possible to fit into my designer jeans or whatever; if someone else who’s larger orders it, it’s a little embarrassing as you said.

    But really, I don’t give a shit if the guy in line behind me at Starbucks thinks I’ve got an eating disorder. There are bigger fish to fry, and this term has been in use for years anyway to refer to various kinds of drinks. I won’t order one because the sugar-free syrup doesn’t taste good, in my opinion. My little sis got a “skinny” mocha, took two swallows of it, and tossed it. So, point 3… okay, I see where she’s coming from, but it’s a very small point in an overwhelmingly large barrage of negative messages, and in my opinion, those nasty comments and the sentiments behind them are the real concerns here.

  5. Mnemosyne
    January 15, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    I do think that Starbucks is responding to an actual situation. I know that it takes me longer to order because I ask for fat-free milk and decaf coffee. If you’re going to order, say, a Caffe Mocha, with fat-free milk and sugar-free syrup and no whip, you’re taking up time. Condensing it down to a single word to designate all that is better. “Skinny,” though? Why not just make, say, “Sugar Free” mean the same thing?

    As far as the class situation, G. told me about a stripper he heard on NPR who said that her job at Starbucks was far more demeaning than stripping. A customer spit in her face at Starbucks. Try that at even a low-rent strip club, and the bouncers will have you out on your ass.

  6. Shinobi
    January 15, 2008 at 4:42 pm

    I order “Skinny” sandwiches at a local deli. I’m super fat, and in no way offended by the name. I just like the skinny ones because they take out all that extra bread and you can taste the actual sandwich better. Yum.

  7. Pansy P
    January 15, 2008 at 4:43 pm

    STOP FREAKING OUT ABOUT UNIMPORTANT ISSUES, YOU ARE THE REASON PEOPLE HATE STARBUCKS. Starbucks IS not a career, get your ass in school and get a REAL JOB. Start putting your efforts into real issues, like Iraq or Afghanistan, or hell, Why Starbucks’ stock is in the toilet….

    . . . said the person spending their day posting on a Starbucks blog. Nice.

  8. aaaames
    January 15, 2008 at 4:44 pm

    Whenever people are bashing Starbucks, such as the trolls up above, why do they nearly always come back to the fact that baristas shouldn’t be called baristas? I worked at an independent coffeeshop back in my college days, before Starbucks had even infiltrated my city, and my job title was barista. I thought that was just normal…? Do people not want those waiting on them to be allowed a title that conveys any sort of… what? Respect? Authority? Skill? I don’t get it.

  9. January 15, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    As any Los Angeleno will tell you, we don’t say “skinny” in the Starbucks ’round here. We say “non-fat” or “soy”, but never “skinny.” I noticed this when I first tried to order a non-fat grande vanilla latte in Manhattan around 1999 — and got a smirk from the barista, who replaced my “non-fat” with “skinny” when repeating the order back to me.

  10. Sniper
    January 15, 2008 at 5:02 pm

    It’s not “okay” to be overweight or obese, it’s bad for your health, it’s bad for society, it’s bad for health care costs.

    But apparently being a mean-spirited asshate is just fine.

  11. January 15, 2008 at 5:10 pm

    Yuck, those comments are just awful. I especially love the ones where they act like people who work at Starbucks are idiots. If making a coffee/cappuccino/latte is so easy, why don’t you just make your drink at home instead of going to the Starbucks?

    I think it should be a requirement that everyone work a retail job at some point in their lives, it would give people a lot more empathy.

  12. Janis
    January 15, 2008 at 5:16 pm

    The only experience I’ve ever had with nonfat milk in a coffee store (Starbucks and otherwise) is ordering a no-whip drink and having the barista helpfully replace the whole milk I wanted with the tasteless chalk-water I must also of course want.

    No, I want whole milk. I just don’t want whipped cream. Whole milk is lovely in coffee. Whipped cream is repulsive in anything — especially the whipped milk-food-product creme-that’s-spelled-wrong-for-legal-reasons they put in there.

    I once had a half an orea break off into a cup of coffee once, and the resulting iridescent film of oil slick that formed on top of the coffee put me off oreos for the rest of my life. Whipped creme-food-product tastes the same way.

    Whole milk good. Whipped Pasty-White-chemicals not so much. And please don’t second-guess me, helpful barista. I ordered exactly what I wanted.

    This barely tangentially related whine brought to you by the fact that I haven’t had lunch yet.

  13. Janis
    January 15, 2008 at 5:18 pm

    In terms of the cost to society, I’d say fatness is pretty far down compared with having a genetic propensity towards religious fanaticism. Those people are EXPENSIVE.

  14. Rika
    January 15, 2008 at 5:35 pm

    Janis I’d just like to say that I think the whipped cream is the best part, and I also LIKE skim milk and hate whole milk. You don’t have to insult other people’s tastes…

    Also, people seem to want to justify putting down obese people because being fat is unhealthy and ends up costing society and whatnot…

    But that can’t be the whole story, can it? Because smoking is unhealthy too and smokers don’t get nearly the grief that overweight people get, at least in my experience.

  15. January 15, 2008 at 5:43 pm

    Those were… a lot of comments.

    Such rage…

  16. louise
    January 15, 2008 at 5:56 pm

    I especially love the ones where they act like people who work at Starbucks are idiots.

    I agree with that, but that said…

    The last time I stopped to get a coffee on I-95, the only choice was a Starbucks. So I asked for a regular coffee with milk- nothing fancy. The woman just couldn’t get past the fact that I didn’t want some sort of silly-assed sweet flavored syrupy coffee or at least STEAMED milk! I finally said, “Look- I want a regular coffee with milk- just like you probably had in your kitchen this morning. OKAY???”

    She and her coworkers stared like I had lobsters crawling out of my ears. Next time, I’ll wait until I’m off the interstate to fetch a coffee somewhere else. No more Starbucks for me!

  17. Betsy
    January 15, 2008 at 5:57 pm

    I think it should be a requirement that everyone work a retail job at some point in their lives, it would give people a lot more empathy.

    Seriously. I don’t, and never have, worked retail, but the entitlement some people seem to feel about being served disgusts me. I was doubly struck by the dehumanization of service workers in the comments. Maybe I shouldn’t be, but I thought that even Republicans believed that work is honorable. At least that’s what they seem to say. But those people seemed to think that simply doing a low-level service job made the blogger beneath contempt, beneath dignity, without even the right to have thoughts in her head, beneath human. How horrifying.

  18. louise
    January 15, 2008 at 5:59 pm

    And your point of “bringing your own” is an excellent point, sushi- except I drink coffee pretty much non-stop from 5 am to noon and would need a few Thermoses for long road trips! :)

  19. arled
    January 15, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    I just want to add that I am 50 years old, 5 foot 4 inches tall, weigh 170, and, based upon the apparent expertise of various “weight loss experts” I have been categorized as “obese”. Well I ain’t obese. I am of average size and weight. I wear a size 16 women or a size 36 waist. I and my fellow averageists are typical of the average american woman. Just because you live in LA, are 5 foot 7, weigh 102, wear a size zero and regularly shop at Bebe does not mean you are normal. It means that you have to do really disgusting things to your body to keep it at that size and weight. I ain’t willin’ to do those things to my body. I prefer to eat sensibly and get moderate exercise and live my life happily. So all you trolls and trollopes who vomit after gorging can think you’re normal but you ain’t.
    So There.

  20. Janis
    January 15, 2008 at 6:22 pm

    OMFG Rika, I made a victim out of you over your COFFEE PREFERENCES. How COULD I have been so thoughtless.

    Should I now state that my mother prefers nonfat milk and so no overarching cultural oppression was intended?

  21. Pansy P
    January 15, 2008 at 6:36 pm

    Louise –

    I always make a point of ordering a “medium coffee” at Starbucks. They’re nearly always good about it, but it amuses me that they have to translate my order to a “grande” to actually process it.

  22. Mnemosyne
    January 15, 2008 at 6:46 pm

    I finally said, “Look- I want a regular coffee with milk- just like you probably had in your kitchen this morning. OKAY???”

    I hate to tell ya, louise, but the reason they thought you were a crazy person is that the milk is self-serve — it’s kept off to the side where the sugar and stirrers are. They were thinking, “Why can’t she turn around and walk to the table where the milk is like everyone else instead of demanding special service?”

    No offense intended, just a little teasing about your Starbucks naivete. :-)

  23. evil fizz
    January 15, 2008 at 7:03 pm

    OMFG Rika, I made a victim out of you over your COFFEE PREFERENCES. How COULD I have been so thoughtless.

    Dude, calm down. You can enjoy your own coffee without freaking out about what other people are drinking.

  24. Vail
    January 15, 2008 at 7:05 pm

    I think that the “reorganization” and other type of consulting crap that was in vogue in the 90’s screwed things for retail people. It’s taught the customer that they are always right (even when they aren’t) and that retail people are there for their use. I hated how people thought that they had the right to use a nickname for me (I never ever used a nickname) and act like they were my best friend. I don’t know them, and just because I’m wearing a name tag doesn’t mean you can chirp little cutesy names at me. I remember once I got yelled at for not babysitting for some guy who wanted to dump his kid in our store while he was off somewhere else. I’ve been yelled at, been called stupid, asked my health status and basically made to feel like a poorly paid uneducated maid. I guess it’s easy to make themselves feel better by treating retail clerks like servants. I must say though I had some wonderful customers who treated me like a human being. It would make me smile even when I was having a crappy day when people took the time to say thanks for my help.

  25. AnneThropologist
    January 15, 2008 at 7:06 pm

    If I patronized Starbucks (I prefer my local store), I would DEFINITELY go in and order a “Grande white mocha … make it a CHUBBY!”

  26. maatnofret
    January 15, 2008 at 7:09 pm
  27. threemilechild
    January 15, 2008 at 7:11 pm

    Enough places I’ve gone have had trouble with things like, “No whipped cream, low foam, no sprinkles” that I was pretty happy to get what I asked for at Starbucks, even if the coffee was foul and the chocolate syrup overly sweet. Granted, I’ve had exactly two experiences of Starbucks, but the barristas in both cases were only mildly amused at my lack of size-ordering knowledge, and the one I ordered a mocha from followed directions better than your Standard Snotty Coffeehouse Barrista.

    Incidentally, I don’t know what part of I-95 you were on, but around the Eastern PA/Delaware area, go to Wawa! Wawa coffee is delicious! (And their sandwiches aren’t half bad, either.) They don’t do coffee drinks, but they have a large bar with all kinds of sugars and syrups and milks and flavoured crap, so you can have whatever flavour coffee you want.)

  28. Raging Moderate
    January 15, 2008 at 7:29 pm

    Because smoking is unhealthy too and smokers don’t get nearly the grief that overweight people get, at least in my experience.

    I’m a smoker, and I usually get reminded at least once a week that I should quit. Often just “because it’s gross”.

  29. January 15, 2008 at 7:33 pm

    Why the hell does starbucks brass refuse to call coffee drinks what they are supposed to be called? They’ve already created an enormous obnoxious mess with their insistence on calling something that is not a ‘macchiato’ a ‘macchiato’.

    I swear, they’re going to invent a dairy drink and call it a ‘soy caramel (pick a random Italian word)’, and then the world will end.

  30. Alicia
    January 15, 2008 at 7:57 pm

    In response to Janis (and as a snotty former Starbucks barista): The whipped cream isn’t store bought, the baristas make it over the course of the day with heavy whipping cream and vanilla, so it’s fresh. Just thought I’d enlighten the masses a little on the inner-workings of Starbucks.

    And yes, it is a ridiculously demeaning job. Reading the internal thoughts of those people who really think that no barista IS going to college makes me cringe, as I was making my way through while working there and having people take all of their issues out on me (“I won’t say tall, grande, or venti! WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE!!!”) It’s insane the vitriol people feel towards baristas.

  31. Alicia
    January 15, 2008 at 8:02 pm

    # Pansy P says:
    January 15th, 2008 at 6:36 pm – Edit

    Louise –

    I always make a point of ordering a “medium coffee” at Starbucks. They’re nearly always good about it, but it amuses me that they have to translate my order to a “grande” to actually process it.

    What’s the point of that, when you know the word that’s preferred in the context?

  32. louise
    January 15, 2008 at 8:03 pm

    Good to know in case of desperate coffee need, Mnemosyne! :) I just figured since they had the ability to steam the stuff that they probably had it back there anyways… had I known that, I could have asked for “big plain coffee”. Would they have been able to do that?

    BTW, PansyP- I asked for a “big” coffee- if “medium” translates to “grande”, what is a big coffee called?

    I feel like such a beverage virgin!! Maine doesn’t have alot of Starbucks (although there are some)- I usually hit the local gas stations.

  33. louise
    January 15, 2008 at 8:05 pm

    “Grande” is a canyon, not a coffee- that’s why. Just because they want to be pretentious is no reason why folks have to play along.

  34. louise
    January 15, 2008 at 8:08 pm

    And to further expose my lack of knowledge…

    What the hell is a “barista”??

  35. evil fizz
    January 15, 2008 at 8:14 pm

    (”I won’t say tall, grande, or venti! WE SPEAK ENGLISH HERE!!!”)

    That’s admittedly bizarre, but I do understand the aversion to gimmicky names for small/medium/large. (Coldstone Creamery is the worst in that regard, i.e., like it/love/gotta have it.) I’m also baffled by tall being the smallest.

    Regarding the whole “get a real job”, food service is a real job. And there were plenty of people I worked with while I was a server during college for whom it was a real job. There shouldn’t be any shame or judgment attached to gainful employment.

  36. louise
    January 15, 2008 at 8:18 pm

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barista

    Oh, this is the silliest damn thing I’ve ever heard of. OMFG…

  37. Cymbal
    January 15, 2008 at 8:34 pm

    The whole tall/grane/venti thing is waaaay too much thinking for me to do pre-coffee. I just say ‘small’ or ‘large’ or whatever. They generally figure it out.

    On the same note, having to say ‘skinny’ rather then ‘non-fat no-whip sugar-free’ appeals to me simply because it’s one word rather than six. I am not verbal before coffee. Though, I usually just order a regular coffee and grab some non-fat milk at the coffee bar. Less talking that way.

    That said. The whole thin/low-fat = VIRTUE! PURESNOW MARTYR! thing can die. In a fire. PLZ. I eat the low-fat stuff I eat because it agrees with my body. Heavier/richer foods give me gas if I eat em all the time. So I don’t. But the whole fucking virtue angle pisses me right off. It’s FOOD. Not sins and virtue. Food.

    Maybe when I order my FUCKING VIRTUOUS coffee I’ll just like, casually mention that I fucked a guy just for kicks last night and that I also ate chocolate cake (which I do sometimes) also just for kicks. So people will be faced with a conundrum. My drink is soooo martyrly! And yet, clearly they will also feel I am a big SLUT for being female and having- ever!- TEH SEX! And also a huge sinner sinner sinner for eating cake. Dude. I’ll let people balance that one in their own heads in the shop if they want. I just want my fucking coffee. With less talking. Maybe I can just shorten it to “Medium skinny americano plz. I have sex and sometimes eat cake.” And maybe the barista can yell “grande skinny americano for the fat gluttonous sinner slut!” And it’ll all balance out.

    So, yeah.. point? The societal idea of food as sin is dumb. Color me unsurprised that ten zillion fatophobic trolls jumped on that post on the starbucks blog. But aside from all that crap, I wouldn’t mind being able to order my drink with one word rather then ten zillion.

  38. January 15, 2008 at 8:38 pm

    This Angelino confirms; it’s a grande non-fat latte for me!

    I’m a diehard Starbucks person, so I’m the fool ordering a grande whenever I go anywhere else. (Uh, I mean, uh, medium?) Further, I order my boyfriend a regular coffee all the time, and it’s no problem. I love Starbucks because my latte absolutely always tastes exactly like I expect it to – delicious! And the baristas, particularly in the morning, are super fast.

    These comments you’ve quoted are so hateful. I think I’m too innocent, but I just don’t get the hate, and the way people jump to conclusions that suit them. Truly, it seems to be a way of commenting, these odd assumptions followed by hateful comments. I don’t get it. Why do people do that?

    Her post (agree or disagree) was totally thoughtful and constructive. It’s so hard to understand why people comment like that.

  39. Mnemosyne
    January 15, 2008 at 8:47 pm

    I have to admit, I’m another person who says “small” so I don’t have to take another look at the menu to remember that “tall” means “small,” but “venti” means “large.”

    But, then, I am lazy, which explains much.

    Regarding the whole “get a real job”, food service is a real job. And there were plenty of people I worked with while I was a server during college for whom it was a real job. There shouldn’t be any shame or judgment attached to gainful employment.

    Even if that specific job isn’t one you stay in forever, crappy food service jobs can prepare you to move up. I was watching “Ace of Cakes” one time and Duff was singing the praises of working at McDonald’s as a teenager because it taught him so much about cleanliness, food handling, etc. And, hey, now he’s a millionaire who owns his own bakery and has a TV show on the Food Network, so I guess he doesn’t have to worry about finding a “real job.”

  40. January 15, 2008 at 8:57 pm

    Right, the person objecting must be fat, because no thin person could ever possibly object to fat-bashing. And no fat person is allowed to have an opinion about anything, because being fat means you are a dumb cow and a permanent member of the servant class, if the Royal We allows you to leave the house at all. And all these people who object to the very idea of fat people being allowed to hold jobs and speak their minds because fat people are soooo unhealtheeee have no vices or peccadillos whatsoever themselves. Super careful behind the wheel, never drink too much, never have unprotected sex, never lie or backstab or screw anyone over at work, are complete and total role models of utterly sustainable selflessness and decency. Yeah, and rabbits lay colored eggs.

  41. January 15, 2008 at 9:01 pm

    1) Cymbal is teh lulz.

    2) I only drink Starbucks if I’m in a bind and have to hit a drive-thru, mostly because we have awesome local coffee shops that deserve the business more. But when I do go there, I order a venti soy latte, a word combination that nevereverever seems to register on the drive-thru mic. Which means I’m sitting in my car screaming at a poor barista indoors with a headset for five minutes and probably could have gone indoors and gotten the coffee in less time anyway.

    I find it funny that my regular drink combo seems to have been converted to the skinny, virtuous masses. At work I just mix some hot chocolate into my coffee and call it a mocha.

  42. Banisteriopsis
    January 15, 2008 at 9:05 pm

    What’s the point of that, when you know the word that’s preferred in the context?

    hehe I used to do that too. I did it because Starbucks doesn’t serve coffee. They serve coffee flavored beverages. The fact that coffee is the base is really secondary to their product. Also because their coffee. is. awful. Nothing Starbucks sells can touch a cup of Jamaican Blue Mountain. Starbucks makes a point of being rigidly formal about how they refer to their coffee, but the product itself is only decent at best. It’s like the act of ordering becomes an affectation, and I don’t want any part of that bullshit.

    But mostly now I try to work with the clerk to get me through their field of vision as quickly as possible, even when I have to do stupid shit like go find a manager to let me buy razor blade refills. It’s not fair to dump on the clerk. They’re just trying to get through the day and go home.

  43. FashionablyEvil
    January 15, 2008 at 9:08 pm

    I think it should be a requirement that everyone work a retail job at some point in their lives, it would give people a lot more empathy.

    Yep. It’s STAGGERING the things people will do to people who work in the service industry. I used to work at Pottery Barn and was showing a woman sheets and made a comment to the effect of “My boyfriend and I have these–they’re great.” She then proceeded to lecture me about how I was giving the milk away for free (is that a pun given the Starbucks theme?), and how I was never going to get him to give me an engagement ring, etc, etc. Nevermind that I didn’t want an engagement ring. I’m eternally thankful, however, that no one ever spat on me.

    /threadjack

  44. January 15, 2008 at 9:23 pm

    It’s stupid to use the word “skinny” for skim/aspartame/no whip version. “Skinny” already has an established meaning, i.e., an espresso drink made with non-fat milk.

    If Starbucks wants a shorthand for the low cal options package, they should choose at least use an adjective that doesn’t already refer to something similar, but not always equivalent.

    I used to be a barista at Starbucks. Sugar syrup was vastly more popular than sugar-free, even among the non-fat milk partisans.

    What’s in a skinny mocha? Non-fat milk, no whip. But last I checked the same amount of full-fat chocolate syrup goes into all versions of the mocha. “Skinny” is just going to confuse customers indefinitely and annoy them. People are really emotionally involved with getting their drink EXACTLY the way they ordered it.

    Glad to hear the whipped cream is still the real deal.

  45. January 15, 2008 at 9:28 pm

    Given the price Starbucks charges for a designer coffee, the customer should get what s/he orders. I’m just saying that Starbucks is setting itself up for acrimony and delay for the foreseeable future by instituting this “skinny” category that means something different at Starbucks than it does anywhere else.

  46. Lazer
    January 15, 2008 at 9:41 pm

    Yet again, marketing a product with promises of sainthood…er…thinness. Because as undesirables in this otherwise noble society, our non-existence is our only and ultimate virtue. That and our eternal commitment to the consumption of their product. I’m getting kinda tired of the way the obesity issue is just being handled in every wrong way you can imagine, from treating it as some moral issue and fat-shaming (while feigning “concern for health”), to profiting from the “disease” status by selling all kinds of snake oil and magic potions as a “cure”.
    Besides, if you really want to cut calories while enjoying your coffee, develop a taste for espresso. Start ordering a double espresso and revel in the confused reactions you get (“and what size did you want? what kind of milk did you want in that?” “No milk???” “JUST the eXpresso???” No offense to those who work at Starbucks…I understand that not everyone’s an espresso fiend like myself, but I still find those reactions amusing.) And do as the Italians do (they did, after all, develop all those espresso drinks). Cappuccino (equal parts espresso, whole milk and foam, not the glorified caffe latte Starbucks or any other chain sells, and definitely not that powdered “French Vanilla” shit!) in the morning. Espresso only afterwards. The easiest way to tell if someone’s a tourist in Italy is if they order a cappuccino or (god forbid) a caffe latte after dinner, with dessert. Oh, and drinking from a 20 oz paper bucket is pretty much unheard of anywhere except in North America. Of course, this concept would not make nearly as much money for Starbucks, as would the release of a completely new and improved, but ultimately useless, product.
    Okay, I’m shutting up now. I seriously could rant on and on for hours about how much I hate Starbucks, while at the same time giving them partial credit for my crazy espresso addiction…(as a high school kid, I did make it a point to stop by the Starbucks every afternoon for my daily grande nonfat caramel macchiato, which I guess may have been my gateway drug. Now the mere thought of that much milk and sugar makes me sick.)

  47. Kristen
    January 15, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    Also because their coffee. is. awful. Nothing Starbucks sells can touch a cup of Jamaican Blue Mountain.

    Graffeo. Best. coffee. ever.

    Of course I get a drink at Starbucks once or twice a week. I agree with the sentiment that few words early in the morning are good. As it is my coffee order takes to many words….

    Option1: Decaf venti skim no-whip white mocha latte
    OptionB: Decaf venti skim sugar-free vanilla latte

    On bad mornings, I have a tendency to mix up the words or leave out important words.

    I long for my old coffee stand where I merely grunted a Dave and he made my coffee…but the I had caffeine…ahhh…those were the days….

  48. labradog
    January 15, 2008 at 9:59 pm

    I’ll pay $4 for a cup of coffee, as long as it comes in “small, medium, or large”, and it’s served by a java jerk.
    The pseudo Italian jive is too pretentious. Even if Starbucks didn’t invent it.

  49. January 15, 2008 at 10:22 pm

    When I used to work at Seattle’s Best (before it got bought out by Starbucks, le sigh), a non-fat decaf no-whip drink was called a “why-bother.” As in, the customer would order a tall non-fat decaf mocha, no whip, and the cashier would say to whoever was on bar, “tall why bother mocha.”

    Might have been a location thing, but the customers seemed to get a kick out of it.

  50. January 15, 2008 at 10:31 pm

    *wrinkles nose* Well, I guess that’ll just be one more thing to contend with. It’s already annoying to have to ask people whether they mean medium (16 oz) or large (20 oz) when they say “grande,” or whether they mean small (12 oz) or large (20 oz) when they say “tall,” because Starbucks has apparently confused the hell out of everybody. I usually just explain to huffy customers that we always ask to ensure accuracy, because I’ve found that people from the southwest tend to say “tall” for 20 oz drinks despite “tall” tending to mean 12 oz everyplace else (Starbucks influence) — but you won’t believe how insulted they can get, if they think you’re asking to be snobby about it.

    And while I normally wouldn’t consider a Starbucks employee a barista — especially if they use the superautomatic espresso machines, because you know, pushing buttons doesn’t exactly require skill — I find it insulting that people think of us as just coffee monkeys. I bet ninety percent of the people saying that wouldn’t be able to make even a cafe au lait (or a misto, as Starbucks has taken to calling them — a coffee with steamed milk), much less pull a decent shot of espresso, or gods forbid, pour a cappuccino. Asshats.

  51. Meredith
    January 15, 2008 at 10:56 pm

    I just want to say that I am amazed at the amount of vitriol and bitterness on this thread. Coffee is serious business, yo. :)

  52. bonsai
    January 15, 2008 at 11:00 pm

    I’m a barista at Starbucks. I LOVE working at Starbucks. But this promotion is pretty over-the-top and my coworkers and I were drafting letters to the higher-ups the same day we heard about the “skinny” platform in mid-December. It’s abhorrent. (The sugar-free mocha syrup is also abhorrent. It tastes like watered-down kahlua mixed with cardboard, and it stains your skin/clothes.)

    With regards to the original letter by the barista: Point (3) is definitely the most important one to the outside world, but within starbucks corp/management, the letter would just get tossed away as unimportant without the points about the cup marking/calling system. I work in a drive-through (I know, I work at a starbucks drive-through and I love my job. everyone in these comments hates me by now.) and it’s incredibly hard to get people to consider the employees as human beings, let alone get them to communicate effectively about their drink orders. The skinny platform really HAS made it ten billlion times harder to take an order and make it properly. So I’ve actually been calling drinks back as “sugar free x nonfat” rather than “skinny” just because 50% of the time, people really don’t mean it. Ok, end tangent, back to the point.

    My crowd of coworkers is lovely for many reasons, but somehow we’re almost all nutrition junkies and giant feminists, so we hopped on it right away.

    To be really honest, although I find the new platform completely infuriating, I’m almost — ALMOST — glad they used the word “skinny” instead of something like “healthy’ because the new drinks AREN’T healthy, and they don’t mean to say that they’re healthy. A venti sugar-free vanilla nonfat latte is only very superficially related to health, it’s mostly related to being self-involved and appearance obsessed in the same way that being skinny is related to “health.”

  53. Roxie
    January 15, 2008 at 11:01 pm

    Those comments really hurt. Those where the things I used to believe people thought when they saw me. Especially when they saw me eating. i used to believe they were right and I’d eat in the bathroom.

    I eventually got over it, thinking that it was none of their business, they shouldn’t be so judgmental and how self-centered must I be to think they’re thinking of me at all?

    And now I read these comments and it’s true. That’s what they really were thinking. It makes me want to cry.

    I don’t understand how people can say/think/type this things. I’m not allowed to have feelings or an opinion or drink anything at all b/c of I’m fat? Cheers.

  54. January 15, 2008 at 11:10 pm

    And now I read these comments and it’s true. That’s what they really were thinking. It makes me want to cry.

    Yes, but don’t forget, this is what loser assholes who spend their days trolling on the Starbucks blog to get reactions from people were thinking. And why give those loser assholes power over you?

  55. zuzu
    January 15, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    OMFG Rika, I made a victim out of you over your COFFEE PREFERENCES. How COULD I have been so thoughtless.

    Should I now state that my mother prefers nonfat milk and so no overarching cultural oppression was intended?

    Dude, you had a breakdown over an OREO getting into your coffee and you’re going to flip out on someone like this? Hello, pot.

    But last I checked the same amount of full-fat chocolate syrup goes into all versions of the mocha.

    Chocolate syrup doesn’t actually have fat (it’s essentially simple syrup with cocoa and maybe vanilla), but it’s loaded with sugar. It looked like from the discussion that the “skinny mocha” will be using some kind of sugar-free syrup.

  56. Meredith
    January 15, 2008 at 11:20 pm

    To clarify so I’m not misread: I was referring to the bitterness and vitriol about coffee terminology, sizes, and Starbucks in general. We feminists sure take caffeination with the utmost gravity.

  57. Kat
    January 15, 2008 at 11:45 pm

    This whole argument seems very silly. Australia: people use “skinny” to order a coffee made with skim milk, society has not yet fallen.

    Example of use: “I’d like a skinny cappucino.” Everyone gets on with their day.

    I would like to point out that we are actually buying coffee at the time, and not “coffee-flavoured beverage” as someone helpfully described earlier.

  58. bonsai
    January 15, 2008 at 11:47 pm

    oh! one good thing that came out of the “skinny” drinks & surrounding controversey is that it got my coworkers and i chatting enough that we decided to start a women’s studies book club for ourselves. (and yes, most of us do have college degrees or are currently working on them! such is the Portland job market.)

  59. January 15, 2008 at 11:53 pm

    I fucking hate people. Dear god I don’t believe in, please strike the earth with a meteorite and get it over with.

  60. Riva
    January 15, 2008 at 11:55 pm

    Wow, is saying all of the first troll-y comments still a kosher thing to do? That’s pretty troubling.

    Imagine inserting different words for ‘black’ or ‘female’ in these troll’s comments, instead of different words for ‘fat’. Would this shit still fly? Would different opinions be ok then? Oops, I forgot that people who aren’t the ‘norm’ aren’t allowed to have opinions; in fact, they probably aren’t real people.

    (by the way, the last sentence was a joke, please don’t rip me to shreds)

  61. Cymbal
    January 16, 2008 at 12:10 am

    I was trying to write a cogent reply but it just turned into a rant.

    And now I read these comments and it’s true. That’s what they really were thinking. It makes me want to cry.

    Yes, but don’t forget, this is what loser assholes who spend their days trolling on the Starbucks blog to get reactions from people were thinking. And why give those loser assholes power over you?

    That’s more or less what I was trying to say.

    Also my experience is that assholes like that make nasty petty snotty little judgments about every woman they see, anyway. If she’s bigger then size 0 they’re all ‘omg fatty!’ If she’s somehow close to the ideal, they go ‘omg slut!’ Can’t win. They’re morons, it’s what they do.

    Shorter me: those people suck.

  62. January 16, 2008 at 1:54 am

    I’m also baffled by tall being the smallest.

    They used to have a smaller size – called short. I think you can technically still order it, but it’s not on the menu. I’m guessing it’s the same cup they use for the kid’s drinks.

  63. Cindy
    January 16, 2008 at 2:46 am

    Short is now the kid’s size, Mickle. You can still order any hot drink as a short.

    When I worked at Starbucks a customer bit me. He was a regular customer and an otherwise normal guy, until one day he walked around the bar and bit me while I was pulling shots. He was shocked that I was angry.

    Starbucks can be a great company to work for– health coverage at 20 hours a week and same-sex partner benefits come to mind– but baristas/java jerks/what have you get treated like garbage. And honestly, most stores sell FAR more plain, drip coffee than anything else; I seriously doubt that asking for a medium coffee would stump everyone working the floor.

  64. Z. M. Davis
    January 16, 2008 at 3:24 am

    I had hypothesized that the skinny platform was a New Year’s thing–meant to capitalize on people’s resolutions to “cut back.” It’ll be gone by late February.

  65. Adam
    January 16, 2008 at 3:26 am

    I don’t understand the Starbucks hate everyone seems to have. I think Lindsay’s comment makes the most sense for why ‘skinny’ shouldn’t be used, but that being said, if a significant number of people order there beverages with skim milk and sugar free syrup, coming up with a single word name to designate that isn’t crazy.

    A number of things of note:
    Starbucks uses Italian adjectives on its menu; therefore, it makes sense that you won’t find cafe au lait. I don’t think cafe misto is actually used in Italy, though it would be translated as ‘mixed coffee’

    In Italy, the place you go for your coffee is called ‘il bar’. The title of the person working at ‘il bar’ is ‘barista’ because in general, titles can be made that way in Italian (well… some job titles and adherents to an idealogy, ie communista).

    As noted above, tall isn’t the smallest size, it’s one up from short. Grande means big and venti means 20 (as in 20 ounces).

    While ‘macchiato’ in the context of ‘caramel macchiato’ doesn’t means what it would mean in Italy
    (a cafe macchiato is espresso with a touch of milk and a latte macchiato is a steamed milk with a touch of espresso), it does fit with the literal meaning of macchiato (marked or stained). That is, your latte is stained with caramel syrup on top.

    Starbucks coffee isn’t horrible. It’s pretty decent – I’m not saying it’s the best you can get, but it’s pretty darn good. After experimenting with roasting my own coffee, I’m beginning to think they could roast a touch lighter, but really, that’s squabbling. Their coffee is a whole hell of a lot better than the drek previous known in america (the stuff of convenience store fame).

  66. January 16, 2008 at 9:00 am

    I tried to find the article after this was posted yesterday, but there was even a previous article/set of comments where an employee bragged about putting sugar-free syrup in the drinks of people he/she considered too fat. Fortunately, someone pointed out that this could cause allergy issues and great big lawsuits.

    And for the record, I’m on the low end of “normal” on the goofy ol’ BMI, but I know someone somewhere thinks I’m too fat. They’d just better not be screwing with my food.

  67. wriggles
    January 16, 2008 at 9:20 am

    Re no.3, If the use of the term ‘skinny was going to irk anyone, I would have thought it would be those naturally slender people that get very fed up of being shrilly accused of being anorexic, or assumed to be on some permanent stringent diet.

  68. January 16, 2008 at 11:43 am

    I tried to find the article after this was posted yesterday, but there was even a previous article/set of comments where an employee bragged about putting sugar-free syrup in the drinks of people he/she considered too fat.

    Wow, s/he’d hate to have me as a customer, because I can taste both Splenda and Nutrasweet very clearly and I’d be taking my cup back up to tell her s/he made a mistake and to please make it again with the right syrup.

    But I prefer Coffee Bean anyway, so I hardly ever go to Starbucks.

  69. January 16, 2008 at 12:12 pm

    And your point of “bringing your own” is an excellent point, sushi- except I drink coffee pretty much non-stop from 5 am to noon and would need a few Thermoses for long road trips! :)

    Of course! I only meant that for the people who acted like it was so easy to work at Starbucks. I imagine if those kinds of people had to make their own coffee and prepare their own food for a week they would starve or die of caffeine withdrawal.

    I worked at various retail jobs on and off from the time I was 15 until I was 22 when I got an office job after college. I always make a point to be pleasant to people who work in retail or food service because I know how awful some people can be. The most memorable thing was a lady who shoved a cake off the counter at a friend of mine when we were working at a bakery.

  70. Mustella
    January 16, 2008 at 12:19 pm

    I think that the vitriol expressed towards the tall/grande/venti nonsense is not really directed towards the baristas but towards the coporation that came up with three words all meaning “large” to refer to three different sizes. I also hate ordering a mc-whatever sandwich- I won’t say the mc, as I’m nobody’s little parrot. The sizing thing is confusing everywhere, and it’s better not to use a particular company’s corporate bullshit jargon if you are not sure about it- how many people really want that huge bucket that gets passed off as a medium in fast food?

    I’ve always thought that everyone should have a year of cumpulsory retail/food service work, just to teach them not to be jerks to the people waiting on them, but I also HATE having some crap corporation try and make me regurgitate their made-up marketing words.

  71. evil fizz
    January 16, 2008 at 12:21 pm

    The most memorable thing was a lady who shoved a cake off the counter at a friend of mine when we were working at a bakery.

    I feel like we could have a whole separate thread devoted to “where did you get the idea that this is acceptable behavor?” While I was waiting tables, I had a woman stand on her chair in the middle of the dining room and scream at me for “lying to her” and “copping an attitude” while I was basically just open mouthed with shock and trying to escape to the kitchen to get her order fixed after the line cooks made a mistake.

    Of course, all the comments in that thread provoke the same sort of reaction from me: “Where did you get the idea that it was okay to talk like that?”

  72. January 16, 2008 at 12:27 pm

    See what was happening there? Multiple commenters dismissed this barista’s concerns with the new promotion because a) they assumed she was fat, and therefore not worth listening to; and/or b) she’s a low-level employee, and therefore not only not worth listening to, but should be damn grateful she even has a job.

    Your 21st Century, folks.

    Zuzu, you’re my new blog crush! (((kiss))) Great post.

    I’m just amazed how hatred of fat enters EVERY ASPECT OF LIFE THESE DAYS, even a damn cuppa coffee. Is there no rest, no break, anywhere?

  73. Violetfishy
    January 16, 2008 at 12:28 pm

    I find it utterly baffling that there are people out there who seem to think that because someone is overweight then they can be as mean as they want about them and it will somehow be a socially acceptable thing to do!

    I will admit that I do fit into the definition of thin…I am quite skinny. But I also do literally no exercise and smoke. Surely, I am also costing the health services then?

    I find comments like these appalling…why do people think it’s okay to say things like that? Or even to BELIEVE them? Do people say these things in real life too? It’s easy to get away with whatever offensive thing you like on the internet, because you’re never going to have to answer to it in any meaningful way. So, I would like to know…has any experienced someone expressing such sentiments as that offline? By strangers?

  74. Sniper
    January 16, 2008 at 12:39 pm

    I would have thought it would be those naturally slender people that get very fed up of being shrilly accused of being anorexic, or assumed to be on some permanent stringent diet.

    Please. This is the fat acceptance equivalent of “What about the menz!?!?!?!” Yes, the naturally thin have problems and atr sometimes unfairly slammed (and often unfairly praised), but they don’t attract anything like the sheer vitriol that fat people deal with all the fucking time.

  75. Rose
    January 16, 2008 at 12:41 pm

    Adam, I’ve always wanted to know this and maybe you can give me an answer. I figure since I have to order my Starbucks in Italian that Starbucks in Italy would make you order in English, like Grande there is a Big Gulp and Venti a Really Huge Gulp or something like that. Am I right?

  76. January 16, 2008 at 12:43 pm

    Reading over this thread, my only thought is, OMG…people go to Starbucks?

  77. wayloopy
    January 16, 2008 at 1:12 pm

    What’s interesting is that with all the blather about “who cares if fat people are offended they need to be so they lose weight and aren’t such a drag on society so why should a major corporation care?” is that OF COURSE THEY SHOULD CARE. Just like the make-up of society, a large percentage of their customers are probably clinically obese. If they offend them, $$$ walks out the door. It should be VERY important to them.

    Every point the Barista makes could directly impact the bottom line of the company and should be worth discussion at headquarters. I regularly walk out of coffee places when the line is too long and slow due to ordering confusion/complexity/mistakes. The commenters aren’t very business-savvy.

    She’s absolutely right about defining the skinny drink too narrowly. I lighten the load by asking for fewer of the sugared flavor pumps, rather than using the sugar free because it tastes terrible. I also sometimes order soy hot chocolate because I like the flavor and always have to ask for whip because otherwise it’s assumped I am ordering soy because I don’t want lactose. People are so used to very complex ordering at SB, that I can’t see this helping much.

    I have to agree with the original post on the fat-ism, sexism, and classism of the trolling. When did people decide it’s ok to be so cruel to each other? So many people don’t have any manners, patience, or common courtesy anymore. I blame the inflamed political polarization (often times along class lines) of the last twenty years on top of unresolved sexism. And don’t even get me started on fat hating. Ugh – how do we unwind this?

  78. Cap'n Colleen
    January 16, 2008 at 2:05 pm

    Ok…I’m a former Starbucks employee. Just as a disclaimer, I was asked to take a leave of absence because they thought I needed “to develop a passion for the company”. Yes, that’s right, folks. I didn’t love Starbucks enough so they took me off the schedule until I came back with more flair. Of course, I didn’t go back. I felt it was better to retain my self-respect.

    Anywho…I’m a little bitter.

    The biggest problem I see with the skinny platform is that Starbucks is once again taking a word that has a widely-understood meaning in coffee talk and making it mean something else. This will only lead to confusion. When I worked at Starbucks (and at every coffee shop I worked at afterwards) many customers used the word “skinny” to mean non-fat milk. That didn’t mean no whip cream or sugar-free syrup or anything other than non-fat milk. The company might pretend they’re doing it to shorten drink orders, but I can assure you they’re doing it to make life harder for every non-Starbucks barista in the world.

    No seriously.

    The macchiato fiasco is a perfect example of that. Sure, because “macchiato” means marked and a Carmel Macchiato is marked (although it’s the espresso that is supposedly marking it, not the carmel…because espresso leaves a little dark spot when you pour it through the foam…sigh…), that doesn’t make it a macchiato. The espresso macchiato (espresso with a drop of foam on top) has been around for a very very long time. Espresso drinkers and baristas knew what a macchiato was before Starbucks came up with that sickeningly sweet really-a-latte-but-sounds-so-much-fancier bullshit.

    And now if you order a macchiato at a non-Starbucks establishment, they have to clarify whether you want a real macchiato or a Starbucks macchiato. It’s ridiculous.

    They want Starbucks vocabulary to permeate all coffee establishments so that we never forget how much influence Starbucks has on our coffee habits, whether or not we ever go there.

    And, not to sound insensitive, but to all those people who say it takes too many words to order their beverage and it would be easier to just say “skinny”, did it ever occur to you to just…oh, I dunno, not be so complicated? I mean, you have every right to order your beverage exactly how you want it, but just because it’s become incredibly popular (and common) to place super-specific beverage orders, that doesn’t mean that it’s everyone else’s responsibility to make that easier for you. I mean seriously…if it’s that complicated, you could always just order something else.

    Sigh…I know I sound like a crazy person, but Starbucks really…well…I just fucking hate them.

  79. January 16, 2008 at 2:23 pm

    but Starbucks really…well…I just fucking hate them.

    I lived for a summer with a Starbucks employee, who was also fired for not embedding a Starbucks microchip in her brain that would cause he to love the company and the customers.

    The best part of her getting fired was on her way out the door she walked off with a case of frappuchino mix and we spent the rest of the summer having vodka frappuchinos,.

    But yes, I mean, everything everyone has been saying in this post is a good point, and the fat-bashing in our culture is really just ridiculous, but come on. Starbucks? Really, all of you go there? Why are you paying six dollars for what you could get at Dunkin Donuts for two? Or better yet, at a cool local coffee shop?

  80. Mnemosyne
    January 16, 2008 at 2:33 pm

    Cap’n Colleen: And, not to sound insensitive, but to all those people who say it takes too many words to order their beverage and it would be easier to just say “skinny”, did it ever occur to you to just…oh, I dunno, not be so complicated?

    Hey, here’s an idea, I’ll stop taking the medication that gives me jitters if I drink caffeine for the convenience of the people who get my coffee!

    I understand getting annoyed at the “half-caf, soy milk, no foam” crowd, but really? Saying “decaf” and “nonfat” is so annoying to the barista that I should just shut up and not drink coffee at all?

    Vanessa: Really, all of you go there? Why are you paying six dollars for what you could get at Dunkin Donuts for two? Or better yet, at a cool local coffee shop?

    We don’t have Dunkin’ Donuts in California, at least not within 50 miles of Los Angeles. Our cool local coffee shop closed down. And, as I said, I prefer Coffee Bean, but Starbucks is more ubiquitous and easier to get to after a movie.

  81. ColumbiaDuck
    January 16, 2008 at 2:38 pm

    I actually just got messed up by the “skinny” thing when I was in NYC over the weekend. I always order the same thing – non-fat grande vanilla latte. But as i was standing in line, i saw the signs that said, “now you can order a SKINNY” and I thought it just meant non-fat milk. So I ordered it, it wasn’t as good and I had to put more sugar in. The second day I went there, I just went back to my original order.

    I can completely relate to the barista who said this whole thing is confusing. (And, I’m of a medium weight and, yes, I felt stupid saying “skinny” – maybe it’s just the word, but I felt like I was drawing attention to my figure in a way that “non fat” does not).

  82. January 16, 2008 at 2:40 pm

    Our cool local coffee shop closed down.

    That sucks. Probably everyone was going to Starbucks.

  83. zuzu
    January 16, 2008 at 2:43 pm

    maybe it’s just the word, but I felt like I was drawing attention to my figure in a way that “non fat” does not)

    Maybe because “nonfat” refers clearly to the drink itself, or at least to the milk you want put in it, but “skinny” refers to how you are supposed to aspire to being by ordering the drink.

    It’s sort of the difference between ordering a “light” entree and a “diet” entree — “light” could just mean cooking method, fat content, presence of vegetables, etc., but “diet” means that you’re ordering it because you’re on a diet.

  84. January 16, 2008 at 3:42 pm

    I’ve always thought that everyone should have a year of cumpulsory retail/food service work, just to teach them not to be jerks to the people waiting on them, but I also HATE having some crap corporation try and make me regurgitate their made-up marketing words.

    Amen. As a retail drone myself, I resent the customers that walk in with the “Plantation Mentality” (ie: my job is so much more important than yours/you’re working in retail/food service, therefore you must be stupid/lazy/uneducated & deserve to be here, etc.), & I resent even more the market-research happy-talk bullshit that enforces a compulsory politeness & professionalism toward customers that are taking a huge verbal steaming dump on your head. No one’s ever spat in my face (thankyoujesus), but I can’t count the number of customers who’ve come in the store like they’re looking for a fight & dump on the employees because they’re perfectly aware that the peons have no power & are a nice safe target that can’t fight back.

    I’m with L.Beyerstein that this “Skinny Platform” bullocks is just more fuzzy-wuzzy feel-good market-research lingo put in place to distract people from the fact that what they’re buying & consuming is, bottom line, junk food.

  85. Sniper
    January 16, 2008 at 4:12 pm

    This thread has inspired me to overtip at Starbucks.

  86. January 16, 2008 at 4:17 pm

    This thread has inspired me to overtip at Starbucks.

    It should probably inspire you to not go there.

  87. Cap'n Colleen
    January 16, 2008 at 4:33 pm

    Mnemosyne,

    What I meant by the comment was not that no one should order a triple half-caf, non-fat, sugar-free vanilla, extra hot, no foam latte with cinnamon and nutmeg sprinkles. That’s fine. It really doesn’t make things complicated for the barista (assuming, of course, that the barista is competent…which is absolutely a problem with Starbucks since they’ve gone to automatic espresso bars…when you just have to push a button, people stop paying attention to the details) But using a word like “skinny” that means non-fat milk everywhere but starbucks where it means “non-fat, no whipped cream, sugar-free syrup” over-complicates things for everyone who ever goes anywhere but Starbucks. As I said before, just like they changed the meaning of the word “macchiato” they want to change this word too.

    The comment was directed at customers who would prefer to say “skinny” instead of using 3 or 4 modifiers to say what they want. I have no issue with making someone a drink that takes 5 minutes to order. I do have an issue with Starbucks making life hellish for all non-Starbucks coffee shops (and any customers who would dare to go someplace other than Starbucks) by changing the meaning of a word that was established long ago in coffee-speak.

    They do this for the same reason the baristas are told to correct the customer if they say “medium” instead of “grande”. They want everyone to use Starbucks talk all the time.

    And yes, I’m a big coffee dork. So I get a little oversensitive about this stuff.

  88. Rose
    January 16, 2008 at 5:58 pm

    Cap’n Colleen, I spent a good six months insisting on ordering a LARGE coffee. Finally, I could no longer stand the look of pain and confusion on the server’s face and finally gave into ordering Ventis. I tried to defy Starbucks Conformity, but they wore me down!

  89. Mnemosyne
    January 16, 2008 at 6:09 pm

    The comment was directed at customers who would prefer to say “skinny” instead of using 3 or 4 modifiers to say what they want.

    But that’s who I am. If it’s a drink that your customers are ordering all the time, why not have a single name for it? It’s like ordering “fresco style” at Taco Bell — you can say that instead of, “I want a chicken soft taco with no cheese, no sour cream, and salsa.” As I said, using “skinny” is not the best idea, but having a single word is not inherently a bad idea when you’re running a fast-food outlet.

    Yes, Starbucks is fast food. We all know it. Very few people who go there are under the illusion that it’s a fine dining experience — it’s McDonald’s with caffeine.

    They do this for the same reason the baristas are told to correct the customer if they say “medium” instead of “grande”. They want everyone to use Starbucks talk all the time.

    I admit, I’m not always paying attention, but I don’t think I’ve ever had a Starbucks barista correct me when I said “small” instead of whatever it is I’m supposed to say. Do the greenshirts not make it down to Southern California to enforce that?

  90. flippantangel
    January 16, 2008 at 6:43 pm

    It’s so wierd that our body culture has gotten to the point that “skinny,” which used to be a very negative adjective,* is now being used as a positive marketing term.

    *No, I’m not saying we should go back to making skinny people feel bad about their bodies’ either. But, really, listen to the word. It’s a mean one, just like “fatty” is today.

  91. zuzu
    January 16, 2008 at 7:19 pm

    If it’s a drink that your customers are ordering all the time, why not have a single name for it?

    In this case, though, they’re not using the word in the same way that customers have been using it.

  92. Mnemosyne
    January 16, 2008 at 7:45 pm

    In this case, though, they’re not using the word in the same way that customers have been using it.

    Is it not the way that their customers have been using it? Are regular Starbucks customers going to come in and ask for a “skinny latte” and get something they didn’t expect? That’s where I’m getting confused.

    But, as I’ve said all through the thread, “skinny” was a stupid word to choose, and doubly stupid if it already has an established meaning. “Sugar free” works fine at Coffee Bean (if you’re so inclined, which I am not).

  93. zuzu
    January 16, 2008 at 9:40 pm

    Yes. “Skinny” has been used up until now to mean nonfat milk, period. So a “skinny mocha” is just a mocha with nonfat milk, no more, no less.

    Under the new platform, “skinny” means not just nonfat milk, but also sugar-free syrup and no whip. So a “skinny mocha” under the new platform is nonfat milk, with sugar-free chocolate syrup (or mocha syrup), and no whip. So someone might order a skinny mocha, expecting regular chocolate syrup and maybe whip, and get a surprise. Which might be a problem because apparently there are allergy issues with the sweetener in the sugar-free syrups.

    IOW, there’s nothing wrong with introducing a one-word description to streamline ordering. The problem here is that the word they want to use already has an established, and different, meaning.

  94. Mnemosyne
    January 16, 2008 at 10:03 pm

    Yes. “Skinny” has been used up until now to mean nonfat milk, period. So a “skinny mocha” is just a mocha with nonfat milk, no more, no less.

    See, I have never heard the word applied to coffee until someone pointed out the new menu to me. If it is a word that Starbucks was using in one way, and they’re now changing the meaning, then, yeah, that’s going to cause customer confusion.

    I’ve never even heard someone order a “skinny” mocha or latte. Everyone in LA seems to say “nonfat” if they want skim milk. This couldn’t be an East Coast thing, could it?

  95. zuzu
    January 16, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    I’ve never heard it here, but apparently, it’s in widespread enough use that the barista who wrote the letter, and a number on the forum, thought it would cause confusion.

  96. January 16, 2008 at 11:16 pm

    I’ve never even heard someone order a “skinny” mocha or latte. Everyone in LA seems to say “nonfat” if they want skim milk. This couldn’t be an East Coast thing, could it?

    Mostly, but not completely. I live out in the IE, and I have heard people use “skinny” to mean non-fat milk, although it’s not done not very often. And we were trained in what the term mean even at the B&N/Starbucks cafe.

    Short is now the kid’s size, Mickle. You can still order any hot drink as a short.

    Yes and no, as I already said. It’s not listed (unless I’m blind, which is possible) and we weren’t trained in what size cup to use for “short” – or what percentages of stuff to use. Sure, you can technically order a short hot chocolate by asking for a kid’s hot chocolate, but I know that if you walked into the B&N/Starbucks cafe I used to work at, they’d have no idea how to make a short frap. They would, however, (until this mess) know how to make a skinny latte.

  97. January 17, 2008 at 4:44 am

    Reading all the comments first, it’s hard to figure out what this post is about! Commenters on a Starbucks blog. Enough said.

    This Christmas I learned Starbucks is not coffee. Organic, shade grown, made yourself is better.

  98. wriggles
    January 17, 2008 at 8:35 am

    Yes, the naturally thin have problems and atr sometimes unfairly slammed (and often unfairly praised), but they don’t attract anything like the sheer vitriol that fat people deal with all the fucking time.

    Calm down Sniper, I’m aware of the above, if you believe in calories=equals weight, it works both ways if you fervently believe that fat people eat themselves fat then you believe that slender people eat themselves skinny and you tend to start acting out, even I have noticed that people seem more resentful towards thinnies s/t dressed up as false concern, fat hatred does affect everyone to some degree and people need to learn to perceive it.

  99. Kat
    January 17, 2008 at 3:05 pm

    I did a short stint as a barista, and “skinny” was the term we used amongst ourselves to refer to a non-fat drink. I didn’t work for a chain, my shop was a little neighborhood coffee house, so not sure if this is industry-standard.

    In our case, if a customer ordered a “non-fat mocha”, it came made with nonfat milk and without whipped cream (because although mocha by default had whipped cream, adding whipped cream negated the non-fatness of it). This was referred to as a “skinny mocha”. Like Zuzu said above, the sugar-free syrup wasn’t an issue, because regular chocolate syrup has no fat… and in any case our shop carried some sugar-free syrups but not sugar-free chocolate.

    If a customer ordered “mocha with non-fat milk”, they got whipped cream unless they specified otherwise.

  100. Cap'n Colleen
    January 17, 2008 at 4:28 pm

    The word “skinny” could be a regional thing. I’m not really sure. I worked for a Starbucks in Denver and about a third to a half of our customers said “skinny” rather than non-fat. I was told when I got hired that some people say it and that’s what it means, so it wasn’t a surprise at all when customers used it. At coffee shops I worked at after the ‘bucks, I still had about half of the customers use the word skinny to mean non-fat milk. So in my experience, it’s pretty common.

    Mnemosyne,
    It’s possible that no one has corrected your drink orders because the people who run those stores aren’t facists about it. It’s usually done with some subtlety. It’s not like they yell or anything, but when they repeat your order back, they’re supposed to do it in Starbucks speak, which also includes putting the modifiers in the right order. So if you order a medium non-fat iced mocha, they should repeat it back to you as iced grande non-fat mocha.

    When I got hired there, I was told that I was supposed to always repeat the order back in Starbucks speak if the customer didn’t order it “correctly”, so that they could learn the way Starbucks wants people to order beverages. Apparently, it’s not enough to turn their employees into drones, they want it to extend to the general public.

  101. louise
    January 21, 2008 at 8:22 am

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22718279/

    And now another reason not to drink Starbucks…

  102. January 21, 2008 at 1:50 pm

    You minimum wage drones are hilarious. All you do is pour coffee on a cup. Get over yourselves and instead of worrying about stupid words worry about making your drink somewhat consistent. Better yet, worry about getting an education so you can have a real job. Unless of course, you just love to be called a Barista.

    It’s people like this that confirm my opinion that everyone should work in food and retail for just a few months in their lives to get a little perspective on the world. Honestly, most of the people working at Starbuck’s are college students working there to help pay their tuition so they can get a better job.
    People like this make me sick. Just because they are making your coffee doesn’t mean that you have to be an asshole to them.

  103. January 21, 2008 at 3:30 pm

    Wow… who would have thought that a chain coffee shop like Starbucks could get this much attention from people. Good or bad press is still exposure. :)

    Now I’m going to go hunt down my grande non-fat tazo chai thankyouverymuch. :D

  104. January 21, 2008 at 10:39 pm

    My *cough* favorite comment:

    “To all the sensitive Fatties out there, all you gotta do is eat less (eliminate the obvious fatty food) and exercise more. Some overweight is excused for those who just happen to be thick, but those who are obese, you guys have no excuse, and Skinny is not the only synonym out there for thin.”

    Not true, you fucking sizeist fatphobic bigot. Anyone who’s ever had weight issues can tell you it’s just not that fucking simple.

    I seriously wish I had a torch and pitchfork so I could go agrarian revolt on people when they act like douches. I say if your logic can resemble the Dark Ages, so can my method of rioting at your douchebaggery.

    That being said, I have always ordered a “skim latte” or a “latte with skim milk” because I like to cut down on the opportunity for error.

    Why do people think they can be asses to those in service jobs? It’s the same as retail. Just because the job market sucks and someone has this instead of a “real” job does not make them stupid.

  105. Monica
    January 22, 2008 at 1:58 am

    “When I used to work at Seattle’s Best (before it got bought out by Starbucks, le sigh), a non-fat decaf no-whip drink was called a “why-bother.” As in, the customer would order a tall non-fat decaf mocha, no whip, and the cashier would say to whoever was on bar, “tall why bother mocha.”

    Might have been a location thing, but the customers seemed to get a kick out of it.”

    Having been a Barista, this put a HUGE smile on my face when I read it. Haha.

    You should add single to the list though. So, a “single nonfat decaf mocha no whip”.

    This is going to sound anal but when people would order single decaf espresso drinks (or even worse, single shots pulled into double cups) it would drive me NUTS because I’d have to waste so many shots daily for their stupid coffee drinks that are hardly coffee drinks anyway.

  106. Sasha0189
    January 22, 2008 at 3:13 am

    I, too, ALWAYS say “with skim” when I order drinks at coffee shops. This is mostly because I thought it was ridiculous when I worked as a barista and people would say things like “non-fat caramel latte”- not because it wasn’t nonfat, but because it always seemed like they were trying to convince themselves that it was somehow healthier than the same drink with 2%. I personally order drinks with skim because I feel that the creamier milk makes the drink too heavy, not because I think it is part of a healthy lifestyle.

    In regards to the people discussing how low-skilled the job itself is- even on a superautomatic espresso machine where you need to press a total of two buttons to pull your shots and steam the milk, you do still need to know what you are doing to make it taste good. For example, the shots need to be timed on a pretty regular basis to make sure that the machine is grinding the beans correctly. If the shots are too fast, the grind is too coarse and the espresso is kind of weak and has no froth of its own. If the grind is too fine, the shots take forever and are really bitter and not sweet like espresso is supposed to be. (Thats what causes your sour/bitter latte, by the way. Next time you are in a coffee shop and get one of those, you can impress your friends by asking the barista if the shots are properly timed.) So you do need to have at least one person on the floor who has some knowledge of how the equipment works (i.e. not your average unskilled monkey) to even keep the drinks tasting like they are supposed to.

    I would also like to add that the Starbucks-lingo has gone beyond the coffee shop venue. I currently work as a server in a bar/restaurant, and I have had people get surprised when the tall beer is the biggest one. I’m not kidding.

    And I concur that people should have to spend some time in the service industry at some point in their lives, just for the empathy. You can always tell the people who never had that kind of job, they are high-maintenance, and they tip like shit.

  107. amanda
    January 22, 2008 at 3:30 am

    I just found this story – but last week I overheard the staff at my university Starbucks discussing the reform. One staffer was confused. Another, however, sighed with relief, and said something along the lines of, This is a good idea. A company making a change that it thinks will help its employees – fine. Attaching – erroneously – the concept of skinny to a drink that bears no ultimate relationship to skinny – not fine.

    I’m less concerned about the plus-size Starbucks employee’s self-esteem taking a dive – she’s more likely to be hurt by the spitter – and more concerned about the idea that having a cocktail of artificial sweetener and caffeine for breakfast is a good way to stay railthin.

    I want to know more about where the vitriol at people in the service industry comes from. I was a non-Bucks barista for a while, and I’ll be damned if I don’t put money in the tip jar when I buy anything, anywhere, every. single. time. That job was pure exhaustion, and while my regulars were usually kind and friendly people, the bitch who craned her neck over the counter to monitor whether or not I was dispensing her double-hazelnut, double-vanilla shots with precision and remind me, yet again, that it was skim with NO foam, NO foam, made me seriously consider why people in retail positions, today, in America, take the hit from each and every personality disorder.

  108. louise
    January 22, 2008 at 7:53 am

    Agreed, Jami; what I came away with is that folks are far too quick to be rude to complete strangers. I find that unacceptable; while I was exasperated with the lady at Starbucks in my antecdote, I was not and will not be rude.

    Service/retail folks should always be treated with a smile by the customer; how hard is it to give one?

  109. Sarah
    January 22, 2008 at 9:16 pm

    You minimum wage drones are hilarious. All you do is pour coffee on a cup. Get over yourselves and instead of worrying about stupid words worry about making your drink somewhat consistent. Better yet, worry about getting an education so you can have a real job. Unless of course, you just love to be called a Barista.

    And those “minimum wage drones” pour the coffee in the cup that gets those suits through their day. I agree, be nice to retail or service industry workers. I worked retail twice, Sears and Fashion Bug, and I liked The Bug much better than Sears, because the customers were regulars, they recognized me, I recognized them, and we established a friendly relationship where they respected my opinions and efforts and I assisted them with a friendly demeanor and went out of the way to make their experiences better. I’ve also worked minimum wage as a mentor in a poor elementary school, and let me tell you, I’ve had more fun at my minimum wage jobs that allow me to express myself than sitting at a desk all day creating profit reports for a company who doesn’t even know my name, just what department I’m in.

    Maybe all these people with their knickers in knots about Starbucks baristas not wanting to offend customers who may not like the designation of their drink to be skinny or not, who care that the customers get their drinks the way they want them and without having to wait forever because of the new designation being different than what the customer thinks that it means, who want to perform their job to the best of their ability should stop going to Starbucks if they don’t want to deal with it. If they want their coffee made their way, fast, and by uncaring people with a grimace on their face, they can make it themselves!

  110. kublakhan
    January 23, 2008 at 1:28 am

    I’m a Starbucks barista. I just wanted to clear up a thing or two:
    Starbucks is kind of lame for hijacking the term macchiato for their Caramel Macchiato. BUT! You should be able to order and receive a decent macchiato at any Sbux. You can also order plain shots of espresso, or a plain old small coffee.

    In regards to the “tall is small wtf!” thing: Back in the day, the only sizes were short and tall. Short is 8 oz, and tall is 12. Then, grande and venti came along, and now it seems all stupid and wonky. But it made sense once!

    Finally, I’d just like to put this out there, to defend some really great people I work with: Starbucks does use automatic espresso machines, but most stores are so high-volume that it would be impossible to get your latte or macchiato in a timely fashion during morning rushes. So we pull automatic shots. It doesn’t mean that everyone working at Starbucks is ignorant about coffee, or a perfectly timed shot, or how to steam great milk. Besides all that, we’re supposed to be providing “legendary” customer service all the damn time. Part of that includes getting your drink to you in three minutes or less. This would probably be impossible if it were busy and we had manual machines.

    So while it’s not the most complicated job on earth, and while the average Starbucks employee isn’t some coffee aficionado, it does take some skill to do it all at once: making a jillion drinks for a jillion cranky/entitled customers, in a timely fashion, up to weight/temperature standards/with beautiful delicious foam, WHILE chatting and smiling and being “legendary”…

    I can’t stand the comments on the Starbucksgossip blog. What a bunch of entitled jerks!

  111. Sarah
    January 23, 2008 at 4:38 pm

    I work in a drive-through (I know, I work at a starbucks drive-through and I love my job. everyone in these comments hates me by now.) and it’s incredibly hard to get people to consider the employees as human beings, let alone get them to communicate effectively about their drink orders

    I personally love the folks that work in the drive-through at the Starbucks back home. They’re always so darn friendly, it’s hard to have a horrible experience when you’re being served by someone cheerful AND you’re getting a delicious drink out of the deal (despite my usual triple-venti caramel macchiato costing two arms, a leg, and my first-born).

    And yes, I get the regular kind. All the fat and calories and everything else. My skinny coffee-addict cousin looked at me in disbelief when I told her that was my favorite, and she gasped nearly hard enough that her size 2 jeans had to stretch a bit and said “Do you know how much calories and fat are in there?” (and yes those were her exact, grammatically awkward words). And yeah, okay, so I’m overweight, dare I even say I’m fat. But – here’s the kicker – My heart is in good condition, I’m capable of physical activity, including but not limited to jogging, playing ultimate frisbee, being a pretty kickbutt volleyball player, and I’m able to climb the hill from the Starbucks on the university hill in Syracuse back up to my apartment. I also do not suffer from diabetes, etc. etc., nor do I have weight-related injuries. I have two slipped discs in my back from playing bass drum in the marching band for two years, and I sprained/damaged my knees playing football when I slammed my kneecaps into the legs of the girl on the opposing line during a scrimmage.

    I don’t care if people think I’m fat and judge me for ordering a full-fat, calorie laden drink. I still walk to class faster than the size 0 sorority princesses with their skinny latte or whatever in one hand, carrying a Vera Bradley bag twice their size and wearing sunglasses large enough to block all the UV coming in through the hole in the ozone layer.

  112. littlem
    March 7, 2008 at 4:13 am

    I say if your logic can resemble the Dark Ages, so can my method of rioting at your douchebaggery.

    Love.

    Best thing here, and encompasses many situations.

    Will use in the future with your permission.

  113. Jackie
    March 12, 2008 at 9:33 pm

    “It’s going to hurt the feelings of fat customers if they hear “skinny” over and over”

    It’s not going to hurt their feelings, because they won’t be visiting Starbucks anymore. That’s right, see how hot they feel when they’re making no money, cause fat people would rather go somewhere they don’t have to hear skinny over and over, like a cheerleader who keeps saying “like”.

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