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	<title>Comments on: Time for another poorly-thought-out pregnancy-scare health article!</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:11:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Erica</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-161416</link>
		<dc:creator>Erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Apr 2008 06:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I live in Canada, a woman ate some cheese at a nice bed and breakfast that her and her husband were staying at to celebrate her pregnancy of their first child. There was a problem with the cheese, not pasturised right, or wrong bacteria. He got sick... she lost their child.

Um ya... cheese is an urban myth.

Now, it isn&#039;t all cheese, i&#039;m sure cheddar and mozza is fine, as well as cheese slices. But all the other gourmet ones, you better think twice. Is it truly worth the risk to your child to be the one to figure out that yes, it CAN cause miscarriage. 

As for raw fish, the problem isn&#039;t that its raw but the fish could have bacteria in it as well that cooking would normally kill. It&#039;s a risk factor.

Stop being a whiner.

It was worth 18 months of giving up certain cheese, and sushi to have 2 living babies - no miscarriages.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I live in Canada, a woman ate some cheese at a nice bed and breakfast that her and her husband were staying at to celebrate her pregnancy of their first child. There was a problem with the cheese, not pasturised right, or wrong bacteria. He got sick&#8230; she lost their child.</p>
<p>Um ya&#8230; cheese is an urban myth.</p>
<p>Now, it isn&#8217;t all cheese, i&#8217;m sure cheddar and mozza is fine, as well as cheese slices. But all the other gourmet ones, you better think twice. Is it truly worth the risk to your child to be the one to figure out that yes, it CAN cause miscarriage. </p>
<p>As for raw fish, the problem isn&#8217;t that its raw but the fish could have bacteria in it as well that cooking would normally kill. It&#8217;s a risk factor.</p>
<p>Stop being a whiner.</p>
<p>It was worth 18 months of giving up certain cheese, and sushi to have 2 living babies &#8211; no miscarriages.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauredhel</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-147488</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauredhel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jan 2008 02:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wisborg&#039;s study &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7386/420&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;&quot;Maternal consumption of coffee during pregnancy and stillbirth and infant death in first year of life: prospective study&quot;&lt;/a&gt; also demonstrated the toxic media spin around drugs in pregnancy. This was widely reported in the media as &quot;COFFEE CAUSES STILLBIRTH!!1!&quot;

If you look at the actual results, what it shows it that intake of more than EIGHT cups of coffee a day at 16 weeks of pregnancy may be correlated with stillbirth (about triple the risk). Table 2 is the relevant table in the paper. 

However, the confidence interval included 1.0, meaning that the result was only of bare and borderline statistical signifiance.  Smoking, alcohol, and some demographic characteristics were controlled for, but there are some very notable omissions: drug intake and nutrition, including eating disorders and intake of Listeria-risk foods. It is entirely reasonable to postulate that there may be an association between drinking more than eight cups of coffee a day in early pregnancy (seriously, eight cups?!), and disordered eating, intake of amphetamines/cocaine, and possible various other factors that are associated with poorer pregnancy outcomes - but they didn&#039;t even ask. The authors later replied saying that they didn&#039;t consider drug abuse an issue because the incidence of drug abuse is a &quot;minor problem&quot; in Denmark.

That is without including consideration of the possibility that women with non-viable pregnancies don&#039;t get as nauseous and lose their taste for coffee compared to 

But most importantly: if you drill down to the actual data instead of just the abstract - something the MSM never bother with - drinking no cups of coffee a day was also associated with a trend to increased risk of stillbirth compared to drinking 1-3 cups a day, and the increase was around 67% (though barely outside the range of statistical significance). Between 4 and 7 cups a day there was a trend to increased risk (again, not statistically significant wth the tests they used). So from this study, it would seem, if you were the gullible type, that the optimal intake is 1-3 cups a day, and that caffeine abstinence is contraindicated.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wisborg&#8217;s study <a href="http://www.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/326/7386/420" rel="nofollow">&#8220;Maternal consumption of coffee during pregnancy and stillbirth and infant death in first year of life: prospective study&#8221;</a> also demonstrated the toxic media spin around drugs in pregnancy. This was widely reported in the media as &#8220;COFFEE CAUSES STILLBIRTH!!1!&#8221;</p>
<p>If you look at the actual results, what it shows it that intake of more than EIGHT cups of coffee a day at 16 weeks of pregnancy may be correlated with stillbirth (about triple the risk). Table 2 is the relevant table in the paper. </p>
<p>However, the confidence interval included 1.0, meaning that the result was only of bare and borderline statistical signifiance.  Smoking, alcohol, and some demographic characteristics were controlled for, but there are some very notable omissions: drug intake and nutrition, including eating disorders and intake of Listeria-risk foods. It is entirely reasonable to postulate that there may be an association between drinking more than eight cups of coffee a day in early pregnancy (seriously, eight cups?!), and disordered eating, intake of amphetamines/cocaine, and possible various other factors that are associated with poorer pregnancy outcomes &#8211; but they didn&#8217;t even ask. The authors later replied saying that they didn&#8217;t consider drug abuse an issue because the incidence of drug abuse is a &#8220;minor problem&#8221; in Denmark.</p>
<p>That is without including consideration of the possibility that women with non-viable pregnancies don&#8217;t get as nauseous and lose their taste for coffee compared to </p>
<p>But most importantly: if you drill down to the actual data instead of just the abstract &#8211; something the MSM never bother with &#8211; drinking no cups of coffee a day was also associated with a trend to increased risk of stillbirth compared to drinking 1-3 cups a day, and the increase was around 67% (though barely outside the range of statistical significance). Between 4 and 7 cups a day there was a trend to increased risk (again, not statistically significant wth the tests they used). So from this study, it would seem, if you were the gullible type, that the optimal intake is 1-3 cups a day, and that caffeine abstinence is contraindicated.</p>
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		<title>By: Bitter Scribe</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-147465</link>
		<dc:creator>Bitter Scribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 21:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-147465</guid>
		<description>Another study says coffee may help &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=82691-caffeine-coffee-ovarian-cancer&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;avoid ovarian cancer. &lt;/a&gt;Sheesh. Damned if you do...

I think a lot of these health studies can be safely ignored because they&#039;re done on an observational basis. They have to be, because you can&#039;t cage people and forcibly give them a diet that might induce cancer. But observational studies are notoriously unreliable.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Another study says coffee may help <a href="http://www.nutraingredients.com/news/ng.asp?n=82691-caffeine-coffee-ovarian-cancer" rel="nofollow">avoid ovarian cancer. </a>Sheesh. Damned if you do&#8230;</p>
<p>I think a lot of these health studies can be safely ignored because they&#8217;re done on an observational basis. They have to be, because you can&#8217;t cage people and forcibly give them a diet that might induce cancer. But observational studies are notoriously unreliable.</p>
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		<title>By: Leah</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-147462</link>
		<dc:creator>Leah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:46:29 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I am 5 1/2 months with my 4th child. My Doctors have actually told me to drink caffeinated drinks to help with headaches.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am 5 1/2 months with my 4th child. My Doctors have actually told me to drink caffeinated drinks to help with headaches.</p>
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		<title>By: Ledasmom</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-147437</link>
		<dc:creator>Ledasmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:57:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Apple cider can contain considerably more alcohol than that if you buy it at the orchard we buy it at and let it sit around for a couple days.  Mmm, unpasteurized cider (which, to aim vaguely in the direction of the topic, undoubtedly has many things in it that pregnant women are told to avoid.  Is there a safe level of codling moth larva during pregnancy?).
I remember taking a glass of wine rather than painkillers for the afterpangs with my second child, as what I needed was not so much relief of pain but relief of anxiety.  I recall being offered narcotic painkillers for such afterpangs in the hospital with the first child.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apple cider can contain considerably more alcohol than that if you buy it at the orchard we buy it at and let it sit around for a couple days.  Mmm, unpasteurized cider (which, to aim vaguely in the direction of the topic, undoubtedly has many things in it that pregnant women are told to avoid.  Is there a safe level of codling moth larva during pregnancy?).<br />
I remember taking a glass of wine rather than painkillers for the afterpangs with my second child, as what I needed was not so much relief of pain but relief of anxiety.  I recall being offered narcotic painkillers for such afterpangs in the hospital with the first child.</p>
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		<title>By: gabrielle</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-147431</link>
		<dc:creator>gabrielle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 17:31:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I’m still waiting, though not holding my breath, for a pro-life group to genuinely be about helping the babies - by working to clean up the environment, improving working/living conditions for mothers, improving education, and doing real studies about what might harm the fetus.  Meh.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

XtinaS, I think you are my new best friend.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I’m still waiting, though not holding my breath, for a pro-life group to genuinely be about helping the babies &#8211; by working to clean up the environment, improving working/living conditions for mothers, improving education, and doing real studies about what might harm the fetus.  Meh.</p></blockquote>
<p>XtinaS, I think you are my new best friend.</p>
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		<title>By: AnneThropologist</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-147404</link>
		<dc:creator>AnneThropologist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:18:21 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Gaia, you are correct.

The American Academy of Pediatrics classifies alcohol as &quot;a drug generally compatible with breastfeeding.&quot;  My pediatrician&#039;s advice?  A glass or two is fine ... if you feel like you&#039;re too tipsy to hold your infant safely, then you&#039;re probably too tipsy to breastfeed.

European countries (and American non-traditional doctors) have recommended dark beer to increase lactation for CENTURIES.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gaia, you are correct.</p>
<p>The American Academy of Pediatrics classifies alcohol as &#8220;a drug generally compatible with breastfeeding.&#8221;  My pediatrician&#8217;s advice?  A glass or two is fine &#8230; if you feel like you&#8217;re too tipsy to hold your infant safely, then you&#8217;re probably too tipsy to breastfeed.</p>
<p>European countries (and American non-traditional doctors) have recommended dark beer to increase lactation for CENTURIES.</p>
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		<title>By: SoE</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-147401</link>
		<dc:creator>SoE</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 14:05:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Actually, juice can contain up to 0.8% alcohol. And white bread, stuff with yeast… can all contain alcohol, too. AH, the SCARE!!!eleven!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, juice can contain up to 0.8% alcohol. And white bread, stuff with yeast… can all contain alcohol, too. AH, the SCARE!!!eleven!!</p>
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		<title>By: Gaia</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-147394</link>
		<dc:creator>Gaia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 07:12:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Okay.

Alcohol is present in breastmilk at the same concentrations as in blood.  http://www.kellymom.com/health/lifestyle/alcohol.html &amp; http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-3/230-234.htm (&quot;In general, less than 2 percent of the alcohol dose consumed by the mother reaches her milk and blood. Alcohol is not stored in breast milk, however, but its level parallels that found in the maternal blood.&quot;)

So, if your BAC is .08 that means your breastmilk is 0.08% alcohol.  If your BAC is 0.40 (which is the generally recognized threshhold for stupor and death) your breastmilk is 0.40% alcohol.  If your BAC is 0.20% (generally recognized as &quot;falling down drunk&quot;) your breastmilk is 0.20% alcohol.

I can&#039;t find the link about the alcohol content of non-alcoholic cider, but I did find it for O&#039;Douls non-alcoholic beer - 0.50%.  My memory (which admittedly is faulty) is that apple cider (sold in the US as nonalcoholic) could be up to 0.30% alcohol.  I did find that in the UK any drink that is 0.50% alcohol or less is considered &quot;non alcoholic&quot;.  It could be that the calculations were done in the UK.

Drinking could be contraindicated for holding an infant, but it&#039;s not contraindicated for breastfeeding unless you are some superhuman who can function at extremely high BAC levels.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Okay.</p>
<p>Alcohol is present in breastmilk at the same concentrations as in blood.  <a href="http://www.kellymom.com/health/lifestyle/alcohol.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.kellymom.com/health/lifestyle/alcohol.html</a> &amp; <a href="http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-3/230-234.htm" rel="nofollow">http://pubs.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/arh25-3/230-234.htm</a> (&#8220;In general, less than 2 percent of the alcohol dose consumed by the mother reaches her milk and blood. Alcohol is not stored in breast milk, however, but its level parallels that found in the maternal blood.&#8221;)</p>
<p>So, if your BAC is .08 that means your breastmilk is 0.08% alcohol.  If your BAC is 0.40 (which is the generally recognized threshhold for stupor and death) your breastmilk is 0.40% alcohol.  If your BAC is 0.20% (generally recognized as &#8220;falling down drunk&#8221;) your breastmilk is 0.20% alcohol.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t find the link about the alcohol content of non-alcoholic cider, but I did find it for O&#8217;Douls non-alcoholic beer &#8211; 0.50%.  My memory (which admittedly is faulty) is that apple cider (sold in the US as nonalcoholic) could be up to 0.30% alcohol.  I did find that in the UK any drink that is 0.50% alcohol or less is considered &#8220;non alcoholic&#8221;.  It could be that the calculations were done in the UK.</p>
<p>Drinking could be contraindicated for holding an infant, but it&#8217;s not contraindicated for breastfeeding unless you are some superhuman who can function at extremely high BAC levels.</p>
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		<title>By: mythago</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/01/21/time-for-another-poorly-thought-out-pregnancy-scare-health-article/#comment-147383</link>
		<dc:creator>mythago</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 04:37:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I would really love to see those calculations. Again, the response to overblown paranoia is not &quot;silly doctors, this is all harmless&quot;. 

&lt;i&gt;Remember all those studies that came out a few years ago that swore up and down that peanut butter was the worst thing you could feed a child under two?&lt;/i&gt;

No, I honestly don&#039;t remember those studies. I do remember a lot of hyped-up media articles that, as usual, didn&#039;t bother to do much other than extract a couple of conclusions from the studies and turn them into scare quotes, and people not bothering to read past the headlines.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would really love to see those calculations. Again, the response to overblown paranoia is not &#8220;silly doctors, this is all harmless&#8221;. </p>
<p><i>Remember all those studies that came out a few years ago that swore up and down that peanut butter was the worst thing you could feed a child under two?</i></p>
<p>No, I honestly don&#8217;t remember those studies. I do remember a lot of hyped-up media articles that, as usual, didn&#8217;t bother to do much other than extract a couple of conclusions from the studies and turn them into scare quotes, and people not bothering to read past the headlines.</p>
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