Author: zuzu has written 1119 posts for this blog.

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  1. 1
    The Raving Atheist 1.28.2008 at 10:49 am |

    We’ll know we’re getting close when the conventional wisdom accepts that “anti-abortionists” are out to do to our families what they did to Terry Schiavo’s

    Characteristic of the writer’s tenuous grasp of reality. The Schiavo case involved a dispute between the Terry’s parents and her husband. So the state didn’t “snoop” into a private family matter . . . it was forced to arbitrate because there were factual questions regarding Terry’s wishes that she was not in a position to answer. What was the state supposed to do — sit back and let the family wrestle over the plug?

  2. 2
    sotonohito 1.28.2008 at 1:54 pm |

    I think Ms. Robinson is overestimating the creativity and intelligence of the true hard core of the anti-choice movement. I doubt that many women obtaining medical abortions will have their homes picketed.

    I do think that Robinson’s prognosis is correct in general, however. But the increasing use of terrorist tactics will, I suspect, not shift its focus. Rather, the hard core will simply ratchett up their attacks on their traditional targets, and focus on the later term abortions that can’t be handled medically. I suspect we will not see widespread picketing of women suspected of taking RU-486, but rather increased employment of arson, explosives, and other overt violence against Planned Parenthood and other providers of surgical abortion.

    Not, of course, that the fanatics won’t picket, or murder, women they suspect of using RU-486, but I think they won’t be able to identify many such women and will therefore have difficulty finding targets beyond their traditional ones.

  3. 3
    Betty Boondoggle 1.28.2008 at 3:14 pm |

    I doubt that many women obtaining medical abortions will have their homes picketed.

    This probably stems from the stories of the anti-choicer bigots stalking clinic workers – like secretaries – and even people indirectly involved with a clinic – like the friggin contractor who built it. In addition to “ratting” them out to neighbors, employers, etc. Parking in front of their homes in vehicles with those infamous pictures on the sides.

    It’s not so out of joint to think they would go as far as to picket invidiual homes- they already do.

  4. 4
    odanu 1.28.2008 at 3:26 pm |

    It’s not only reasonable that the hard core of the anti-choice crowd would picket homes, but that they would bomb them or burn them as well. With the clearness of the choice shifting from the doctor to the patient, it’s easy to see that the fanatical edge would see it as their duty to “set examples” of some of the women who use medical abortions.

  5. 6
    Kristen from MA 1.28.2008 at 4:09 pm |

    But instead, Jeb Bush and the US Congress decided to get involved to overturn the decisions of the courts. Don’t you remember Bill Frist diagnosing Terri’s condition via videotape on the floor of the Senate?

    Not to mention Dumbya returning flying back to DC from his ‘ranch’ to sign special legislation? Something he didn’t bother to do after receipt of the pre-9/11 intel memo, or during Katrina.

    Priorities, dontcha know. /snark

  6. 7
    ElleBeMe 1.28.2008 at 4:24 pm |

    It’s not only reasonable that the hard core of the anti-choice crowd would picket homes, but that they would bomb them or burn them as well. With the clearness of the choice shifting from the doctor to the patient, it’s easy to see that the fanatical edge would see it as their duty to “set examples” of some of the women who use medical abortions.

    See, I don’t see them picketing individual homes of women who may have taken RU-486.

    Rather I see it as a platform for them to harass OB/GYNs at large. All they need is one staff member of a doctor to have opposing views to reproductive choice/privacy and the harassment ensues. Dr. X carries RU-486 in his/her office and dispenses it at will to those who ask for it. Nurse Ratchett informs her local pro-force compadres and voila – harassment, intimidation and picketing of said MD and his patients outside of the office.

    ~or~

    As what many anti-choice thugs do (as in making fake appointments at clinics to block time out from women who really do intend to show up and have an abortion), send in a “fake” patient who asks for the drug. If she gets what she asks for – voila – harassment, intimidation and picketing of said MD and his patients outside of his office.

    Plenty of ways to detect these doctors and start protesting outside of their offices before any individual patient’s home be beseiged with pro-force terrorists.

    I remeber back in the 1980′s when doctors performed abortions at their offices. I remember them for the protests that happened outside. Nowadays the physician’s office is deemed off-limits because abortions aren’t performed there. But once the AC thugs catch wind of the doctors who will/do dispense this drug bet the farm that not only clinics will be targeted, so will individual practices.

    It will again be very difficult for a MD then to find office space for nobody wants protesters outside of their business. MD’s who dispense this drug could be marginalized just like the ones who do the surgical abortions.

  7. 8
    Marle 1.28.2008 at 4:28 pm |

    What should have been a private medical decision turned into a court fight because Terri Schiavo’s parents couldn’t accept that Michael Schiavo, and not them, was Terri’s legal guardian and had the power to make medical decisions on her behalf. And the courts ruled against them every single time the case was heard — because there are established channels for handling these matters, and there are established rules for determining who is the next of kin.

    There’s some situations, like euthanasia, where the decision should be based on more than just what the next of kin wants. And that was the situation with the Schiavo case. The courts weren’t deciding who was her next of kin, they were deciding what she most likely would have wanted to happen. Though you’re right that it should have been the end of it, and what Jeb and Congress did was crazy and embarrassing.

  8. 10
    Rxl 1.28.2008 at 5:58 pm |

    I’m sure they’ll attack the callousness of killing a baby “just by swallowing a pill”.

  9. 11
    The Raving Atheist 1.28.2008 at 6:15 pm |

    What should have been a private medical decision turned into a court fight because Terri Schiavo’s parents couldn’t accept that Michael Schiavo, and not them, was Terri’s legal guardian and had the power to make medical decisions on her behalf.

    There was a lengthy trial to determine what Terri’s wishes would have been. Because she didn’t make a living will, there was testimony from both the husband’s side and the parents’ regarding whether she would have desired to have her life prolonged. If the court had found that Terri had wished to live, it could have directed feeding to continue regardless of the husband’s guardianship. So if what you meant by “private medical decision” was a decision made by a husband regarding his wife’s life, that wasn’t the issue.

    In any event, Robinson didn’t refer to a “private medical decision.” She suggested that “anti-abortionists are out to do to our families what they did to Terry Schiavo’s.” But Terri’s parents were as much a part of Terri’s “family” as was her husband. No matter what the government did (and whether it was acting on a pro-choice or anti-choice agenda) it would have been “doing” something to a family member in any situation where the family members disagreed on what was to be done.

    If the govermental interference that Robinson was complaining about was the brief Congressional action in the last two weeks of the controversy — rather than the five years of intra-family litigation — I don’t still don’t see how it was interference in a “family” or “private” matter. Perhaps it was an improper exercise of legislative power over the judiciary, but that’s an intra-governmental dispute rather than a governmental inference with a “family” or “private” matter. But I agree that Congress’ action was hypocritical insofar it it attempted to transfer jurisdiction in a “life” matter to the federal courts, when most pro-lifers (at least recently) argue that it is something that should be left to the states.

  10. 13
    Mnemosyne 1.28.2008 at 6:41 pm |

    If the govermental interference that Robinson was complaining about was the brief Congressional action in the last two weeks of the controversy — rather than the five years of intra-family litigation — I don’t still don’t see how it was interference in a “family” or “private” matter. Perhaps it was an improper exercise of legislative power over the judiciary, but that’s an intra-governmental dispute rather than a governmental inference with a “family” or “private” matter.

    This is seriously one of the dumbest things I’ve ever read. You don’t see how getting Congress to pick sides between two groups of family members is interfering in a family matter?

  11. 14
    sotonohito 1.28.2008 at 7:27 pm |

    odanu and Betty Boondoggle I’m not saying that the fanatics won’t go after individual women. I’m saying that given the likely difficulty of finding targets of that nature I don’t think individual women will be *frequently* targeted.

    PP and the doctors providing surgical abortions (which will remain necessary even as RU-486 and other medical abortions become more common) are big, easy to find, obvious targets, and I suspect they will continue to bear the brunt of the increasing violence Ms. Robinson predicts.

    When and as the fanatics can find individual women who have used medical abortificants, I’m sure they will harrass, threaten, and attempt murder. But I don’t see that becoming their primary activity, not due to any lack of desire to attack individual women on the part of the fanatics, but simply due to the difficulty in identifying individual women.

    As I type that, I also suspect we’ll see a genuine witch hunt mentality developing, such that any woman the fanatics take umberage with will be, accurately or no, branded a “baby killer” and lynched on those grounds.

    Still, I think the sheer difficulty of finding women using medical abortificants will keep the fanatics *mostly* focused on PP and other surgical abortion clinics.

  12. 15
    Marle 1.28.2008 at 9:17 pm |

    We don’t have to fight over the Schiavo situation, both sides are right. RA is right about why it went to court, everyone else is right about how Congress and Jeb sucked. Ok?

  13. 17
    Marle 1.28.2008 at 11:32 pm |

    Actually, RA *isn’t* right about why it went to court, or about why it stayed in court so long, which is why I provided the wikipedia link.

    How is RA wrong about why it went to court? He says it went to the courts to determine what she would have wished, and I’ve read the court documents and that’s true. Your wikipedia link also says “Given the lack of a living will, a trial was held during the week of January 24, 2000, to determine what Schiavo’s wishes would have been regarding life-prolonging procedures.”

    RA is grossly understating the problems with what Congress and Jeb did, but what he’s saying about the courts is factual.

  14. 18
    I had a medical abortion 1.29.2008 at 12:39 am |

    It required just as many trips to the clinic (2) as a surgical abortion, and all the counseling and the presence of the doctor when I took the first pills. I don’t know if that was legal requirements or clinic policies.

    I don’t think fanatics will have any problem tracking people down, and I’m sure they’re not afraid of picketing, outing people, or harrassing people even when they aren’t sure what you were doing. Bombing and shooting are harder to coordinate but if they’ll track down doctors at home, they’ll track down women.

  15. 19
    Citizen Kane 1.30.2008 at 4:38 pm |

    “He says it went to the courts to determine what she would have wished, and I’ve read the court documents and that’s true.”

    I disagree. Judge Greer upheld the Browning decision in this case, of which “what she would have wished” is only one part of a three-pronged test. Have a look; pages 7 through 10 are most informative.

    http://abstractappeal.com/schiavo/trialctorder02-00.pdf

    Essentially, the judge said that in this case, the Browning decision applied, thereby permitting Mr. Schiavo to make medical decisions in his wife’s stead.

    And from the appeal itself, which affirmed the lower court’s decision:

    “Since the resolution of the malpractice lawsuit, both Michael and the Schindlers have become suspicious that the other party is assessing Theresa’s wishes based upon their own monetary self-interest. The trial court discounted this concern, and we see no evidence in this record that either Michael or the Schindlers seek monetary gain from their actions. Michael and the Schindlers simply cannot agree on what decision Theresa would make today if she were able to assess her own condition and make her own decision.”

    From my reading, the appeal court said ‘Shrug. Husband comes before parents in the Browning standard’ — which is essentially what Judge Greer said. That pretty clearly doesn’t concern itself with what Mrs. Schiavo might have expressed prior to falling ill.

  16. 20

    [...] Hat tip to Feministe. [...]

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