I’ve had enough Patriarchal bigotry to face in my life. Disguising the same transphobic Aristocracy of privilege in a dress and putting lipstick on it, calling it “womyn born womyn” and pretending it’s Feminism won’t change its essential nature.

I wouldn’t feel comfortable there, neither as a woman, nor as a human being. Most who attend are quite nice people, they have no interest in the issue. But there are enough transphobic infiltrators there, some who “pass as normal”, to make the whole atmosphere toxic and unsafe.

I am member of the least visible population in the world. I am a former trans kid. I can only speak for myself and no one else… When I was tiny, I remember hearing my father say to the family, “men are better than women.” Not only was I appalled but the statement didn’t apply to me. It was a statement about men. There’s no mystery about such children at all. I heard the message the same way any girl would. He was saying he was better than me. I don’t know how complicated this is Cicely, it’s seems straightforward. Could it be it seems complicated for you because it’s not something you would expect?

What I meant to convey, Marissa, is that I acknowledge experiences like yours. Feminists who hold anti-trans views don’t allow for it. They speak as if they believe a trans girl simply absorbs all the gendered social messages meant for a *boy*, without complication in her mind, because she has the body of a boy, and is being acted upon in the world as if she was a boy. I can see what you’re saying – that you knew – clearly – that when your father said what he said, you heard it as any girl would hear it, so that was straightforward for you.

Other trans children no doubt had the same experience you did, and then others may have struggled working out which gendered messages to do what with – as in interpret as well act on – based on all the different ways a child might be trying to understand themselves and how they were hoping or planning to be and to live, what with all the overwhelming status quo expectations. That’s what I mean by ‘not in an uncomplicated fashion’, and I borrowed that phrase from Lisa from Questioning Transphobia (and a couple of comments above). Thanks, Lisa – I should have said so earlier too. :-).

I’ve learned what I’ve learned from listening to trans women and trans men, and I’m so glad to hear your voice here as well.

I am member of the least visible population in the world. I am a former trans kid. I can only speak for myself and no one else. I am not a member of the trans community and never have been.

Cicely is remarkable in what she said about children. When I was tiny, I remember hearing my father say to the family, “men are better than women.” Not only was I appalled but the statement didn’t apply to me. It was a statement about men. There’s no mystery about such children at all. I heard the message the same way any girl would. He was saying he was better than me. I don’t know how complicated this is Cicely, it’s seems straightforward. Could it be it seems complicated for you because it’s not something you would expect?

“It’s no good if just -anyone- can have one.”

this is not democracy, this is not feminism, this is not progressive, and this is not smart. also, it sucks.

Having watched this debate rather quietly from the sidelines for many years, I have to say that the blogosphere has totally changed the debate and connected it to a whole lot more feminist thinkers than just various people who attend Michfest or the loose coalitions of trans people and allies who oppose the policy. It’s no longer possible to pretend, as you could five years ago, that everyone who disagrees with the policy are all “privileged, space-invading transgenders” and “young lesbians who are obsessed with trannyboys.”

If you’ve never been to Camp Trans before you should come this year. It is not simply a ‘loose coalition of trans people and allies’, it is a rapidly expanding community of folks who discuss/deal with much more than MWMF-related issues. I think you’ll find the community includes many other people than “privileged, space-invading transgenders and young lesbians who are obsessed with trannyboys.” So show up. We’re even really friendly. And camping with us doesn’t cost $400. In fact, it’s free.

I think this article may be symbolic of how the lesbian community as a whole is starting to approach as well as mature with regards to trans people, but especially trans women.

But in recent years there has been signs of positive change. Far to many to list here.

Yes there are essentialist attitudes that persist, but the community is evolving and these views are less common. If anything it is a testament to the internet, and blogs, which have opened up a dialog and have facilitated a healing process. I think this entry is a prime example of this.

The community is evolving though, and people within the community are evolving.

I’ve always believed that people with any privilege need to talk less and listen more. How can we theorize about what transexuality means from a point of view that doesn’t listen to or take into account the lived experience of transexuals? That goes against the very foundations of feminism.

Absolutely, Astraea. Sometimes I’ve wondered how lesbians can fail to recognise this, given how invisibilised we have always been ourselves whilst being endlessly talked ‘about’ in the wider world. You know, the old ’she must have had a bad experience with a man’ and all the rest. Then I’ve thought, well, they ‘can’ see this, but they’re set up in opposition (those who are) and still convinced that it’s they who are not being heard. I don’t think that’s too difficult to understand, but the whole picture needs to be filled out. I think the strong resistance to the term ‘cisexual’ is all about not wanting to allow that there’s any such thing as cisexual privilege because what follows is an obligation to listen to transexual women. (I’d say transexual men too but in this context there’s definitely some welcoming of trans men going on, based on the idea that trans men had girlhoods. This also denies the realities of male trans childhood though.)

I really hope that the Michigan Women’s Music Festival community can eventually work through all of this and reach a place of healing. And that includes those petitioning to be a real part of that community and those who have been illicitly part of it for years under a “don’t ask don’t tell” type of policy, Thoughtful processes like Cicely’s make me think that all of that might actually be possible one day.

Well, I do like to imagine a future from which we’re looking back at all this, and I never thought I’d live long enough to do more than imagine a lesbian centred tv show, a movie like Brokeback Mountain or even the possibility of a woman President in the US, so….

…and I do think, using myself as ‘exhibit A’, that the internet offers a great opportunity to speed up change.

It started me thinking and I glanced at my profile page over on LiveJournal. I identified myself as a pacifist, a non-believer, bisexual, a teacher, a writer and as childfree…but never mentioned ‘woman’. I thought at first it was merely the way I had phrased my profile, so I started scanning some other profiles and in the vast majority of them, people identified themselves as male or female in some way or other, either through ‘mother of ‘ or ‘proud father of ‘ or just straight out, unamibigous ‘woman’/ ‘man’.

It’s rather interesting, because I’m aware I’m a woman. I have girly bits and for the most part, despite my general build and short hair, most people can visually ID me as female, and I really don’t have issues with being perceived as a woman, but if I were to list out the ‘roles’ I play, I’m not even sure woman would be an afterthought.

Mostly, in the end, it all boils down to the fact that I don’t like being judged on my physical being. If boobs and a vagina are the be all and end all, get a blow up doll. Judge a person’s soul, not their body.