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	<title>Comments on: What she said</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:12:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Five Minutes After They Are Sworn In</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-157178</link>
		<dc:creator>Alas, a blog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Five Minutes After They Are Sworn In</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 08:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-157178</guid>
		<description>[...] CBrachyrhynchos, in the comments at Feministe, and then quoted on Faux Real: Portly Dyke’s post wasn’t so much [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] CBrachyrhynchos, in the comments at Feministe, and then quoted on Faux Real: Portly Dyke’s post wasn’t so much [...]</p>
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		<title>By: False Flag Operative</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-154016</link>
		<dc:creator>False Flag Operative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 27 Feb 2008 15:26:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-154016</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I had plans for writing a long post on why withholding your vote in November is a perfectly rational, defensible and principled stance if you’re offended by racist dogwhistles coming out of the Clinton camp or sexist dogwhistles coming from Obama. Why? Because it’s not the voter’s job to just suck it up and vote for someone who hasn’t worked for your vote; it’s the candidate’s job to make sure that he or she doesn’t turn off voters. And all the bullying about handing the election to McCain and losing Roe v. Wade isn’t going to change that one simple fact.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Why not vote for Ralph Nader?  He&#039;s running again.

McCain will probably win anyway.  The South is worth 168 electoral votes, and McCain will probably win all of them anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I had plans for writing a long post on why withholding your vote in November is a perfectly rational, defensible and principled stance if you’re offended by racist dogwhistles coming out of the Clinton camp or sexist dogwhistles coming from Obama. Why? Because it’s not the voter’s job to just suck it up and vote for someone who hasn’t worked for your vote; it’s the candidate’s job to make sure that he or she doesn’t turn off voters. And all the bullying about handing the election to McCain and losing Roe v. Wade isn’t going to change that one simple fact.</p></blockquote>
<p>Why not vote for Ralph Nader?  He&#8217;s running again.</p>
<p>McCain will probably win anyway.  The South is worth 168 electoral votes, and McCain will probably win all of them anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: EG</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153538</link>
		<dc:creator>EG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 19:17:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153538</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;In light of all of this, I have often wondered why Election/Primary days are not made paid Federal/State Holidays so everyone is given the optimal opportunities to participate in the process.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I suspect that you&#039;ve answered your own question...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>In light of all of this, I have often wondered why Election/Primary days are not made paid Federal/State Holidays so everyone is given the optimal opportunities to participate in the process.</p></blockquote>
<p>I suspect that you&#8217;ve answered your own question&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: exholt</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153528</link>
		<dc:creator>exholt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:56:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153528</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Woah, tinfoil hattie. I was not directing my comment at you. I’m sorry I didn’t make that clear. I was referring to the “sheeple” I encounter every day who find JLo giving birth to be the most important current event and can’t be bothered to even make that 10 minute trip to the voting booth every 4 years.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

BadKitty,

The vast majority of people I know who don&#039;t vote are not doing it because they are sheep...but because their employment terms are such that they cannot make it to the polls after the opening/before the closing when you factor in commuting time and the necessity of having to work two or more jobs to make ends meet.*  

Moreover, while volunteering to work in a political campaign/monitor the election process is a valuable service....it is unfortunate that one needs some level of economic privilege such as a well-paying job with reasonable employment terms so one can take off days/leave work early to partake......a privilege I doubt most people have.  

In light of all of this, I have often wondered why Election/Primary days are not made paid Federal/State Holidays so everyone is given the optimal opportunities to participate in the process.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Woah, tinfoil hattie. I was not directing my comment at you. I’m sorry I didn’t make that clear. I was referring to the “sheeple” I encounter every day who find JLo giving birth to be the most important current event and can’t be bothered to even make that 10 minute trip to the voting booth every 4 years.</p></blockquote>
<p>BadKitty,</p>
<p>The vast majority of people I know who don&#8217;t vote are not doing it because they are sheep&#8230;but because their employment terms are such that they cannot make it to the polls after the opening/before the closing when you factor in commuting time and the necessity of having to work two or more jobs to make ends meet.*  </p>
<p>Moreover, while volunteering to work in a political campaign/monitor the election process is a valuable service&#8230;.it is unfortunate that one needs some level of economic privilege such as a well-paying job with reasonable employment terms so one can take off days/leave work early to partake&#8230;&#8230;a privilege I doubt most people have.  </p>
<p>In light of all of this, I have often wondered why Election/Primary days are not made paid Federal/State Holidays so everyone is given the optimal opportunities to participate in the process.</p>
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		<title>By: PortlyDyke</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153510</link>
		<dc:creator>PortlyDyke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 18:14:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153510</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Your strongest explicit argument is “stop blaming the voters and blame the candidates”. For what? Losing support?&lt;/em&gt;

No -- for willfully throwing support away, which, if the arguments of those who want me to shut up about sexist and racist tactics are valid -- &quot;This election is too important for us to be picky about that stuff!&quot; &quot;ZOMG four more years of Republicans!&quot; -- if those arguments hold water, than it would follow that the Democratic candidates, and later, the selected nominee, would need and want every single Democratic voter, &lt;em&gt;plus &lt;/em&gt;a bunch of undecideds and fed-up Republicans.  

Since there &lt;em&gt;are &lt;/em&gt;other words to use, and other black minister singers to bring onto your stage, and it &lt;em&gt;is &lt;/em&gt;possible to make an apology after a gaff, the fact that the candidates are not choosing these options is, to my mind -- just . . . . stupid, and would seem to indicate that &lt;em&gt;they &lt;/em&gt;don&#039;t think this election is important enough to, you know -- listen to the complaints of feminists, queers, and people of color when they are offended or put off by the choices of the candidates.

Boy, &lt;em&gt;that&#039;s&lt;/em&gt; new, eh?

I&#039;m guessing that the people who have taken time and energy to lecture me about how important this election is haven&#039;t actually taken the time to write their candidate and say:  &quot;Hey, you&#039;re throwing away votes.&quot; -- which would seem the logical thing to do if you&#039;re concerned about a  Dem win in November.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Your strongest explicit argument is “stop blaming the voters and blame the candidates”. For what? Losing support?</em></p>
<p>No &#8212; for willfully throwing support away, which, if the arguments of those who want me to shut up about sexist and racist tactics are valid &#8212; &#8220;This election is too important for us to be picky about that stuff!&#8221; &#8220;ZOMG four more years of Republicans!&#8221; &#8212; if those arguments hold water, than it would follow that the Democratic candidates, and later, the selected nominee, would need and want every single Democratic voter, <em>plus </em>a bunch of undecideds and fed-up Republicans.  </p>
<p>Since there <em>are </em>other words to use, and other black minister singers to bring onto your stage, and it <em>is </em>possible to make an apology after a gaff, the fact that the candidates are not choosing these options is, to my mind &#8212; just . . . . stupid, and would seem to indicate that <em>they </em>don&#8217;t think this election is important enough to, you know &#8212; listen to the complaints of feminists, queers, and people of color when they are offended or put off by the choices of the candidates.</p>
<p>Boy, <em>that&#8217;s</em> new, eh?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m guessing that the people who have taken time and energy to lecture me about how important this election is haven&#8217;t actually taken the time to write their candidate and say:  &#8220;Hey, you&#8217;re throwing away votes.&#8221; &#8212; which would seem the logical thing to do if you&#8217;re concerned about a  Dem win in November.</p>
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		<title>By: BadKitty</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153488</link>
		<dc:creator>BadKitty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 17:07:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153488</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;AND I don’t sit on my ass and watch American Idol, either.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Woah, tinfoil hattie.  I was not directing my comment at you.  I&#039;m sorry I didn&#039;t make that clear.  I was referring to the &quot;sheeple&quot; I encounter every day who find JLo giving birth to be the most important current event and can&#039;t be bothered to even make that 10 minute trip to the voting booth every 4 years.  

My bad.  Sorry.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>AND I don’t sit on my ass and watch American Idol, either.</p></blockquote>
<p>Woah, tinfoil hattie.  I was not directing my comment at you.  I&#8217;m sorry I didn&#8217;t make that clear.  I was referring to the &#8220;sheeple&#8221; I encounter every day who find JLo giving birth to be the most important current event and can&#8217;t be bothered to even make that 10 minute trip to the voting booth every 4 years.  </p>
<p>My bad.  Sorry.</p>
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		<title>By: Corey</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153480</link>
		<dc:creator>Corey</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 16:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153480</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If they disagree with the merits of my argument, aren’t they at least responsible to understand the actual point of my post? Jus’ sayin’.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I would say yes, but for several complications: 

1) As per zuzu&#039;s post, apparently reading your post as an implicit argument for not voting was a common misreading.
2) Your strongest explicit argument is &quot;stop blaming the voters and blame the candidates&quot;. For what? Losing support? If the candidates are making sub rosa sexist and homophobic comments--but support never changes--they why bother with the issue of blame? Blame for the election that they won&#039;t lose because people (like yourself) who were bothered by those comments voted for them anyway? What would people be blaming the voters for then?
3) There&#039;s a strong case to be made that your implicit argument is &quot;we&#039;re going to get thrown under the bus just like we&#039;ve been thrown under the bus before&quot;--to which the commenters you refer to responded.  They weren&#039;t buying the Obama language (or McClurkin apperance) as dogwhistles. (Perhaps in this case it would be closer to say they rejected your premise)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If they disagree with the merits of my argument, aren’t they at least responsible to understand the actual point of my post? Jus’ sayin’.</p></blockquote>
<p>I would say yes, but for several complications: </p>
<p>1) As per zuzu&#8217;s post, apparently reading your post as an implicit argument for not voting was a common misreading.<br />
2) Your strongest explicit argument is &#8220;stop blaming the voters and blame the candidates&#8221;. For what? Losing support? If the candidates are making sub rosa sexist and homophobic comments&#8211;but support never changes&#8211;they why bother with the issue of blame? Blame for the election that they won&#8217;t lose because people (like yourself) who were bothered by those comments voted for them anyway? What would people be blaming the voters for then?<br />
3) There&#8217;s a strong case to be made that your implicit argument is &#8220;we&#8217;re going to get thrown under the bus just like we&#8217;ve been thrown under the bus before&#8221;&#8211;to which the commenters you refer to responded.  They weren&#8217;t buying the Obama language (or McClurkin apperance) as dogwhistles. (Perhaps in this case it would be closer to say they rejected your premise)</p>
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		<title>By: Ledasmom</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153455</link>
		<dc:creator>Ledasmom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 15:20:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153455</guid>
		<description>Well, for what it&#039;s worth, I&#039;ll probably be voting for whoeverthehell is the Democratic candidate this time through, or perhaps not: I&#039;m in Massachusetts, so it&#039;s not likely to make a hell of a lot of difference.
But what irritates the ever-living fuck out of me is any Democratic primary candidate using these cheap rhetorical tricks, for what cause?  For the big, moral cause of being the Democratic candidate in the general election.  The implication is that both Clinton and Obama thought it was important enough that they be the one on the top of the ticket that it didn&#039;t matter if they insulted part of their presumptive constituency to get there.  Seriously, another Democrat getting to run for president instead of you is worth being racist, sexist or anyotherist?  Hell, I&#039;m an obnoxious little snot and I don&#039;t have anything like the sort of ego that would lead me to make that determination.
This election had so much potential to make me feel good about voting for the eventual candidate, and now I&#039;m not going to, and that &lt;em&gt;pisses me off.&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, for what it&#8217;s worth, I&#8217;ll probably be voting for whoeverthehell is the Democratic candidate this time through, or perhaps not: I&#8217;m in Massachusetts, so it&#8217;s not likely to make a hell of a lot of difference.<br />
But what irritates the ever-living fuck out of me is any Democratic primary candidate using these cheap rhetorical tricks, for what cause?  For the big, moral cause of being the Democratic candidate in the general election.  The implication is that both Clinton and Obama thought it was important enough that they be the one on the top of the ticket that it didn&#8217;t matter if they insulted part of their presumptive constituency to get there.  Seriously, another Democrat getting to run for president instead of you is worth being racist, sexist or anyotherist?  Hell, I&#8217;m an obnoxious little snot and I don&#8217;t have anything like the sort of ego that would lead me to make that determination.<br />
This election had so much potential to make me feel good about voting for the eventual candidate, and now I&#8217;m not going to, and that <em>pisses me off.</em></p>
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		<title>By: Jasi</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153446</link>
		<dc:creator>Jasi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153446</guid>
		<description>The Presidency is just a job.  I don&#039;t give a flying fuck if this person is obnoxious, arrogant, dresses funny, etc.  I vote for the person most likely to push the agenda most in-line with my interests.  Call me a jackass, whatever.  Clinton, at this moment, is the preferred.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Presidency is just a job.  I don&#8217;t give a flying fuck if this person is obnoxious, arrogant, dresses funny, etc.  I vote for the person most likely to push the agenda most in-line with my interests.  Call me a jackass, whatever.  Clinton, at this moment, is the preferred.</p>
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		<title>By: False Flag Operative</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153436</link>
		<dc:creator>False Flag Operative</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Feb 2008 14:18:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/02/23/what-she-said-2/#comment-153436</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Back in 2000 many friends who (like me) were Nader supporters made similar arguments, claiming that there was no real difference between Gore and Bush, so why waste your vote on either? You can vote for Nader or just not bother at all. Remind us how that worked out…&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I&#039;m sick of the Democrats.  I hate them even more than the GOP now.  I&#039;m voting for Nader now.  The Democrats can&#039;t possibly win this election.  Their attacks on on another are going to hurt them, and McCain will win easily.  The superpatriots in the GOP must be laughing their asses off.  Thanks Democrats for throwing away yet another election...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Back in 2000 many friends who (like me) were Nader supporters made similar arguments, claiming that there was no real difference between Gore and Bush, so why waste your vote on either? You can vote for Nader or just not bother at all. Remind us how that worked out…</p></blockquote>
<p>I&#8217;m sick of the Democrats.  I hate them even more than the GOP now.  I&#8217;m voting for Nader now.  The Democrats can&#8217;t possibly win this election.  Their attacks on on another are going to hurt them, and McCain will win easily.  The superpatriots in the GOP must be laughing their asses off.  Thanks Democrats for throwing away yet another election&#8230;</p>
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