In any event, whether the unwanted pregnancy is due to rape or to consensual relations means that another human being has come into existence. Whether you FEEL good or bad about this new member of the human species, that human being is NOT the rapist or the man, but a completely innocent, compltely defenseless, and completely dependent third party who had NOTHING to do with the circumstances that brought about her existence.

Blaming the child for its existence is like blaming the woman for rape. And killing the child because her mother rejects her is to establish that a big person can kill a small person on WHIM, not for objective do-or-die reasons.

For every “hard case” where a mother is faced with a high-risk pregnancy there is literally thousands of pregnancies where it’s NOT a question of abort or die.

Being Pro-abortion in today’s America is to be OK with a woman killing a baby up to the 42nd week, for any or no reason at all other than her whim. In other words, to have an option – a “choice” to give another person life, but refuse.

Abortion is to say “no” forever to the very real fact that a child will naturally love its mother.

Abortion is to decide, to choose that the child must die – in 98% of cases – not to “save” the life of the mother, but to “save” her lifestyle, her convenience.

You think I’m a hater for pointing out the obvious? What’s more hateful? To speak truth about the reality of love and life or to actually choose to kill a completely innocent person because the person “gets in my way” or “traumatizes me” through no fault of their own?

If a evil man kicked in your door at 2am and dropped off a newborn infant and then vanished, and right there in the basket was some milk, some diapers, and the some clothes, but you chose to ignore the needs of the child out of anger and hatred for the man and his imposition on your freedom…. your choice is still the choice to take it out on the innocent party, not the guilty one.

It’s a choice to victimize another victim of the bad situation rather than together with that victim choose life and a life time of their gratitude and love….

Me arguing that you ought not turn your back on an innocent person who will eternally be grateful to you and love you unconditionally is not “hate”.

Hate is to wish evil on another person. You are claiming that the “suffering” of pregnancy against one’s wishes is a bigger thing, a bigger harm, bigger evil than you actually killing the innocent child who hasn’t intended you any harm and is herself a victim of the sad situation! What could be more bloodthirsty and less peaceful than that sort of attitude???

Making your feelings/choice/”freedom” more important than the evident life of another person, and not just more important but the justification for positively harming and killing them in order to vindicate yourself is to establish a moral principle that personal convenience, personal whim is a higher value than life itself.

And once THAT principle is established in society, there can be no rational basis for claiming that human beings have INTRINSIC human rights inasmuch as everyone’s rights will really be dependent on the whim of the strong and powerful to do whatever the heck they want to do and can do with the weak.

How can the poor demand the rich take care of their medical needs if they don’t have intrinsic value as individual members of our species? Intrinsic meaning not dependent on other factors?

To claim that YOUR FEELINGS trump life itself is to choose to become an unjust aggressor!

The man who rapes a woman because he wants to and can is exercising “his right to choose”! He feels good about it, he claims it’s no big deal, and he might even believe – in some cultures – that raping a foreigner is no different than having sex with an animal. Subjectively he’s in the very same place as outraged women who deny the humanity of the child in their womb and believe their right to not be bothered trumps the right to life of that child.

And because they can ‘terminate’ they feel justified in terminating “the fetus”. Might makes right? Because you feel good about something it magically becomes OK?

That’s a moral universe of dog-eat-dog barbarism. The war of the strong over the weak. The place men were in that justified the great evils of the last 100 years.

It’s not a nice, peace-loving, live and let live, “open-minded” world view to believe one’s own whim and feelings trump the right of life for another person who is innocent, defenseless, and dependent on you for protection and life itself.

To choose a dead baby rather than a live one who will be eternally grateful and love you is a sad “choice” that women ought not make and ought not be forced into making.

One cannot choose to kill a defenseless, innocent, utterly dependent human being and still be a “nice” and peaceloving person, anymore than the rapists’ choice to abuse a woman allows him to claim to be innocent and harmless because subjectively he feels smug and good about himself.

She may not like the fact that this little stranger is there,

Interestingly, if I leave my door unlocked and come home to find a stranger of whatever size in my living room, eating my food and messing up my books, I can call the cops have that stranger thrown out, even if that stranger has nowhere else to go. Why on earth do you think I have fewer moral rights over my uterus than my living room?

It doesn’t justify a mother of a toddler from abusing her 3 year old, so how could it justify a mother of a fetus from killing her 3 month old?

She sure got pregnant right away, to have a fetus and a 3 month old! Irish twins!

BTW, I am pro-abortion. I want every woman on this earth to be forced to have an abortion, more than one, in fact. I want them held down, tied to tables if need be, and forced to undergo surgery, regardless of whether or not any particular woman wants to have a child, or wants to be pregnant. Her wishes don’t matter – the pregnancy will be aborted. The position you’re arguing against is called the pro-choice position, where every person chooses, talking it over with whomever she chooses, whether or not to carry a pregnancy to term.

Except women HAVE died because you hold the fetus in higher regard than the woman carrying it. It doesn’t matter if you “called” on her to die or not–my point was that the policies you push for and promote endanger women’s lives, and I showed you how.

Again, while the women have the right to life, so does the child. Both ought to live. Neither ought to be killed.

Again, tell that to Angela Carder. BTW, that line about the strong eliminating the weak? Well, the strong pro-life movement contributed to her death. Go, you!

Of COURSE women are JUST AS VALUABLE as their children. Because I say the fetus has a right to life does not mean the mother doesn’t.

Of COURSE! And if the pregnancy will kill the mother, you don’t mind sacrificing both of them! Just as long as she doesn’t have an abortion.

Indeed. Like Angela Carder, who was terminated since her life was less valuable and respecting her wishes was inconvenient for those so-called pro-lifers who wanted to pretend that her pregnancy would not endanger her life. It was inconvenient to acknowledge her wish to live, and her family’s wish that she live.

But the child in her womb is not the rapist.

She may not like the fact that this little stranger is there, she may be emotionally distraught at all the sacrifices she’ll have to make and be lonely and angry. But none of those emotions JUSTIFY her taking her grief out on the child as though the child’s life is the problem.

So we’ll force her to continue with a pregnancy that she does not want (from an act that you have already decided is statistically likely to be consensual anyway) and put her body at risk. Pregnancy does have a huge affect on a woman’s body and health, but what do you care? It’s far more convenient to wag your finger in the faces of traumatized women and insist they not hate the innocent fetus, insist that it’s good that they be further traumatized, and force them yet again to do something with their bodies they do not want to do.

And yes–the pregnancy IS the problem when it’s forced on her. She already had her wellbeing endangered by rape, her life harmed by rape, and her psyche harmed by rape. Forcing her to endure a pregnancy she does not want–a pregnancy caused by her rape is inhuman and evil. It exacerbates her trauma. I know of women who have been through this, I’ve seen the damage this crap has done, and your self-righteous posturing and erasure of these women is truly disgusting.

This isn’t about us “hating” women, it’s about women being so wrapped up in their own convenience that they hate the innocent to death….and then go off and call themselves Peace-lovers and people who care about the poor….so long as the poor don’t inconvenience their “lifestyles”.

Actually, you do hate women. You do pit the woman against the fetus. You do prioritize the well-being of the fetus over the well-being of women. You do insist that it’s about “convenience” when you’ve never been pregnant and have no idea what it’s like. You do ignore and belittle what traumatized women have gone through. You do ignore and belittle what women with ectoptic pregnancies and miscarriages go through (and are forced to risk) thanks to your concern about “innocent” fetal life. All for your own conviencence and moral comfort.

Now that’s pretty hateful.

It doesn’t justify a mother of a toddler from abusing her 3 year old, so how could it justify a mother of a fetus from killing her 3 month old?

This was already explained. Read, then post your morally empty misogynstic screeds.

Women have the right to life and they also ought not be abused, used, raped, etc. But their victim status does not GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO VICTIMIZE others. It’s not the child’s fault if the father was a rapist!

How dare you. How fucking dare you. What type of monster does one need to be to say something like this? YOu would force a raped woman to carry a reminder of her attack for nine months?! You would force a woman to let a rapist leech off her body for nine months?!

how about if she’s 12?

You are a heartless misogynist.

No one is calling on the woman to “die” because we believe her child ought to live.

No one is calling on people to “hate” the mother because we believe she ought to show some love for her unborn daughter or son.

This is not an either/or question but a “both/and” – both mother and child have the right to life and both ought to be helped and nurtured and supported. If she doesn’t feel she can be a good mother, then by all means, lets make it super easy for her to give the child up for adoption because life is better than death.

What sense does it make to react to an unplanned pregnancy or even rape – (which the pro-abortion Alan Gutmacher Institute claims only accounts for 5% of all abortions) by killing the innocent child and not prosecuting the evil man?

Women have the right to life and they also ought not be abused, used, raped, etc. But their victim status does not GIVE THEM THE RIGHT TO VICTIMIZE others. It’s not the child’s fault if the father was a rapist!

If anyone deserves punishment it should be the men, not the offspring.

Again, to choose to intentionally kill the child is to choose to kill the innocent.

And choosing to kill someone who is not a threat to your life is to choose evil. Now a child is inconvenient. Pregnancy has REAL DEMANDS on a woman’s body and lifestyle (no caffine, alcohol, drugs….medical bills, aches, pains, suffering… it’s not a walk in the park. But it’s not the same thing as “dying” or “being killed” either. Pregnancy is a natural thing – so it’s not amazing that most women can carry to term and deliever without major complications.

Again, while the women have the right to life, so does the child. Both ought to live. Neither ought to be killed.

The child is not an unjust aggressor. In our civilization, in our laws, in whole warp and woof of our society, we make a common, fundamental distinction between people who are unjust aggressors and those who are not.

It’s against the law to shoot someone who accidentally strays onto your lawn.

It’s NOT against the law to shoot a grown man who has just gotten done kicking down your door at 2am and is now advancing down the hall way intent on raping you. Because the grown adult has no business being in your home at 2am and no one has the right to rape another, a woman has the right to defend herself.

But the child in her womb is not the rapist.

She may not like the fact that this little stranger is there, she may be emotionally distraught at all the sacrifices she’ll have to make and be lonely and angry. But none of those emotions JUSTIFY her taking her grief out on the child as though the child’s life is the problem.

It doesn’t justify a mother of a toddler from abusing her 3 year old, so how could it justify a mother of a fetus from killing her 3 month old?

A woman doesn’t lose her right to life by being a mother – but neither ought her daughter lose HER right to life just because mommy doesn’t want the burden of pregnancy.

That’s where it boils down to the Liberals valuing their own CONVENIENCE over the right of someone else to life.

Both ought to live. Society ought to help BOTH to live. The Church certainly calls on BOTH to live and for the community to help, starting first with the immediate family, the spouse, the grandparents, etc. And anyone who calls themselves Catholic ought to choose life FOR BOTH, not death to one for the sake of convenience of the other.

If a woman can justify abortion, there’s no logical basis for society to draw a hard and fast line against the strong getting rid of the weak on the very same basis: because they can and they want to.

There’s nothing more bloodthirsty, more war-mongering than a worldview that allows private people to “terminate” others because they happen to feel them to be inconvenient. Not threats to life and limb, just inconvenient.

This isn’t about us “hating” women, it’s about women being so wrapped up in their own convenience that they hate the innocent to death….and then go off and call themselves Peace-lovers and people who care about the poor….so long as the poor don’t inconvenience their “lifestyles”.

YOu mean those fetus-incubating things are PEOPLE! LIVING, BREATHING PEOPLE!!

omgshoez!