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	<title>Comments on: Unsafe illegal abortion killing women in Mozambique</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 14:11:18 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Carolina</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-157147</link>
		<dc:creator>Carolina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 03:22:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Having served as a hospital administrator in Mozambique, having heard the cry of a mother following the death of her child to malnutrition or malaria, I can tell you that life took a different meaning for me. Life of a new birth, be it of poorest economic circumstances, brings Hope.  
Years have passed since I was there but I can still hear the mother&#039;s cry of death, of assisting attendents to help a mother sob her way into her own fetal position in the back of a worn out pickup truck and drive her home to her hut.
Some way the neighbor ladies would know of death, and would have swept her yard and gotten out the best grass mat for her to rest on as they consoled her back to daily living. Nothing has ever touched me so deeply. Thanks. c/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Having served as a hospital administrator in Mozambique, having heard the cry of a mother following the death of her child to malnutrition or malaria, I can tell you that life took a different meaning for me. Life of a new birth, be it of poorest economic circumstances, brings Hope.<br />
Years have passed since I was there but I can still hear the mother&#8217;s cry of death, of assisting attendents to help a mother sob her way into her own fetal position in the back of a worn out pickup truck and drive her home to her hut.<br />
Some way the neighbor ladies would know of death, and would have swept her yard and gotten out the best grass mat for her to rest on as they consoled her back to daily living. Nothing has ever touched me so deeply. Thanks. c/</p>
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		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-156362</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 06:44:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-156362</guid>
		<description>Oh my god... there&#039;s a girl shooting a shotgun on the front page of this site!! I never noticed that before. How shocking and violent.

I suspect she is trying to shoot down a flying fetus. What a reprehensible little tyke.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh my god&#8230; there&#8217;s a girl shooting a shotgun on the front page of this site!! I never noticed that before. How shocking and violent.</p>
<p>I suspect she is trying to shoot down a flying fetus. What a reprehensible little tyke.</p>
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		<title>By: Ania</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-156361</link>
		<dc:creator>Ania</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Mar 2008 06:39:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-156361</guid>
		<description>EG-
You wrote: &quot;Dissonance is the source of lots of humor–it’s a shame if you haven’t  realized that yet.&quot;

 Amusing dissonance ?- Sweet little girl, big- bad -boys&#039; gun. But no, no, no. She can kill too .Ha Ha Ha. Here is a great idea-let&#039;s pretend that images that promote hate and violence are not only harmless they are also funny. What a shame that I am not laughing!  


Ajane-
you wrote: &quot;Is that seriously all the material you have, Ania&quot;

No.
Lets&#039; blame pro-life for abortions and for women who died or suffered in Mozambique 

I am a prgnent woman in Mozambique.  I am poor and not l educated but I know I have the follwoing chioces

 A   -Have the baby
AB   -Abort the prengnancy at a &quot;traditional practitioner&quot;-unsafe
ABC  -Abort the pregnency at a hospital (fee, permiton, wait period, etc.)

I can also predict the logical consequences of my actions:

If A    - I save the baby, do not put my life in danger, life will get harder with another baby 
If AB   -I kill the baby, put myself in a lot of danger, I might even die
If ABC -I Kill the baby, put myself in a lot of trouble, see above, have a medial prcedure that potentialy may harm me physicaly and psychologicaly.

In contrary to many of you, I am mature enough to understand that  If I choose AB or ABC I cannot blame pro-life, becasue pro-life does not promote any of the above. If I suffer, and I most likly will, I should blame pro-choice-because they promote these practices. I can also blame myself for the very wrong decision that I have made.

And if I choose to have the baby I would love to have pro-choice donate some of the mony they spend on abartions to me and to my baby. How about that? 
Pro-life way- 2 lives saved
Pro-choice way- 1 or 2 lives taken away



Pro-life values: love, repsect for life, promotion of  familes, responsibility
Pro-choice values: death, promotion of oneself, do what you like</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EG-<br />
You wrote: &#8220;Dissonance is the source of lots of humor–it’s a shame if you haven’t  realized that yet.&#8221;</p>
<p> Amusing dissonance ?- Sweet little girl, big- bad -boys&#8217; gun. But no, no, no. She can kill too .Ha Ha Ha. Here is a great idea-let&#8217;s pretend that images that promote hate and violence are not only harmless they are also funny. What a shame that I am not laughing!  </p>
<p>Ajane-<br />
you wrote: &#8220;Is that seriously all the material you have, Ania&#8221;</p>
<p>No.<br />
Lets&#8217; blame pro-life for abortions and for women who died or suffered in Mozambique </p>
<p>I am a prgnent woman in Mozambique.  I am poor and not l educated but I know I have the follwoing chioces</p>
<p> A   -Have the baby<br />
AB   -Abort the prengnancy at a &#8220;traditional practitioner&#8221;-unsafe<br />
ABC  -Abort the pregnency at a hospital (fee, permiton, wait period, etc.)</p>
<p>I can also predict the logical consequences of my actions:</p>
<p>If A    &#8211; I save the baby, do not put my life in danger, life will get harder with another baby<br />
If AB   -I kill the baby, put myself in a lot of danger, I might even die<br />
If ABC -I Kill the baby, put myself in a lot of trouble, see above, have a medial prcedure that potentialy may harm me physicaly and psychologicaly.</p>
<p>In contrary to many of you, I am mature enough to understand that  If I choose AB or ABC I cannot blame pro-life, becasue pro-life does not promote any of the above. If I suffer, and I most likly will, I should blame pro-choice-because they promote these practices. I can also blame myself for the very wrong decision that I have made.</p>
<p>And if I choose to have the baby I would love to have pro-choice donate some of the mony they spend on abartions to me and to my baby. How about that?<br />
Pro-life way- 2 lives saved<br />
Pro-choice way- 1 or 2 lives taken away</p>
<p>Pro-life values: love, repsect for life, promotion of  familes, responsibility<br />
Pro-choice values: death, promotion of oneself, do what you like</p>
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		<title>By: JivinJ</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155657</link>
		<dc:creator>JivinJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:21:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155657</guid>
		<description>ElleBeMe,
It doesn&#039;t really answer the question for me.  

Are prolife organizations required to delve into subjects that they don&#039;t consider their issue?   Does  this work for non-prolife organizations as well?  For example, is the Sierra Club to blame for women in Mozambique going to traditional practitioners for abortions?

If not, then I&#039;m struggling to see why prolife organizations whom often have very specific goals should begin promoting contraception use overseas.  Basically, you appear to be mad at prolife groups for not doing what Planned Parenthood and other organizations are supposedly doing.  It seems to me that you think prolife organizations should change their mission from protecting the unborn to providing contraceptives to developing nations and if they don&#039;t then they&#039;re just sitting on their moral rears.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ElleBeMe,<br />
It doesn&#8217;t really answer the question for me.  </p>
<p>Are prolife organizations required to delve into subjects that they don&#8217;t consider their issue?   Does  this work for non-prolife organizations as well?  For example, is the Sierra Club to blame for women in Mozambique going to traditional practitioners for abortions?</p>
<p>If not, then I&#8217;m struggling to see why prolife organizations whom often have very specific goals should begin promoting contraception use overseas.  Basically, you appear to be mad at prolife groups for not doing what Planned Parenthood and other organizations are supposedly doing.  It seems to me that you think prolife organizations should change their mission from protecting the unborn to providing contraceptives to developing nations and if they don&#8217;t then they&#8217;re just sitting on their moral rears.</p>
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		<title>By: JivinJ</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155653</link>
		<dc:creator>JivinJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 14:09:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155653</guid>
		<description>Dianne,
Are you referring to efforts to prevent organizations who promote and commit abortions from getting U.S. tax dollars?  If so, then if the organizations really wanted to obtain U.S. family planning funds, they could quit providing and promoting abortion.  They choose not to.  Abortion, apparently, is more important to them than receiving family planning funds.  

So prolifers are to blame for women in Mozambique choosing to go to traditional practitioners because some prolifers favor abstinence education?  Now that&#039;s some sound reasoning.  You&#039;re really grasping at straws here. 

Many states and many European countries have waiting periods for abortions - are women there dying because they choose to go to traditional practitioners?  Let&#039;s see.  Nope.   Can you honestly think that a 24-hour waiting period is what causes someone to go to a traditional practitioner?  How many other surgeries require an individual to wait awhile before the surgery?  


Netter,
No, the actual problem is that women in Mozambique are choosing to go to traditional practitioners.  Simply asserting otherwise and blaming prolifers is hardly convincing.  

Cara,
I&#039;m well aware of what the Global Gag Rule/Mexico City policy is.  However, no evidence has been provided here that the choice of abortion providing and promoting organization to continue to provide and promote abortion instead of getting overseas U.S. family planning is the cause of women in Mozambique choosing to go to traditional practitioners for abortions.  

&lt;i&gt; Logic is fun!&lt;/i&gt;

I suggest you take a community college class in logic because you don&#039;t appear to know how logic actually works.  In this pro-choice echo chamber it seems to work something like this:

1. Women choose to do something dangerous.
2. We don&#039;t like prolifers and we think (without providing a scrap of evidence) their policy forced this woman to do something dangerous.
Therefore,
3.  Prolifers are evil and to blame for women choosing to do something dangerous.  

Logic is fun!!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dianne,<br />
Are you referring to efforts to prevent organizations who promote and commit abortions from getting U.S. tax dollars?  If so, then if the organizations really wanted to obtain U.S. family planning funds, they could quit providing and promoting abortion.  They choose not to.  Abortion, apparently, is more important to them than receiving family planning funds.  </p>
<p>So prolifers are to blame for women in Mozambique choosing to go to traditional practitioners because some prolifers favor abstinence education?  Now that&#8217;s some sound reasoning.  You&#8217;re really grasping at straws here. </p>
<p>Many states and many European countries have waiting periods for abortions &#8211; are women there dying because they choose to go to traditional practitioners?  Let&#8217;s see.  Nope.   Can you honestly think that a 24-hour waiting period is what causes someone to go to a traditional practitioner?  How many other surgeries require an individual to wait awhile before the surgery?  </p>
<p>Netter,<br />
No, the actual problem is that women in Mozambique are choosing to go to traditional practitioners.  Simply asserting otherwise and blaming prolifers is hardly convincing.  </p>
<p>Cara,<br />
I&#8217;m well aware of what the Global Gag Rule/Mexico City policy is.  However, no evidence has been provided here that the choice of abortion providing and promoting organization to continue to provide and promote abortion instead of getting overseas U.S. family planning is the cause of women in Mozambique choosing to go to traditional practitioners for abortions.  </p>
<p><i> Logic is fun!</i></p>
<p>I suggest you take a community college class in logic because you don&#8217;t appear to know how logic actually works.  In this pro-choice echo chamber it seems to work something like this:</p>
<p>1. Women choose to do something dangerous.<br />
2. We don&#8217;t like prolifers and we think (without providing a scrap of evidence) their policy forced this woman to do something dangerous.<br />
Therefore,<br />
3.  Prolifers are evil and to blame for women choosing to do something dangerous.  </p>
<p>Logic is fun!!!</p>
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		<title>By: EG</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155311</link>
		<dc:creator>EG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155311</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Can somone explain why the home page of this web site shows an image of a little girl shooting from her gun and smilling.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

&#039;Cause it&#039;s fun, and its fun comes from the dissonance between our cultural associations with smiling little blonde girls and our cultural associations with large shotguns.  Dissonance is the source of lots of humor--it&#039;s a shame if you haven&#039;t yet realized that.  

For one thing, feminism does not necessarily equal pacifism, and for another, many of us here are able to tell the difference between drawings of imaginary little girls holding guns and actual, real-life violence.  Sometimes I watch movies in which sharks eat people, but that doesn&#039;t mean that I&#039;m pro-man-eating shark.  It&#039;s this amazing faculty many people have--the ability to differentiate between fantasy and reality.

Now that your question has been answered, perhaps you&#039;ll allow the rest of us to return to the topic at hand.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Can somone explain why the home page of this web site shows an image of a little girl shooting from her gun and smilling.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8216;Cause it&#8217;s fun, and its fun comes from the dissonance between our cultural associations with smiling little blonde girls and our cultural associations with large shotguns.  Dissonance is the source of lots of humor&#8211;it&#8217;s a shame if you haven&#8217;t yet realized that.  </p>
<p>For one thing, feminism does not necessarily equal pacifism, and for another, many of us here are able to tell the difference between drawings of imaginary little girls holding guns and actual, real-life violence.  Sometimes I watch movies in which sharks eat people, but that doesn&#8217;t mean that I&#8217;m pro-man-eating shark.  It&#8217;s this amazing faculty many people have&#8211;the ability to differentiate between fantasy and reality.</p>
<p>Now that your question has been answered, perhaps you&#8217;ll allow the rest of us to return to the topic at hand.</p>
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		<title>By: AJane</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155309</link>
		<dc:creator>AJane</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 06:22:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155309</guid>
		<description>Is that seriously all the material you have, Ania?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Is that seriously all the material you have, Ania?</p>
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		<title>By: Ania Franczyk</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155228</link>
		<dc:creator>Ania Franczyk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 05:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155228</guid>
		<description>Many of you seem very aggravated with my comment -no surprise-I am 100 % pro saving unborn and you are 0 % pro saving unborn (whom many are girls, does that change your point of view, I don&#039;t think so), but no one adressed the first part of my question.  Can somone explain  why the home page of this web site shows an image of a little girl shooting from her gun and smilling. Does she represent who a feminist sholud be? Does anyone know?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Many of you seem very aggravated with my comment -no surprise-I am 100 % pro saving unborn and you are 0 % pro saving unborn (whom many are girls, does that change your point of view, I don&#8217;t think so), but no one adressed the first part of my question.  Can somone explain  why the home page of this web site shows an image of a little girl shooting from her gun and smilling. Does she represent who a feminist sholud be? Does anyone know?</p>
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		<title>By: EG</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155111</link>
		<dc:creator>EG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 22:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155111</guid>
		<description>Some things are worth fighting for.  One of those things is the right of a woman not to be forced to continue a pregnancy against her will.  Another is to prevent women dying painfully and uselessly.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some things are worth fighting for.  One of those things is the right of a woman not to be forced to continue a pregnancy against her will.  Another is to prevent women dying painfully and uselessly.</p>
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		<title>By: ElleBeMe</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155086</link>
		<dc:creator>ElleBeMe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 03 Mar 2008 20:51:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/03/02/unsafe-illegal-abortion-killing-women-in-mozambique/#comment-155086</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;And how would you propose that prolifers fix this problem? &lt;/blockquote&gt;

Okay here goes:

Support global family planning programs that offer contraception and VALID sex ed other than &quot;don&#039;t have sex unless you&#039;re married&quot;  Thanks to US &quot;pro-life&quot; policies and politicians, international family planning funded by the US restricts funds to ANY nation/program that DARES talk about condoms or BC.  If they offer abortion services of any kind they are immediately barred from ANY fuinding.

See, &quot;pro-lifers&quot; in the US aren&#039;t content with US kids being taught anything other than abstinence.  They think it should be GLOBAL policy, regardless of foreign cultures or practices.  In nations where women are infected with HIV from their husbands, do you see the &quot;pro-life&quot; activists pushing for condom usage to #1 halt the disease and #2 prevent HIV+ women from having children?  Nope.  They still chant their abstinence mantra and BC fails mantra.

I suggest &quot;pro-lifers&quot; get off their moral (and I use that term VERY loosely when describing those people) @sses and start dealing with reality.  NO &quot;pro-life&quot; organization in the US condones BC and NO US pro-life organization that has a hand in international family planning condones BC or accurate sex-ed.  It is their morality (gag) and all who do not follow suit are good enough for death.  

Does that answer your question?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>And how would you propose that prolifers fix this problem? </p></blockquote>
<p>Okay here goes:</p>
<p>Support global family planning programs that offer contraception and VALID sex ed other than &#8220;don&#8217;t have sex unless you&#8217;re married&#8221;  Thanks to US &#8220;pro-life&#8221; policies and politicians, international family planning funded by the US restricts funds to ANY nation/program that DARES talk about condoms or BC.  If they offer abortion services of any kind they are immediately barred from ANY fuinding.</p>
<p>See, &#8220;pro-lifers&#8221; in the US aren&#8217;t content with US kids being taught anything other than abstinence.  They think it should be GLOBAL policy, regardless of foreign cultures or practices.  In nations where women are infected with HIV from their husbands, do you see the &#8220;pro-life&#8221; activists pushing for condom usage to #1 halt the disease and #2 prevent HIV+ women from having children?  Nope.  They still chant their abstinence mantra and BC fails mantra.</p>
<p>I suggest &#8220;pro-lifers&#8221; get off their moral (and I use that term VERY loosely when describing those people) @sses and start dealing with reality.  NO &#8220;pro-life&#8221; organization in the US condones BC and NO US pro-life organization that has a hand in international family planning condones BC or accurate sex-ed.  It is their morality (gag) and all who do not follow suit are good enough for death.  </p>
<p>Does that answer your question?</p>
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