To relate this to the discussion, this is also the *only* anime show where I actually *like* the main, het pairing, and didn’t feel a need to “slash” any of the male characters (ie, have them hook up with other dudes). Probably this is because the stereotypical male/female dynamic is broken down so effectively in the show; the main female character Revy is a good shooter first, a dangerous opponent second, a good “coworker”/pirate third…and happens to be a Chinese-American *woman*. The main male character (and burgeoning romantic interest) is quieter and more polite than Revy, and is the only one of the group to ever actually cry in the show, but he also calmly instructs a mafia boss to execute a group of enemies at one point. There is nothing obnoxiously stereotypical or sexist about their relationship, and neither one is hyperfeminized or ridiculously masculine (okay, so Revy’s a little macho sometimes; she *is* a mercenary… :p)

Compare this to some of the shows I prefer yaoi pairings for: generally male/male relationships and male characters are made to be more interesting/realistic/emotionally charged/significant to the plot/etc, and female characters seem to just be tossed in to prevent a total “sausage fest” (…not to be crude! :p) For example: “[some dude] and [some other dude] are childhood companions and lifelong rivals, struggling in the midst of a war with divided loyalties that threaten to bring their friendship to the brink of destruction!!! …Oh, yeah, there’s this chick that likes one of ‘em, too.” Somehow, the male/female relationship is not the most compelling one here… :p

On the other hand, yah the guys in this particular game aren’t very attractive (except that bookish fellow–hi!) but that’s the artist’s fault, she appears to have misplaced some of their muscle groups. :\ Technical artistic flaws are the reason I don’t read this stuff too much . . . it’s one of those unintentional turn-offs . . . but you find that in any kind of manga, it’s just the nature of a very mass-produced medium, I guess. I actually think there are a lot of fan artists, including here in the U.S., that make the shounen-ai that I would actually want to look at (and they usually don’t go as far as these games in terms of obvious fantasizing, hahah).

However I do think a big draw for girls to shounen-ai is the absense of a female character–it either distances you from the scene (which may be preferable if you’re uncomfortable with yourself or just don’t think you’re particularly pretty) or removes the “rival” female figure–I notice in a lot of fanfiction communities, female characters are often brutally attacked and bashed by female fans. There seems to be an innate competition and irrational hatred–even for a fictional character–that can distract you from enjoying the story. Sure, it’s kind of immature to flat-out reject female characters just because they’re there–but since when is the teen romance genre supposed to be mature anyway?

I think a lot of people complain about shounen-ai but I kind of like it because it makes it acceptable for girls to be into that sort of thing. :\ It’s annoyingly acceptable for guys here to want to see two girls making out but apparently it’s TOTALLY GROSS AND WEIRD if it’s the other way around.

Relationships between the male characters are so often more well-developed in most genres. I’ve found that most quality yaoi fanfiction is set in series which are not part of the boys love genre at all. Sukisho, for example, has some very nice shonen ai going on, and there’s a lot of room for playing around even within canon, but I see very little fanfiction about it. But I have no trouble finding Fullmetal Alchemist yaoi fanfiction.

The thing is, as long as I’m writing fanfiction and speculating anyway, I’d rather take a female character and speculate on her personality and backstory and on her relationship with a man or another woman.

It’s not that I think people shouldn’t write yaoi instead if that’s what they want to do, and I do understand what you’re saying. It’s just that my perspective is so different on this, because I’m not so fascinated with the men or their relationships, and people complain about female characters I actually love and love to write for. (I can plead not guilty to Rinoa though, not having played Final Fantasy VIII and barely knowing who she is. I love FFX Rikku though, and various other female anime and video game characters. I love Yuna too, who is widely seen as “weak” and “useless” — though I don’t write her that much.)

It’s not that I feel like people need to justify liking yaoi to me, anyway! It’s just that… well, like I said, I have such a different perspective and sometimes it leaves me feeling left out, or like I have bad taste in characters or admire the wrong kind of women. (I don’t mean people here are accusing me of that, though. And I don’t mean to get so wildly off topic. But it’s an honest feeling I do have when these discussions start up.)

I don’t know how well the game would sell here. Alot of women might feel embarassed about buying it, cause in our society it’s considered bad for women to actually display sexual desire. I mean, outside of mainstream liking jocks or manly-men desire.

It’s really difficult for me to say why I’m attracted to Bishounen, when as you pointed out, they do look disturbingly unrealistic and young. However, I think there are alot of women out there who like guys with long hair, like from the hair-band metal days. Or women who like men who look more sensitive, instead of the standard jock format all girls are supposed to like.

I think if they wanted to make a bishojo game for American girls, they should have it be more like a dating sim. Like going on a date with a Bishounen or something. The whole idea of the boys being naked, and the showers and stuff frankly just seems too uh…stimulating, to make for good gameplay. It’s frankly, rather hard to play a video game while blushing, and then being embarassed cause you’re blushing and people will wonder why ect.

I’m glad the video game community is embracing gay players, which like women have been mostly ignored by the gaming community. Of course, it doesn’t surprise me in the least that Nintendo would be the first, if not only company, to target gay gamers. Since you know, all the systems that may have been originally from Japan, but now are so Americanized all you can buy for them are fighting games and sports games. Nintendo is the only game system that has retained a good sense of Japanese culture.

I also know this might sound stereotypical of gays, but since I don’t really know any gay guys personally, I was kind of wondering if they were happy about Nintendo releasing a Pink DS. Cause it’s like saying, “Ha! I’m the non-standard gamer who isn’t insanely wrapped up in people seeing me as macho!” or something. That line sounded like something crazy out of a comedic Anime.

I’ve witnessed too many cases where immigrants, international students, and foreign tourists…even ones who did not have much formal education knew far more about US history than your average American adult.

Funny that. Same here! It’s hilarious considering they are always talking about the relatively new citizenshop tests for immigrants, that many born cicizens would not be able to answer.

I think I might pick up one of those books at some point. :)

Exholt, I didn’t know that, thuogh it doesn’t surprise me. I must admit my knowledge of WWII is very Eurocentric, in part because the history taught in the UK focuses on the war in Europe.

Anne Onne,

Join the club.

What US history taught in most US schools from kindergarden to the end of high school also tends to be quite Eurocentric. I was luckier than most American students as I had the privilege of attending an urban public magnet school with good history teachers who encouraged us to go beyond and question the standard American history texts along with offering elective history courses on topics such as the history of genocide. This was one reason I was shocked to find plenty of American college first years who did not know about US historical events such as the US government’s unconstitutional internment of Japanese-American during WWII until they heard about it from college classmates such as myself or happen to take a college-level American history course covering it.

Then again, I don’t know much about history education in the UK, but the average American’s knowledge of their nation’s history…even of seemingly popularly dictated “need to know” aspects seems to be wanting from my experience and that of many friends and acquaintances. I’ve witnessed too many cases where immigrants, international students, and foreign tourists…even ones who did not have much formal education knew far more about US history than your average American adult.

If you’re interested, one amusing book by a history professor I would strongly recommend is “Non-Campus Mentis”. A similar older book dealing with British history teaching published in the 1930’s is “1066 and all that.”

Astraea, you know, that’s very interesting. I think it’s because of a lot of things, but part of it may be precisely because an openly shonen ai series already focuses on m/m love, whereas other series which don’t feel like they have the potential. I can understand the urge to adapt a story, to make it your own and give it a different interpetation which I think drives fanfiction somewhat, and part of the allure is knowing that it will be different to canon. Maybe there’s a sense of needing to write your own because you know that you’re not going to get canon romance between your two favourite guys in a non-shonen-ai series that isn’t present in a well-written series that aready focuses in that direction.

Thuogh I think it’s partly about popularity, and having just the right kind of fan conditions online . Really popular series will have lots of fanfiction of all sorts, because millions of people watch them. It’s a bit of a positive feedback situation, because to get a very large fanbase a series needs to be popular enough, but once it becomes famous for being famous (kind of like a bestseller book or cult movie), it carries on building momentum. A lot of series don’t get that amount of exposure, and in a smaller fandum, it’s up to luck as to what you get. That’s what I feel, at least. :)