BSG Discussion Thread: Episode 4-1 “He That Believeth In Me”

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27 Responses

  1. Daisy
    Daisy April 4, 2008 at 11:32 pm |

    I’m real upset about Capt Tigh!

    NOT Captain Tigh!!!!!

  2. Cain
    Cain April 5, 2008 at 12:36 am |

    Wow, they couldn’t have cliffhung that more if they wanted to. That said, Starbuck’s pistol-whipping frenzy = teh awesome.

  3. Tanooki Joe
    Tanooki Joe April 5, 2008 at 1:16 am |

    I was skeptical last year about the whole “four established characters are suddenly Cylons” angle, but I think its going to turn out brilliantly now. Really going to bring back the paranoia themes from the first two seasons.

  4. Ink Asylum
    Ink Asylum April 5, 2008 at 3:08 am |

    I predict this season will be the year of guilty “I’m a Cylon” stares into the camera.

  5. The Girl Detective
    The Girl Detective April 5, 2008 at 3:14 am |

    To be honest, I didn’t 100% believe that the four were actually cylons until Anders’s eye did the thing.

    Also, we all know Kara isn’t actually going to shoot Roslin, but it’s still a great ending.

  6. cooper
    cooper April 5, 2008 at 4:23 am |

    So, here is the thing:

    I can’t buy that for all the time Tigh, Chief and Tory spent next to their respective authority figures, none of them spilled it. Fuck you Tigh. If you had a real sense of duty, you wouldn’t wager the safety of the ship on your own questionable will, you would fucking tell Bill and willfully take your place in secured quarters.

  7. Noumena
    Noumena April 5, 2008 at 9:22 am |

    Haven’t we learned by now that every one of Tigh’s moral instincts is exactly the wrong thing to do? It’s like WWJD, only you ask What Would Tigh Do, and then you do the opposite.

    Of course he should have told Admiral Adama. That’s pretty much exactly why he isn’t.

  8. marc sobel
    marc sobel April 5, 2008 at 9:44 am |

    Dumb continuity question. If in Razor the cylon forms had just been created, how did Tigh get to be as old as he is ?

  9. marc sobel
    marc sobel April 5, 2008 at 9:46 am |

    update for type.

    Dumb continuity question. If in Razor the cylon human models had just been created, how did Tigh get to be as old as he is ?

  10. Jen in Ohio
    Jen in Ohio April 5, 2008 at 10:21 am |

    What a great return. While it’s true that I’m a blithering fangirl for this show and I love practically everything they do, I am especially enchanted with the warped religious symbolism they use. It is nearly as delicious as Starbuck.

    I am wondering about when that Raider scanned Anders’ eye, whether they all backed off merely because they picked up that the final cylons had been activated, or whether something else was transmitted, in one direction or the other or both.

    My final cylon guess of the week (subject to change every week): Gaeta.

  11. catrala
    catrala April 5, 2008 at 11:15 am |

    Ah, that was awesome.

    Particularly:
    - the pretty explosions!
    - the Anders red-eye moment (so cool)
    - Starbuck’s back to kicking ass and I love it!

    Roslin, however, is freaking me out more than she used to. Like, a lot more.
    And Tory has more lines! This is good.

    A very strong start to season 4… can’t wait until next week!

  12. Daisy
    Daisy April 5, 2008 at 12:37 pm |

    Speaking of religious symbolism, this means if Chief is a Cylon, there is another half-toaster Baby Savior in existence! When Pres Roslin finds out, she’ll be mainlining more baby-blood.

    And Humans-Cylons all become ONE in the end, I predict. Amen. Om. Etc.

  13. Ink Asylum
    Ink Asylum April 5, 2008 at 1:06 pm |

    The Raider eye-scanning moment opens a whole can of worms. After all, aside from Xena-Cylon, who’s been shelved, none of the human Cylons know the identity of the Final Five. However, it seems the robot Cylons do, or at least have a method of scanning for them.

  14. norbizness
    norbizness April 5, 2008 at 2:05 pm |

    Marc: Better yet, he fought with Adama in that war; the hybrids that were being built to presumably power the base ships were still in the production phase. Personally, I think they’ve invested a little too much in the “final five” gimmickry as a hook for the final season, and not focusing on the organic community (although the toaster revolt predicted for episode 2 could be interesting… anything with Dean Stockwell is). I think they left a whole lot of opportunities back on New Caprica, but maybe the set/SFX budget wouldn’t allow for much more than 4 episodes there.

    Thankfully, it seems like those interminable, dreary father/son (Bill/Apollo) exchanges may soon be at an end. Pretty sick of that.

  15. hanna jörgel
    hanna jörgel April 5, 2008 at 2:24 pm |

    I thought Tigh and Adama met AFTER the war at that bar when they were both serving on a transport ship after they both mustered out of the service. Remember that flashbacky episode from early season 2?

  16. norbizness
    norbizness April 5, 2008 at 2:37 pm |

    You may be right, Hanna, but he also pretty clearly fought on the side of the humans in the first war, and I assume that military service records still exist.

  17. The Girl Detective
    The Girl Detective April 5, 2008 at 2:43 pm |

    The Raider eye-scanning moment opens a whole can of worms. After all, aside from Xena-Cylon, who’s been shelved, none of the human Cylons know the identity of the Final Five. However, it seems the robot Cylons do, or at least have a method of scanning for them.

    Unless the raider had no idea Anders was a cylon until the eye thing. (Maybe the eye thing was a sort of self-preservation reflex.)

    Why the raider paused to scan him instead of just shooting him, though, I don’t know.

  18. Tanooki Joe
    Tanooki Joe April 5, 2008 at 5:06 pm |

    @ norbizness,

    I’m sure the records can be faked. Boomer, after all, had a complete set of military records as well.

  19. denelian
    denelian April 5, 2008 at 5:06 pm |

    im still going with a totally different thing – they AREN’T Cylons, they’ve had chips inserted into their heads, to react to certain things to make them THINK they are cylons and do certain things to mess up the fleet…

    really. it could be.

  20. Asher Abrams
    Asher Abrams April 5, 2008 at 5:42 pm |

    Woo hoo!

    Memo to Kara: If you want to convince people that you’re not a Cylon, I’d recommend a different approach. But hey, I’m not Starbuck.

    (Hmmm, let me think about that. Actually, she’s basically just being Starbuck. So maybe it’s not such a bad plan after all.)

    Oh, and I’m leaning toward agreeing with 10/JenOH about Gaeta. Starbuck would be the obvious choice, but we know Gaeta has a secret he’s really uptight about – viz. the GB interrogation.

    Speaking of No More Mr. Nice Gaius, I thought there was a little bit of, literally, deus-ex-machina going on with his “sacrifice” for the sick child. But it did move his character’s moral development forward very nicely.

  21. violet
    violet April 5, 2008 at 11:09 pm |

    Memo to Kara: If you want to convince people that you’re not a Cylon, I’d recommend a different approach. But hey, I’m not Starbuck.

    Actually, I think convincing people she’s not a Cylon is exactly what she’s trying to. And I think it’ll work.

    My money’s on Kara neither shooting Roslin nor even to threaten her at gunpoint (what would that even accomplish?). Instead, she’s holding a gun to Roslin’s face to not shoot her.

    Then she’s going to give the gun to Roslin and be like, “I am Kara Thrace. I was born on Caprica. I know who I am. I think I do. But if you have any doubts, there’s just one of us holding a gun in this room.”

    Come to think of it, that would have been a better cliffhanger, as Roslin just might pull the trigger, and Kara just might not die from it (or not stay dead, more to the point).

    (In fact, though, Roslin’s going to accept that Kara is an ally pretty quickly, though she’ll still question her humanity. She will not make the obvious retort, “Killing me wouldn’t help the Cylons a whole lot. They want the fleet. If you’re a plant, this could be part of a Very Cunning Plan.” Because that would muck with the emotional punchline.)

  22. Ms C
    Ms C April 6, 2008 at 9:26 am |

    Wacky speculation here, but Lee’s question to Bill – when he asked if it was Zak who had come back instead of Kara, would Bill accept Zak? – makes me wonder if Zak Adama is somehow the fifth of the Final Five and out there somewhere.

  23. Midgetqueen
    Midgetqueen April 7, 2008 at 11:46 am |

    I second the Gaeta-as-the-fifth speculation. Especially after the scene when Pres. Roslyn is talking about needing to know who the Five are, and then it cut to Starbuck and Gaeta. Bing! That clue’s been used so often in TV writing that it’s just cliche at this point.

    I doubt that it’s Starbuck. Which would leave Gaeta.

    And Cooper, yes I totally agree. If it were me, and I had any sense of real loyalty to my human friends at all, I’d tell someone “Dude. I’m a frakking Cylon. Put me in the brig pronto before my programming kicks in and I kill someone!”

  24. Dreams and Links « Words From The Center, Words From The Edge

    [...] happy except for the moments with Gaius which deserve a post of their own. Anyway there’s a discussion thread over at Feministe, if you want to talk about it or feel free to comment on this post with your theories and [...]

  25. puggins
    puggins April 7, 2008 at 4:41 pm |

    Bah, I’d say 19 out of 20 people would’ve done exactly what Tigh did. He’s made every single decision in his life (or at least he thinks he did), so why would he stop now? He thinks that Boomer was too weak-willed to resist the programming, but he won’t be. It’s such a typical human reaction that expecting the opposite would be absurd. Of course, Tigh isn’t human, so why even try to think in those terms? Either his human programming made him do something inimitably human, or his cylon programming subtly prevented him exposing the four cylons. Either one makes complete sense.

    As for Anders… assuming the robotic Cylons are programmed to recognize the final five is going a bit too far. Anders probably used (unbeknownst to him, of course) a back-door way to hack the Cylon attack program, or something to that effect. The previews for next week seem to indicate that they don’t know why the hell the attack stopped, so the cylons probably didn’t recognize the command when it was issued, they just started following new orders.

  26. ACS
    ACS April 7, 2008 at 7:51 pm |

    I think the “final five” are Cylon human models, but in a different sense than the rest of the Cylons. Or, rather, I think that the Cylon human models are the same thing as the twelve Lords of Kobol, the progenitors of the human race.

    – ACS

  27. Nick
    Nick April 11, 2008 at 12:06 pm |

    I can’t believe that nobody has yet suggested the possibility that the raider was simply uploading and/or activating a program within Anders, knowing full-well what it was doing, and that the cylon attack was simply a cover for initiating this, the next step along a greater purpose. The Cylons have let pass far too many opportunities to destroy humanity entirely, so it should be more than safe by now to assume this is not their true objective.

    Maybe Gaius really IS meant to be Jesus, rather than just be made to think he is. After all, how long have we been bombarded with “this is all happened before, and it will happen again” statements tied along witth religious-historical serendipities. The old testament tells of God becoming so frustrated with his creations that he wipes them out and starts over (multiple times); it would make sense if the human-form Cylons were the “flood” or rapture created directly by God to wipe out or remove humanity, perhaps in anger at their own attempt to “create life”, and/or simply “his” next attempt at creation. This would also explain the evasively unexplained missing link in Cylon evolution (it seems even the Cylons are not so sure about it).

    I’m surprised I haven’t seen anyone else suggest that the “Six” in Gaius’ mind is actually a direct personification of God. In fact, the continuity for this theory remains intact throughout the entire show, not just within very recent revalations.

    I’m not really a Christian at all, nor do I like it when people peddle their own religion via some form of non-religious entertainment, but I am still fairly well educated in religious “history”, and there are far too many synchronicities within BSG (especially, but not limited to season 4.3) for the writers to NOT realize what they are doing. With that said, by the time they finalized the script for 4.3, I doubt they even knew themselves how BSG will end.

    Even if all these theories turn out to be true, I feel, for once, that nobody is trying to shove Christianity down our throats like some undercover Jehova’s Witness trying to trick you into believing in Christianity before you even realize it yourself. Religious undertones or not, this is BSG. This is just good writing. Nobody behind this show is trying to convert a bunch of sci-fi atheists into Chrisitianity on behalf of the greater good, or some other BS like that. This is entertainment.

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