Comments on: This is a Feminist Issue Too

By: Jasmine Iqbal

Jasmine Iqbal — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:59:58 +0000

Don’t you think that if Hijras, ok, transgendered people if you feel more comfortable with that, were treated with more respect, more humanity and more dignity, if they weren’t forced into sex work, it would be a sign that Pakistan is moving forward?
Don’t you think I see that? Of course, I do, but why is the status of transgendered people so abysmal in Pakistan? The answer is simple, theocratic patriarchy, which pyschologically abuses young males as much as young females. Yet we have people on Feministe who, intolerably, defend patriarchy in the name of woc. Any defence of Islam- is Islam, the same Islam that has turned life for transgendered people into a hell of constant sexual dehumanization.
By the way, I am condemned by me own society meself, I loved another girl, so what, but I paid the price for that. I got nothing personally against transgendered people, what I am saying is that it is part of American Feminism which is not our cultural definition (me own personal views notwithstanding, cos as a person whose own sexuality is suppressed by Islam, I think everyone has a right to sexual expression). If you want to fight back against people who oppress transgendered people, you got to confront the Pakistani counterparts of hate groups like “God Hates Fags”, sick psychos, we got them as well, it’s just that Pakistan is SO sexually repressed, transgendered people are seen as a sexual outlet, a commodity, and they are abused and used, relentlessly, even by those on the religious right who loathe them. The way forward for you is to TOTALLY distance yourselves from reactionary forces, like religious groups, black Muslims, woc Muslim sympathisers, people who refuse in other words to join in constant attacks upon the abuses perpetrated under Islam and white patriarchal power systems too. If you are not ready to join us, then don’t silence us with false accusations of racism cos we’ll just turn back and say, “So what, so we’re racist Pakis, what the hell is that compared to the horrors of gender oppression we suffered?”

By: Holly

Holly — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:53:49 +0000

I probably should have said this before — but I also have no idea what you are referring to when you keep mentioning attacks on Pakistani feminists. Nobody in this thread even mentioned Pakistan or Pakistani feminists until you showed up, and that’s not what this post or comments are about — they’re about a black man who was murdered by the state, his family, black communites of men and women being targeted by police brutality. I don’t see how any of that, or choosing to write about that a week ago, or anything else on this website constitutes an attack on Pakistani feminists. Maybe you’re talking about something that happened on some other site, but why here?

With that, I am done talking here. Make any last comments you want, and I’m closing the thread, since this has been a huge derail away from what the point of discussion was supposed to be.

By: Jasmine Iqbal

Jasmine Iqbal — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:30:28 +0000

You can focus on your real enemy, Muslim and Christian fundamentalists, agents of patriarchy, men who see you as sex objects, but this requires a HARDENING of attitude and a willingness for less thought, more action and more solidarity. Any attacks on Pakistani feminists- MUST STOP- you are not very focused, not radical, not militant, WE ARE, nd we know exactly what we’re doing. Your role is to assist when needed, if you are needed. America is not our priority, it’s only value is the extent to which it can assist in revolutionary change in our stagnant societies. Chinese Communists are better allies in many ways, actually.

By: Jack

Jack — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:26:58 +0000

I’ll be clear on this: Feministe is NOT in alliance with black nationalists (still don’t know where that come from)

Not to be nit-picky, but this is not to say that Feministe, as a whole, opposes or condemns Black nationalism, as a whole. Right? Hopefully that goes without saying but something about it made me a bit uneasy.

By: Jasmine Iqbal

Jasmine Iqbal — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:25:40 +0000

There isn’t anything derogatory about anything I said, I think you are smart enough to realize that, within the framework of your own society, you are culturally valid, and I am basically happy about that. In Pakistan, life is is vicious struggle for women, of course, we know the situation for you there.
The feminist progressive struggle however is one of ruthless action and it is not centered on the United States, do not presume that it is, or that it ever will be. Do not also speak with arrogance against us, we do not like it. We are not ure colony, our feminism is strong cos Pakistani girls got TOP CLASS MORALS. Again, we talk of vast cultural patterns, the individual ts here, of course, the individual is nothing and of no concern.

By: Holly

Holly — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:15:54 +0000

Jasmine, I’m glad you came to the thread to share your thoughts on international disparities and power differences in feminism, on Pakistani women and feminism, on where you think priorities should be. However, I’m going to ask you to stop making derogatory comments and stereotypes about trans people, whether it’s Hijras or western folks you’re equating with Hijras (tv’s ts’ and tg’s as you put it). I’ll be clear on this: Feministe is NOT in alliance with black nationalists (still don’t know where that come from) but we ARE in solidarity with trans folks, including one of our bloggers. That would be me, I’m a tv, ts, tg, whatever you want to call us. On behalf of trans women, whether we have feminine gender presentations or not, whether we are poor or considered unclean or are in better circumstances, whether we’ve had to resort to sex work or are privileged enough to be able to write posts like this one — I find your characterizations of us very offensive. I think hijras, and many feminists I know of in Pakistan and India who’ve worked in solidarity and support of hijras, would probably agree with me. So I’m not going to tolerate that on this comments thread. You can feel free to take it elsewhere and post whatever you want on your own blog.

By: Jack

Jack — Thu, 01 May 2008 17:14:22 +0000

a woman can not be born a male, a woman can only be born as a female; yes, even in America. You must reevaluate the delinating concepts within feminism to be progressive people capable of joining in the liberation struggle in our countries (and America’s impoversihed ghettos).

So, in order for us to join or be allies to the liberation struggles of other countries, we need to be transphobic like you? a) Um, no thanks, and b) we’re all very lucky that you don’t get to be the sole arbitrator of who can be allies to the liberation struggles of Pakistani women or anyone else.

By: Jasmine Iqbal

Jasmine Iqbal — Thu, 01 May 2008 16:54:23 +0000

“If you’re saying that a woman who was born male……”

American friends, you have everything, we got nothing, we been suffering since the day we got born, but even you CAN’T change the biological condition of the species, a woman can not be born a male, a woman can only be born as a female; yes, even in America. You must reevaluate the delinating concepts within feminism to be progressive people capable of joining in the liberation struggle in our countries (and America’s impoversihed ghettos).

By: Jasmine Iqbal

Jasmine Iqbal — Thu, 01 May 2008 14:44:20 +0000

A Hijra is a male who decides to wear sari, shalwar kameez, make up, and wigs and present an extremely affected and exagerated idea of womanhood, that is an offensive charicature. These people form almost their own caste in Pakistan, and while historically, they was in the moghul courts, since the ending of the harem system they are simply male prostitutes. Hijras are in Pakistan seen begging at traffic lights or demanding money at births or marriages. Obviously, they got no affiliations with any Pakistani feminists and are seen as a male affront to women. The definition of femimisn can not cross gender. Now this is not to say they on a indivudual level we got no humanity, no, we see them as people who need to be liberated, but as MALE victims of patriarchy, proof that patriarchy is dysfunctional. There are also social aspects to consider, women in Pakistan, generally despise Hijras as unclean. HIjras undergo complete castration, this act marks their initiation into a lifetime of prostitution, again, proof of the filth and vice that thrives under theocratic patriarchy. The Hijras are a feminist issue as they have a very negative influence on womens’ health, especially with migrant laborers, who, being uneducated in a conservative religious society have sex with hijras, then pass HIV to their wives. The Hijra is therefore one more act of male abuse against innocent and highly moral Pakistani women.
The western version of our Hijras are tv’s, ts’ and tg’s. I hope this answers ure question.

By: Jasmine Iqbal

Jasmine Iqbal — Thu, 01 May 2008 14:29:08 +0000

Women of color ARE subject to police brutality, as are white women too. You seem to be implying once again that your feminism has an ethnocentric base and that any degree of extrapoluation to, falsely, include a black male under the feminist umberella is preferable to being gender inclusive and reaching out to white females, who are, obviously, victims of everything from human trafficking, sexual slavery and police brutality. You Americans debauched a whole generation of Slav women in eastern europe from 1991 onwards, those who got to America, many of them, found only a life of hell. Abuse, including police bruality, despite ure miserable history, is not solely focused on black americans, which, let’s face it, when you say black- you mean black male in the next breath. And u got every right to do that, if you want, but understand that it’s an extrapoluation, a black male can only become a ‘feminist issue’ by default, as can anything, from veganism to global warming, which is precisely Elaine’s train of thought. Obviously, if everything is feminism, then nothing is feminism. The Pakistani feminist fights against male supremacy, gender apartheid and the ruthless subjugation of women. I lived in a society where I was so repressed I became seriously mentally ill and this led to a suicide attempt. I discovered feminism as a means to educate meself as to my rights, I can not stand to see something that is precious to me diluted into an amorphous hotch potch of BDSM, environmentalism, America TRASH, and black male worship, not to mention- white liberal guilt- angst. The Pakistani feminist is focused, determined and a revolutionary. Her definition of feminism is MILITANT, tight and it concentrates all energy on fighting a single enemy- religious theocracy and its collaborators. You talk, we punch hard, we live on the front lines, we are radical fighters, men encompassed into your definitions, this is a jole, it’s men who are crushing the life out of us. We maximize, we are efficient, we waste no energy or resources, we fight. We will fight women who ape male sexual violence, who parrot patriarchal religious values like wearing the hijab, or link their cause to reactionary fascist movements. If a woc defends Islam, she is as guilty as a man who throws hydroclauric acid in a woman’s face simply cos she stepped outside her house. If a woman promotes fetishist fantasies, she is an agent of rape, if a woman extrapoluates to undermine feminism- she is a saboteur.