To me, this is just the same tired old dynamics being replicated yet again. Women are socialized to always put others first, not be assertive, downplay our own needs. To see this same thing happening within feminism is beyond disheartening.

I have had a hard time hearing this argument because it has too often been coupled with an anti-black american bias. White people are not the only ones who can have this bias.

western feminists like to apply our ideas of feminism to other cultures in ways that don’t respect the diversity of opinion and nuances of daily life that others live in

I feel like this is what you and Jasmine have been talking about. It seemed like Lauren was actually agreeing with points you guys have been making.

Also, when did women’s studies become something to deride within this conversation? Yeah, people with college education claiming some sort of expertise or authority over feminism or any other social justice movement, that’s bullshit and should be called for what it is. But I really don’t see that happening here, and I think that outside of that kind of elitism, it’s great that people study women’s lives, history, and feminism when they go to school. Why are you coming down on that? (Disclosure: I was a women’s studies concentrator.)

’sanctimonious women’s studies set’ is part of the feministe manifesto

What manifesto? You mean the tagline? Yeah, always took that as a sarcastic jab at anti-feminist naysayers.

PS Jack- ’sanctimonious women’s studies set’ is part of the feministe manifesto

Sure is. It is also a direct reference to a misogynist blogger’s attempt to smack down other women, so I find it interesting that you appropriate the sentiment so nicely.

Sorry, Jack, for derailing. I’ll bow out now.

poorly worded and lazy,

is bang on the money.

PS Jack- ‘sanctimonious women’s studies set’ is part of the feministe manifesto

And I thought you were the troll since I am new to the blog.

Apology accepted.

Jack: I was thinking particularly about a long series of essays that shaped my thinking on what is generally accepted as pat “multiculturalism” — which is frequently in danger of being defined by neocons, IMO — between Katha Pollitt, Susan Okin, and some other person, Bonnie Something?, about not letting the patriarchs of one culture dominate the discussion any more than we let them dominate ours — and what they used as examples, were the debates surrounding FGM, veiling, sexuality in religously dominated cultures, etc. There are plenty of other probably better pieces on the topic, but I’m most familiar with these because I blogged about them a few years back.

As per this conversation and others like it, re: fragmentation, I think it gets particularly nasty because western feminists like to apply our ideas of feminism to other cultures in ways that don’t respect the diversity of opinion and nuances of daily life that others live in, which inevitably leads to tension even where the best of intentions lie, or worse, like to deem a particular issue “feminist” because it’s obvious. What I was trying to get at in my first comment, which was admittedly poorly worded and lazy, is that feminism so obviously intersects with other social justice movements in so many layers and textures that I think the movement would be remiss in trying to draw lines.

I wonder what your motivations are for trolling Feministe for the last few weeks.

And I thought you were the troll since I am new to the blog.

And you still have not answered Jack’s question.

Claiming you are some ‘particularly educated’ expert on feminism is condescending

It would be if I had said so, especially if I had aimed it at a particular poster as proof that my opinion is the end-all-be-all of feminist thought above another’s. But that’s not what I said. What I said, in the context of my statement, which references no one in particular, is that “Nevertheless, I happen to be particularly educated in the feminism part of that [human rights] formula and [here's where I could have been more clear in saying "therefore"] that’s what I primarily write about…” I am not referencing my “education” literally.

The drawings in Marcotte’s book were also both racist and condescending – and NOT ironic and amusing except to ‘particularly educated’ women who kid themselves about being experts in ‘multicultural interpretation’ after they have graduated from their insular American University.

Agreed, but I don’t know where Marcotte’s drawings can be figured into anything that I said above, nor why I have to answer for her. I’ve made my opinion on the issue very clear elsewhere.

I guess at this point, having been singled out based on one singular comment as an arrogant racist, I wonder what your motivations are for trolling Feministe for the last few weeks. As someone said above,

If you want people to listen to you on this and similar blogs you will have to be more respectful of other peoples’ experiences and reality. You cannot jump to conclusions and say things – as you are doing – that will completely antagonize the people you are trying to engage.

Forgive me if that’s arrogant.