Comments on: Quote of the Day: http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/ In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set. Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:12:24 +0000 hourly 1 By: Kelly http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-178595 Kelly Sun, 01 Jun 2008 11:33:37 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-178595 Hi I think this guy is cool enjoy the intelligence around his aura. You should check out Ali Eteraz he has some real insight into muslim women feminism. (It took me a while to realise he was a man). His wrting is beautiful. The Satire is on the spot. Hi

I think this guy is cool enjoy the intelligence around his aura.

You should check out Ali Eteraz he has some real insight into muslim women feminism. (It took me a while to realise he was a man). His wrting is beautiful. The Satire is on the spot.

]]> By: maisnon http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-177984 maisnon Wed, 28 May 2008 22:22:10 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-177984 So, crush on Jay Smooth continues unabated. *sigh* He's so dreamy! So, crush on Jay Smooth continues unabated. *sigh* He’s so dreamy!

]]> By: Discontented_Clownfish http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176923 Discontented_Clownfish Fri, 23 May 2008 22:14:51 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176923 This guy is awesome. Is it wrong that I want to hug him? He looks totally huggable. This guy is awesome. Is it wrong that I want to hug him? He looks totally huggable.

]]> By: IntellectualFeminist http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176637 IntellectualFeminist Thu, 22 May 2008 22:36:33 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176637 Kudos to this video! There needs to be more dialogue about manhood and homophobia in hip hop. I fear that the book, however, could sensationalize the idea rather than contribute to the dialogue. I suppose I'll have to pick it up and find out. Kudos to this video! There needs to be more dialogue about manhood and homophobia in hip hop. I fear that the book, however, could sensationalize the idea rather than contribute to the dialogue. I suppose I’ll have to pick it up and find out.

]]> By: Lee http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176510 Lee Thu, 22 May 2008 15:22:12 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176510 Torri and Kelsey -- The obsession with knowing whether or not a man is gay is IMO related to the obsession with being able to tell, immediately and from a distance, whether someone is male or female (hence the viciousness of disparaging comments about long hair on men and very short hair on women). It's all about not mistaking someone in the master class for someone in the subject class. Gay men get "downgraded" to female status by the people who have that obsession. I find that a useful counter for that kind of talk is to ask them directly why it matters -- they're not looking for a sexual partner, are they? This usually derails their brains enough to let me either make my getaway or change the subject! Torri and Kelsey — The obsession with knowing whether or not a man is gay is IMO related to the obsession with being able to tell, immediately and from a distance, whether someone is male or female (hence the viciousness of disparaging comments about long hair on men and very short hair on women). It’s all about not mistaking someone in the master class for someone in the subject class. Gay men get “downgraded” to female status by the people who have that obsession.

I find that a useful counter for that kind of talk is to ask them directly why it matters — they’re not looking for a sexual partner, are they? This usually derails their brains enough to let me either make my getaway or change the subject!

]]> By: MaggieJordan http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176438 MaggieJordan Thu, 22 May 2008 10:11:23 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176438 Roham, radicalized? No, you don't want to radicalize these girls anymore than they already are. PKK women in Eastern Turkey are known for their brutality and it was women in Lebanon, often from failed relationships, who pioneered suicide bombing in the 1980's. There is a lot of work on Palestinian female suicide bombers coming out of the Israeli prison system and what the Israelis found is that many are abuse survivors and women shamed by their own communities into desperation. No, don't radicalize them, that's the one thing you would never want. Now that's more than enough from me, I'm bowing out, just hope some of what I have said sticks. Roham,
radicalized? No, you don’t want to radicalize these girls anymore than they already are. PKK women in Eastern Turkey are known for their brutality and it was women in Lebanon, often from failed relationships, who pioneered suicide bombing in the 1980′s. There is a lot of work on Palestinian female suicide bombers coming out of the Israeli prison system and what the Israelis found is that many are abuse survivors and women shamed by their own communities into desperation. No, don’t radicalize them, that’s the one thing you would never want.
Now that’s more than enough from me, I’m bowing out, just hope some of what I have said sticks.

]]> By: MaggieJordan http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176423 MaggieJordan Thu, 22 May 2008 09:18:24 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176423 I have refered to TPHG and the millions of women like her as lesbian only in the sense that she sleeps with other women, period, which she does, obviously- they all do, though while totally denying their own lesbianism as we understand it, though not their sexuality. Their ideal is often to duplicate marriage after around the age of 23, when their behavior changes from girlish closeness in public to more formalized 'escorting' and 'watchfullness.' Here, these women are not self actualizing as lesbians, but as husband and wife, only one girl will serve tea, for example, only one will cook, only one will deal with guests and open conversations. Maturing same sex relationships in culturally closed societies almost replicate the power dynamics of heterosexual relationships, often, this is taken to extremes even with one girl requiring the other to adopt the veil. These girls do not and will not self identify using a western lexicon. But do you attack them for this? I have refered to TPHG and the millions of women like her as lesbian only in the sense that she sleeps with other women, period, which she does, obviously- they all do, though while totally denying their own lesbianism as we understand it, though not their sexuality. Their ideal is often to duplicate marriage after around the age of 23, when their behavior changes from girlish closeness in public to more formalized ‘escorting’ and ‘watchfullness.’ Here, these women are not self actualizing as lesbians, but as husband and wife, only one girl will serve tea, for example, only one will cook, only one will deal with guests and open conversations. Maturing same sex relationships in culturally closed societies almost replicate the power dynamics of heterosexual relationships, often, this is taken to extremes even with one girl requiring the other to adopt the veil. These girls do not and will not self identify using a western lexicon. But do you attack them for this?

]]> By: MaggieJordan http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176420 MaggieJordan Thu, 22 May 2008 09:06:23 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176420 I am going to put it crudely, and this is based on my experience working, admittedly not in Pakistan, but in Eastern Turkey, specifically with Kurdish women in the Diyarbakir region. There is however a strong cultural similiarity between Kurds and Pakistanis. I have met Kurdish women who were attached to other women in a very openly lesbian way. They were also frank about their feelings and why they felt like that. Yet if I had been crass enough to suggest that they were in fact lesbians, they probably would have thrown a glass of mint tea in my face. To put it as frankly as I can, women in Islamic culture sleep with each other, often year on year, and yet do not see this as lesbian behavior. There are cultural nuances here and there needs to be sensitivity rather than steamrollering right in there. Not only is the dialogue very pointless if you do, you also end up really convincing these women that the west is their enemy.You also imply these women are hypocrites, al la carte- you sleep with her and yet you're not lesbians? You simply can not socially categorize women from very conservative societies anyway you like. It is for them to define the nature of how and who they love, Jill, please, try to think out of the box on this one. Push against these women, they will reject it, trust me. And just for the record, any social anthropologist would back me up on the Pakistani Heretical Girl and I would like to hear from any who wouldn't. I am going to put it crudely, and this is based on my experience working, admittedly not in Pakistan, but in Eastern Turkey, specifically with Kurdish women in the Diyarbakir region. There is however a strong cultural similiarity between Kurds and Pakistanis. I have met Kurdish women who were attached to other women in a very openly lesbian way. They were also frank about their feelings and why they felt like that. Yet if I had been crass enough to suggest that they were in fact lesbians, they probably would have thrown a glass of mint tea in my face. To put it as frankly as I can, women in Islamic culture sleep with each other, often year on year, and yet do not see this as lesbian behavior. There are cultural nuances here and there needs to be sensitivity rather than steamrollering right in there. Not only is the dialogue very pointless if you do, you also end up really convincing these women that the west is their enemy.You also imply these women are hypocrites, al la carte- you sleep with her and yet you’re not lesbians? You simply can not socially categorize women from very conservative societies anyway you like. It is for them to define the nature of how and who they love, Jill, please, try to think out of the box on this one. Push against these women, they will reject it, trust me. And just for the record, any social anthropologist would back me up on the Pakistani Heretical Girl and I would like to hear from any who wouldn’t.

]]> By: Jasmine http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176317 Jasmine Wed, 21 May 2008 18:44:45 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176317 MaggieJordan, I really don't think you should call TPHG a lesbian if she herself doesn't identify that way. MaggieJordan, I really don’t think you should call TPHG a lesbian if she herself doesn’t identify that way.

]]> By: Jack http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176301 Jack Wed, 21 May 2008 16:47:23 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/19/quote-of-the-day-4/#comment-176301 MaggieJordan: TPHG has derailed many a thread with off-topic comments, and has said things that verge on (or straight up are) racist, transphobic, apparently against lesbians who don't look feminine, and otherwise offensive. She's been asked repeatedly to stay on topic and quit the offensive stuff; neither has happened. It's always unfortunate when someone gets banned, but I don't think that we Feministe bloggers should be required to put up with incessant derailment, offensive statements, and comments that are actually targeted at us as individuals or parts of our identities. Additionally, I think that not holding her responsible for the stuff she's writing here is pretty condescending and presumptive. And even if we were going to give her the benefit of the doubt in terms of cultural conflicts or misunderstandings and dismiss anything offensive, the constant, lengthy off-topic comments can't be explained away like that. MaggieJordan: TPHG has derailed many a thread with off-topic comments, and has said things that verge on (or straight up are) racist, transphobic, apparently against lesbians who don’t look feminine, and otherwise offensive. She’s been asked repeatedly to stay on topic and quit the offensive stuff; neither has happened. It’s always unfortunate when someone gets banned, but I don’t think that we Feministe bloggers should be required to put up with incessant derailment, offensive statements, and comments that are actually targeted at us as individuals or parts of our identities.

Additionally, I think that not holding her responsible for the stuff she’s writing here is pretty condescending and presumptive. And even if we were going to give her the benefit of the doubt in terms of cultural conflicts or misunderstandings and dismiss anything offensive, the constant, lengthy off-topic comments can’t be explained away like that.

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