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	<title>Comments on: &#8220;Natural Habitats&#8221;</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:13:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Rob</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-179190</link>
		<dc:creator>Rob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Jun 2008 09:55:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-179190</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t know if this thread is still going, but I&#039;d like second Holly re: matriarchy. It seems legendary matriarchal pasts were used as a justification for the oppression of women. Roughly, back when women were in control, they were horrible to us. Now the situation is reversed, so they&#039;re getting what they deserve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t know if this thread is still going, but I&#8217;d like second Holly re: matriarchy. It seems legendary matriarchal pasts were used as a justification for the oppression of women. Roughly, back when women were in control, they were horrible to us. Now the situation is reversed, so they&#8217;re getting what they deserve.</p>
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		<title>By: Lorelei</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178855</link>
		<dc:creator>Lorelei</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 19:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178855</guid>
		<description>wow, only twelve comments before the word &#039;primitive&#039; came into play!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>wow, only twelve comments before the word &#8216;primitive&#8217; came into play!</p>
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		<title>By: Olivia</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178812</link>
		<dc:creator>Olivia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 15:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178812</guid>
		<description>One phrase I heard and disliked was describing them as a &quot;Lost Tribe&quot;.  Uh, they were not &quot;lost&quot;, their people have been there all along.  Just because something is new to white people doesn&#039;t mean it didn&#039;t exist before.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One phrase I heard and disliked was describing them as a &#8220;Lost Tribe&#8221;.  Uh, they were not &#8220;lost&#8221;, their people have been there all along.  Just because something is new to white people doesn&#8217;t mean it didn&#8217;t exist before.</p>
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		<title>By: Alara Rogers</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178803</link>
		<dc:creator>Alara Rogers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 14:50:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178803</guid>
		<description>The Yanamamo are an extreme case. Anthropologists have been known to call them &quot;those bastards&quot; because studies seemed to indicate they&#039;re one of the few cultures to routinely violate the law of hospitality (that is, once someone is your guest you don&#039;t harm them.)

Many of the American Indian indigenous cultures had a high degree of respect for women, or high tolerance for gays, or often both. Some, like the Iroquois, had better treatment of women than *we* do (the notion of the origin matriarchy that lived in perfect harmony is a myth, but the Iroquois were in fact about as matriarchal as we are patriarchal, which is to say they didn&#039;t actively discriminate against men, but men went to live with wives&#039; families and most of the governing power was concentrated in the hands of the women&#039;s council. Of course, the Iroquois would also kill you dead if you crossed them, thus disproving the notion that matriarchy is peaceful and pacifistic.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Yanamamo are an extreme case. Anthropologists have been known to call them &#8220;those bastards&#8221; because studies seemed to indicate they&#8217;re one of the few cultures to routinely violate the law of hospitality (that is, once someone is your guest you don&#8217;t harm them.)</p>
<p>Many of the American Indian indigenous cultures had a high degree of respect for women, or high tolerance for gays, or often both. Some, like the Iroquois, had better treatment of women than *we* do (the notion of the origin matriarchy that lived in perfect harmony is a myth, but the Iroquois were in fact about as matriarchal as we are patriarchal, which is to say they didn&#8217;t actively discriminate against men, but men went to live with wives&#8217; families and most of the governing power was concentrated in the hands of the women&#8217;s council. Of course, the Iroquois would also kill you dead if you crossed them, thus disproving the notion that matriarchy is peaceful and pacifistic.)</p>
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		<title>By: Jill</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178667</link>
		<dc:creator>Jill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:47:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178667</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;They are animals unless you are claiming they are plants, protists, fungi, or bacteria.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Jesus, people. I realize humans are animals. I was using the word &quot;animals&quot; in its most common form, which typically refers to non-human animals. Ok? Ok. Now let&#039;s move on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>They are animals unless you are claiming they are plants, protists, fungi, or bacteria.</p></blockquote>
<p>Jesus, people. I realize humans are animals. I was using the word &#8220;animals&#8221; in its most common form, which typically refers to non-human animals. Ok? Ok. Now let&#8217;s move on.</p>
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		<title>By: Estella</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178665</link>
		<dc:creator>Estella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:44:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178665</guid>
		<description>Also, why are we so okay with letting them live in their primitive ways but all up in arms about say the FLDS wanting to do the same?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, why are we so okay with letting them live in their primitive ways but all up in arms about say the FLDS wanting to do the same?</p>
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		<title>By: Estella</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178664</link>
		<dc:creator>Estella</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 19:43:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178664</guid>
		<description>They are animals unless you are claiming they are plants, protists, fungi, or bacteria.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>They are animals unless you are claiming they are plants, protists, fungi, or bacteria.</p>
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		<title>By: mothworm</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178633</link>
		<dc:creator>mothworm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:58:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178633</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;the reported treatment of women is shudderingly horrifying to our sensibilities.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

See, this is where I start to have trouble with the cultural relativism and separate observer ideals of anthropology. Shouldn&#039;t the rape of women be considered an atrocity to &lt;em&gt;any &lt;/em&gt;sensibility?

And how is permanently walling off a culture (presumably to preserve/study it) any less condescending if you change the wording from &quot;natural habitat&quot; to &quot;homeland&quot;? Or for that matter, morally superior to interacting with it? Why does a stultifying/violent culture that only involves 30 people deserve protecting, but one with 30,000 or 30,000,000 doesn&#039;t?

Of course, I don&#039;t know exactly what this recently discovered culture is like, and I&#039;m not calling them savages, but I also don&#039;t think there&#039;s anything sacred about having been exceptionally isolated from the modern world.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>the reported treatment of women is shudderingly horrifying to our sensibilities.</p></blockquote>
<p>See, this is where I start to have trouble with the cultural relativism and separate observer ideals of anthropology. Shouldn&#8217;t the rape of women be considered an atrocity to <em>any </em>sensibility?</p>
<p>And how is permanently walling off a culture (presumably to preserve/study it) any less condescending if you change the wording from &#8220;natural habitat&#8221; to &#8220;homeland&#8221;? Or for that matter, morally superior to interacting with it? Why does a stultifying/violent culture that only involves 30 people deserve protecting, but one with 30,000 or 30,000,000 doesn&#8217;t?</p>
<p>Of course, I don&#8217;t know exactly what this recently discovered culture is like, and I&#8217;m not calling them savages, but I also don&#8217;t think there&#8217;s anything sacred about having been exceptionally isolated from the modern world.</p>
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		<title>By: Manon</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178580</link>
		<dc:creator>Manon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 05:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178580</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;Well, if the noun “savages” doesn’t apply to them, then I guess we can throw the word out&lt;/em&gt;

Fine by me.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>Well, if the noun “savages” doesn’t apply to them, then I guess we can throw the word out</em></p>
<p>Fine by me.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178529</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 23:28:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/05/31/natural-habitats/#comment-178529</guid>
		<description>Well, if the noun &quot;savages&quot; doesn&#039;t apply to them, then I guess we can throw the word out, as it now has no meaning.

&quot;Natural habitat&quot; is dehumanizing, yes.  The problem is not treating them as animals.  All human beings are animals.  The problem is treating them as not-human.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, if the noun &#8220;savages&#8221; doesn&#8217;t apply to them, then I guess we can throw the word out, as it now has no meaning.</p>
<p>&#8220;Natural habitat&#8221; is dehumanizing, yes.  The problem is not treating them as animals.  All human beings are animals.  The problem is treating them as not-human.</p>
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