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	<title>Comments on: Surrogate Exploitation</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 10:18:49 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: susieq</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-191585</link>
		<dc:creator>susieq</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jul 2008 14:32:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-191585</guid>
		<description>I have one child and after a series of tests was told that a second pregnancy would endanger my life (the first nearly took mine).  A dear friend of my family offered to be a surrogate for my family (free of charge). Of course it&#039;s a confusing issue, but if both parties understand the agreement, what&#039;s so bad about bringing a loved child into the world? I felt sick, and judged, after reading this post. Interesting points, but the most judgmental thing I&#039;ve encountered in a long, long time. Particularly if you can&#039;t personally understand the pain of not being able to give birth for medical reasons.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have one child and after a series of tests was told that a second pregnancy would endanger my life (the first nearly took mine).  A dear friend of my family offered to be a surrogate for my family (free of charge). Of course it&#8217;s a confusing issue, but if both parties understand the agreement, what&#8217;s so bad about bringing a loved child into the world? I felt sick, and judged, after reading this post. Interesting points, but the most judgmental thing I&#8217;ve encountered in a long, long time. Particularly if you can&#8217;t personally understand the pain of not being able to give birth for medical reasons.</p>
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		<title>By: Megan</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-191184</link>
		<dc:creator>Megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:14:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-191184</guid>
		<description>BTW - the majority of us are unable to adopt due to the laws in our countries. Why should we foster children? The writer has two children of her own - why didn&#039;t she foster needy children? Why didn&#039;t she spend a chunk of her money on foster care services. These children are not our responsibility and because we can&#039;t have our own children, nor adopt, does not mean we are responsible for caring for foster children.
ill-conceived judgements flying around this board, that you actually have to payout of pocket for foster children. That&#039;s fine for those than can afford it - like me - I have no problem. BUT the real tragedy is this: once the foster child&#039;s biological parents have sorted out whatever issues they had and are deemed suitable parents, the foster child that you have bonded with and that has bonded with you and your family, goes back to bio-parents and is NOT ALLOWED FURTHER CONTACT WITH HIS OR HER FOSTER FAMILY.

That is just cruel.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>BTW &#8211; the majority of us are unable to adopt due to the laws in our countries. Why should we foster children? The writer has two children of her own &#8211; why didn&#8217;t she foster needy children? Why didn&#8217;t she spend a chunk of her money on foster care services. These children are not our responsibility and because we can&#8217;t have our own children, nor adopt, does not mean we are responsible for caring for foster children.<br />
ill-conceived judgements flying around this board, that you actually have to payout of pocket for foster children. That&#8217;s fine for those than can afford it &#8211; like me &#8211; I have no problem. BUT the real tragedy is this: once the foster child&#8217;s biological parents have sorted out whatever issues they had and are deemed suitable parents, the foster child that you have bonded with and that has bonded with you and your family, goes back to bio-parents and is NOT ALLOWED FURTHER CONTACT WITH HIS OR HER FOSTER FAMILY.</p>
<p>That is just cruel.</p>
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		<title>By: Megan</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-191183</link>
		<dc:creator>Megan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 11:09:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-191183</guid>
		<description>I am one of those &quot;exploitive&quot; Western women going to India this year to have a surrogate carry my child for me.

It would augur the writer to research the feelings and attitudes of surrogate mothers in both the West, and developing countries before lamblasting  what is a well-researched and considered decision - by the surrogates and the intended parents - entering into a surrogacy arrangement.

The person writing the &quot;feminist&quot; viewpoint expressed here is the oppressor, not me. We all want to do this. The writer has made an incredibly condescending judgement about surrogates and their motives for being surrogate mothers. don&#039;t assume for one moment that surrogates are forced into making their decision to be surrogates. 

I can&#039;t think of a more beautiful gift of empowerment one woman can give to another - the girt of life. if she happens to be motivated by money, then all power to her. she is choosing to give life and choosing to better the lives of herself and her family.

Now, go shave shave your armpits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am one of those &#8220;exploitive&#8221; Western women going to India this year to have a surrogate carry my child for me.</p>
<p>It would augur the writer to research the feelings and attitudes of surrogate mothers in both the West, and developing countries before lamblasting  what is a well-researched and considered decision &#8211; by the surrogates and the intended parents &#8211; entering into a surrogacy arrangement.</p>
<p>The person writing the &#8220;feminist&#8221; viewpoint expressed here is the oppressor, not me. We all want to do this. The writer has made an incredibly condescending judgement about surrogates and their motives for being surrogate mothers. don&#8217;t assume for one moment that surrogates are forced into making their decision to be surrogates. </p>
<p>I can&#8217;t think of a more beautiful gift of empowerment one woman can give to another &#8211; the girt of life. if she happens to be motivated by money, then all power to her. she is choosing to give life and choosing to better the lives of herself and her family.</p>
<p>Now, go shave shave your armpits.</p>
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		<title>By: Cara</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184725</link>
		<dc:creator>Cara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 15:19:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184725</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;If women choose to become prostitutes, we’re supposed to be supportive of their choice and make sure it’s safe and legal and bla bla bla, right?

If women choose to be surrogates, we’re supposed to be shocked and horrified at the exploitation.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

But as a general rule, those of us who support making prostitution safe and legal (raises hand) don&#039;t act supportive of Johns.  It&#039;s an important distinction, even if not an easy one.  I support the right of women to sell sex and to do so in the safest possible circumstances -- even if I don&#039;t particularly like it.  I don&#039;t support the right of men to buy sex and in fact think that those who do are assholes.  As a practical matter, you can&#039;t support prostitutes without also supporting the Johns, but I think that it&#039;s a legitimate area of conflict.

Now I&#039;m not saying that men who buy sex and people who pay surrogate mothers are a perfect comparison by any means, but I&#039;m working with the example given here.  My point is simply that you can support the rights and best possible conditions for an oppressed person while still having very negative feeling towards the oppressor.  In fact, unlike in this case, this statement would generally be considered obvious.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>If women choose to become prostitutes, we’re supposed to be supportive of their choice and make sure it’s safe and legal and bla bla bla, right?</p>
<p>If women choose to be surrogates, we’re supposed to be shocked and horrified at the exploitation.</p></blockquote>
<p>But as a general rule, those of us who support making prostitution safe and legal (raises hand) don&#8217;t act supportive of Johns.  It&#8217;s an important distinction, even if not an easy one.  I support the right of women to sell sex and to do so in the safest possible circumstances &#8212; even if I don&#8217;t particularly like it.  I don&#8217;t support the right of men to buy sex and in fact think that those who do are assholes.  As a practical matter, you can&#8217;t support prostitutes without also supporting the Johns, but I think that it&#8217;s a legitimate area of conflict.</p>
<p>Now I&#8217;m not saying that men who buy sex and people who pay surrogate mothers are a perfect comparison by any means, but I&#8217;m working with the example given here.  My point is simply that you can support the rights and best possible conditions for an oppressed person while still having very negative feeling towards the oppressor.  In fact, unlike in this case, this statement would generally be considered obvious.</p>
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		<title>By: Bill</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184388</link>
		<dc:creator>Bill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 06:13:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184388</guid>
		<description>What about a gay couple and a surrogate? Is there an acceptable way for a gay couple to work this out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What about a gay couple and a surrogate? Is there an acceptable way for a gay couple to work this out?</p>
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		<title>By: SarahMC</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184298</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 01:09:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184298</guid>
		<description>Renee, I think all of your posts so far have been AWESOME.  Your writing is so fierce; I feel like pumping my fists as I read.
I wonder why so may folks who pick up on the moral judgement assume that it&#039;s the surrogate mothers who are being judged, as it&#039;s pretty much the exact opposite.  We feminists (most of us) who have problems with prostitution don&#039;t have an issue with the prostitutes, but with those who exploit them/use them.  The same dynamic is at work here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Renee, I think all of your posts so far have been AWESOME.  Your writing is so fierce; I feel like pumping my fists as I read.<br />
I wonder why so may folks who pick up on the moral judgement assume that it&#8217;s the surrogate mothers who are being judged, as it&#8217;s pretty much the exact opposite.  We feminists (most of us) who have problems with prostitution don&#8217;t have an issue with the prostitutes, but with those who exploit them/use them.  The same dynamic is at work here.</p>
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		<title>By: DaisyDeadhead</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184255</link>
		<dc:creator>DaisyDeadhead</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:37:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184255</guid>
		<description>Renee, not sure what I think about all of this yet, since my opinions have shifted just since reading this thread.  (PS:  this means you are doing a GREAT JOB!)  

I used to be categorically against surrogacy, yet I have known one intelligent young woman who chose this willingly and after much thought.   

Thanks for bringing up a difficult, hairy-ass subject.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Renee, not sure what I think about all of this yet, since my opinions have shifted just since reading this thread.  (PS:  this means you are doing a GREAT JOB!)  </p>
<p>I used to be categorically against surrogacy, yet I have known one intelligent young woman who chose this willingly and after much thought.   </p>
<p>Thanks for bringing up a difficult, hairy-ass subject.</p>
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		<title>By: octogalore</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184251</link>
		<dc:creator>octogalore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 21:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184251</guid>
		<description>DS:

&lt;blockquote&gt; Very few women are placing a child for adoption because they are in a secure situation and they just don’t want a child. Most are women in a bad situation financially or otherwise and they would keep the child if they could find a way to do it. Women in a secure situation are likely to keep the child or have an abortion. There aren’t a lot of Junos out there. Most babies have some type of fetal drug or alcohol exposure , not the hallmark of women that have economic freedom.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

I think the important thing here is the children.  If they wind up in the orphanage because they are wanted but cannot be kept, that is tragic.  But the adoptive parents didn&#039;t cause that situation.  The unadopted child will not somehow be reclaimed by the parents, in the grand majority of cases.  Your guilt about adopting will not solve the underlying problem, and if you did not adopt, it would not mean that those children&#039;s lives would be better and would most likely mean the opposite.

My sisters were adopted from Korea.  We will never know what the situation was and of course it is likely that poverty had a lot to do with it.  We do know that at least one of them dealt with substantial abuse and malnourishment prior to the adoption and the other was abandoned at one year old.  I am not sure what declining to adopt would have done for them, or for their birth parents.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DS:</p>
<blockquote><p> Very few women are placing a child for adoption because they are in a secure situation and they just don’t want a child. Most are women in a bad situation financially or otherwise and they would keep the child if they could find a way to do it. Women in a secure situation are likely to keep the child or have an abortion. There aren’t a lot of Junos out there. Most babies have some type of fetal drug or alcohol exposure , not the hallmark of women that have economic freedom.</p></blockquote>
<p>I think the important thing here is the children.  If they wind up in the orphanage because they are wanted but cannot be kept, that is tragic.  But the adoptive parents didn&#8217;t cause that situation.  The unadopted child will not somehow be reclaimed by the parents, in the grand majority of cases.  Your guilt about adopting will not solve the underlying problem, and if you did not adopt, it would not mean that those children&#8217;s lives would be better and would most likely mean the opposite.</p>
<p>My sisters were adopted from Korea.  We will never know what the situation was and of course it is likely that poverty had a lot to do with it.  We do know that at least one of them dealt with substantial abuse and malnourishment prior to the adoption and the other was abandoned at one year old.  I am not sure what declining to adopt would have done for them, or for their birth parents.</p>
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		<title>By: Renee</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184224</link>
		<dc:creator>Renee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:04:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184224</guid>
		<description>&lt;em&gt;I am really picking up a poor-dears-who-need-saving note from this. &lt;/em&gt;

Actually what you should be picking up is how neo-colonialism impacts women and that capitalism necessarily privileges some and exploits others.  This is more about the system of exchange than anything else.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><em>I am really picking up a poor-dears-who-need-saving note from this. </em></p>
<p>Actually what you should be picking up is how neo-colonialism impacts women and that capitalism necessarily privileges some and exploits others.  This is more about the system of exchange than anything else.</p>
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		<title>By: purpleshoes</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184215</link>
		<dc:creator>purpleshoes</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 19:43:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/25/surrogate-exploitation/#comment-184215</guid>
		<description>I am pretty taken aback by the tone of this entry. I am concerned about the conditions under which third-world women work, in all work, especially sexual and reproductive work; at the same time, I am not comfortable with taking the step of labeling all such women &quot;exploited&quot;, at least where that term is a moral judgment instead of a simple economic descriptor. These women are taking an immense and dangerous step to procure better lives for themselves and for their own children; while I certainly agree that the women who benefit from their services shouldn&#039;t consider themselves &lt;i&gt;entitled&lt;/i&gt; to reap those benefits for low low prices, I am really picking up a poor-dears-who-need-saving note from this. 

I will acknowledge that is ironic that you can now put your sweatshop-made baby clothes on a &lt;i&gt;sweatshop-made baby&lt;/i&gt;. But I will also note that there is not a one of us who is not guilty of benefiting from the exploitation of foreign workers - most of us thousands and thousands of times over throughout our lives. It&#039;s interesting to me that we&#039;re targeting an interchange between sufferers of a disease only women get, and women who have found a way to gamble their health to &lt;i&gt;escape&lt;/i&gt; the conditions that surround the people who make &lt;i&gt;everything else around you as you type this&lt;/i&gt;. Unless you have found a fair-trade source of paperclips and computer parts, in which case, link please.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am pretty taken aback by the tone of this entry. I am concerned about the conditions under which third-world women work, in all work, especially sexual and reproductive work; at the same time, I am not comfortable with taking the step of labeling all such women &#8220;exploited&#8221;, at least where that term is a moral judgment instead of a simple economic descriptor. These women are taking an immense and dangerous step to procure better lives for themselves and for their own children; while I certainly agree that the women who benefit from their services shouldn&#8217;t consider themselves <i>entitled</i> to reap those benefits for low low prices, I am really picking up a poor-dears-who-need-saving note from this. </p>
<p>I will acknowledge that is ironic that you can now put your sweatshop-made baby clothes on a <i>sweatshop-made baby</i>. But I will also note that there is not a one of us who is not guilty of benefiting from the exploitation of foreign workers &#8211; most of us thousands and thousands of times over throughout our lives. It&#8217;s interesting to me that we&#8217;re targeting an interchange between sufferers of a disease only women get, and women who have found a way to gamble their health to <i>escape</i> the conditions that surround the people who make <i>everything else around you as you type this</i>. Unless you have found a fair-trade source of paperclips and computer parts, in which case, link please.</p>
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