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	<title>Comments on: The Ivory Ceiling: How Academia Keeps Women Out</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
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		<title>By: Feministe The Ivory Ceiling How Academia Keeps Women Out &#124; Outdoor Ceiling Fans</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-243493</link>
		<dc:creator>Feministe The Ivory Ceiling How Academia Keeps Women Out &#124; Outdoor Ceiling Fans</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 31 May 2009 06:59:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-243493</guid>
		<description>[...] Feministe The Ivory Ceiling How Academia Keeps Women Out   Posted by root 30 minutes ago (http://www.feministe.us)        Please do leave a comment if your experience in academia differs from mine of course that grad students are notoriously poor and have no guarantee of employment when they finish powered by wordpress mandigo theme by tom        Discuss&#160;  &#124;&#160; Bury &#124;&#160;    News &#124; Feministe The Ivory Ceiling How Academia Keeps Women Out [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Feministe The Ivory Ceiling How Academia Keeps Women Out   Posted by root 30 minutes ago (<a href="http://www.feministe.us" rel="nofollow">http://www.feministe.us</a>)        Please do leave a comment if your experience in academia differs from mine of course that grad students are notoriously poor and have no guarantee of employment when they finish powered by wordpress mandigo theme by tom        Discuss&nbsp;  |&nbsp; Bury |&nbsp;    News | Feministe The Ivory Ceiling How Academia Keeps Women Out [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Obama &#38; Gov. Palin: Sexism and Racism &#171; Pizza Diavola</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-200707</link>
		<dc:creator>Obama &#38; Gov. Palin: Sexism and Racism &#171; Pizza Diavola</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 05 Sep 2008 01:31:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-200707</guid>
		<description>[...] a place where it&#8217;s not &#8220;unusual&#8221; for a few women to participate. But I guess that the academy is totally post-feminist and qualified women and men are tenured at the same [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a place where it&#8217;s not &#8220;unusual&#8221; for a few women to participate. But I guess that the academy is totally post-feminist and qualified women and men are tenured at the same [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Greenspun and Feministe talk in different directions about the Ivory Ceiling &#171; The Eclectic Hedonist</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-192167</link>
		<dc:creator>Greenspun and Feministe talk in different directions about the Ivory Ceiling &#171; The Eclectic Hedonist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 25 Jul 2008 03:53:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-192167</guid>
		<description>[...] the value that is placed on science in America is echoed in a pair of recent Feministe articles, The Ivory Ceiling and The Ivory Ceiling part [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] the value that is placed on science in America is echoed in a pair of recent Feministe articles, The Ivory Ceiling and The Ivory Ceiling part [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Feministe Posts &#171; The Girl Detective</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-190079</link>
		<dc:creator>Feministe Posts &#171; The Girl Detective</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 18 Jul 2008 05:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-190079</guid>
		<description>[...] The Ivory Ceiling: How Academia Keeps Women Out (Part 1) The Ivory Ceiling: How Academia Keeps Women Out (Part 2) A brief addendum (to my academia posts) Space: The Funnest Frontier! (my thoughts on the Mars rovers and WALL-E) This is rich. (some McCain-related (and unfortunately innacurate) humor) This Is What Anti-Semitism Looks Like (or &#8220;How to Get 120 Comments On Your Blog Post&#8221;) On Being Jewish and White Literature: Not Enlightened Yet (which attracted several MRA trolls - interesting&#8230;) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Ivory Ceiling: How Academia Keeps Women Out (Part 1) The Ivory Ceiling: How Academia Keeps Women Out (Part 2) A brief addendum (to my academia posts) Space: The Funnest Frontier! (my thoughts on the Mars rovers and WALL-E) This is rich. (some McCain-related (and unfortunately innacurate) humor) This Is What Anti-Semitism Looks Like (or &#8220;How to Get 120 Comments On Your Blog Post&#8221;) On Being Jewish and White Literature: Not Enlightened Yet (which attracted several MRA trolls &#8211; interesting&#8230;) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Webz of Knowledge &#171; Beyond Assumptions</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-187300</link>
		<dc:creator>Webz of Knowledge &#171; Beyond Assumptions</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 02:09:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-187300</guid>
		<description>[...] The Ivory Ceiling: How Academia Keeps Women out [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] The Ivory Ceiling: How Academia Keeps Women out [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. MCR</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-187008</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. MCR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 18:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-187008</guid>
		<description>Great post, and what a rich group of responses.  Thanks for all this.  I just blogged about the same thing, but with a bit of hope from where I sit.  Please check it out at let me know what you think:  http://professorandparent.blogspot.com/2008/07/inequity-perception-and-hope-for-women.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post, and what a rich group of responses.  Thanks for all this.  I just blogged about the same thing, but with a bit of hope from where I sit.  Please check it out at let me know what you think:  <a href="http://professorandparent.blogspot.com/2008/07/inequity-perception-and-hope-for-women.htm" rel="nofollow">http://professorandparent.blogspot.com/2008/07/inequity-perception-and-hope-for-women.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Joaquin Stick</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-186308</link>
		<dc:creator>Joaquin Stick</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 19:18:40 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Wow, my little ostensibly crappy little public liberal-arts college in the deepest sticks of upstate New York is either suddenly a hotbed of progressive policy, or there&#039;s a bit of self-selection going on in the way this narrative is being described.

Let me preface this with a clear statement -- in no way do I wish to deny that sexist, racist, and classist (to say nothing of the big, ugly open secret in academe, ageism) people and policies are plentiful in academe -- but if my department, hardly a historical bastion of enlightened personnel interactions, can have women in nine of seventeen tenure lines, and if my college can have pre-tenure leave programs devoted exclusively to women and underrepresented minorities, and if my college can have a family leave policy that not only gives a full semester of leave but also a subsequent semester of teaching reassignment, then it strikes me that the real problem is not with &quot;academe&quot; but perhaps with elite academic institutions, such as the University of Michigan. Let&#039;s face it, almost everybody under the rank of endowed chair full prof is getting the shaft at those places, including some individuals with privilege aplenty. For all the rhetoric of egalitarianism and empowerment issuing forth from scholars at the most elite universities in the U.S., the personal politics of the departments to which these scholars belong is not that different from the 1950s in terms of gatekeeping. I&#039;ve always been dismayed at the ways in which many salon Marxists of research-university English departments can behave like the very targets they savage in their writing when it comes time to, say, fund adjunct pay at subsistence wages.

One answer that springs immediately to mind for me is that if you go visit a department at a graduate program that only has 10% female faculty and you find that this is a problem for you, don&#039;t go there and make sure that the admissions people know that this is why you chose not to attend said school, but I recognize that this is also overly reductive. Don&#039;t fall prey, however, to the &lt;em&gt;Chronicle of Higher Ed&lt;/em&gt; worldview when discussing academia. There are other schools than Brown, Berkeley, and Michigan (or Wellesley, Denison, and Sewanee, for that matter...).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, my little ostensibly crappy little public liberal-arts college in the deepest sticks of upstate New York is either suddenly a hotbed of progressive policy, or there&#8217;s a bit of self-selection going on in the way this narrative is being described.</p>
<p>Let me preface this with a clear statement &#8212; in no way do I wish to deny that sexist, racist, and classist (to say nothing of the big, ugly open secret in academe, ageism) people and policies are plentiful in academe &#8212; but if my department, hardly a historical bastion of enlightened personnel interactions, can have women in nine of seventeen tenure lines, and if my college can have pre-tenure leave programs devoted exclusively to women and underrepresented minorities, and if my college can have a family leave policy that not only gives a full semester of leave but also a subsequent semester of teaching reassignment, then it strikes me that the real problem is not with &#8220;academe&#8221; but perhaps with elite academic institutions, such as the University of Michigan. Let&#8217;s face it, almost everybody under the rank of endowed chair full prof is getting the shaft at those places, including some individuals with privilege aplenty. For all the rhetoric of egalitarianism and empowerment issuing forth from scholars at the most elite universities in the U.S., the personal politics of the departments to which these scholars belong is not that different from the 1950s in terms of gatekeeping. I&#8217;ve always been dismayed at the ways in which many salon Marxists of research-university English departments can behave like the very targets they savage in their writing when it comes time to, say, fund adjunct pay at subsistence wages.</p>
<p>One answer that springs immediately to mind for me is that if you go visit a department at a graduate program that only has 10% female faculty and you find that this is a problem for you, don&#8217;t go there and make sure that the admissions people know that this is why you chose not to attend said school, but I recognize that this is also overly reductive. Don&#8217;t fall prey, however, to the <em>Chronicle of Higher Ed</em> worldview when discussing academia. There are other schools than Brown, Berkeley, and Michigan (or Wellesley, Denison, and Sewanee, for that matter&#8230;).</p>
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		<title>By: Mercurial Georgia</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-186111</link>
		<dc:creator>Mercurial Georgia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 23:05:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>This is horrible...and why I regret not going to a community college instead...and why I didn&#039;t chose to take uni English anything, but I will take one course next year to boost my mark.

The biological clock ticking (along with the WTF sexuality was I) was a major stress factor in my life that had me panicking for the past few years over What To Do, before I decide to &#039;See What Happens Now&#039;.  I realise I have more CHOICES in this GLBT marriage legal world.  It&#039;s like on Queer As Folk, a baby can have two mommies AND two daddies, therefore the financial and time cost of childrearing shall be shared more!  I wouldn&#039;t have to worry about Old Eggs if another mother is the one who contributes the egg while I carry.  (I remember a surrogate story about a mother who carried her grandson because her daughter couldn&#039;t)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is horrible&#8230;and why I regret not going to a community college instead&#8230;and why I didn&#8217;t chose to take uni English anything, but I will take one course next year to boost my mark.</p>
<p>The biological clock ticking (along with the WTF sexuality was I) was a major stress factor in my life that had me panicking for the past few years over What To Do, before I decide to &#8216;See What Happens Now&#8217;.  I realise I have more CHOICES in this GLBT marriage legal world.  It&#8217;s like on Queer As Folk, a baby can have two mommies AND two daddies, therefore the financial and time cost of childrearing shall be shared more!  I wouldn&#8217;t have to worry about Old Eggs if another mother is the one who contributes the egg while I carry.  (I remember a surrogate story about a mother who carried her grandson because her daughter couldn&#8217;t)</p>
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		<title>By: NFAH</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-185920</link>
		<dc:creator>NFAH</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 13:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-185920</guid>
		<description>There are definitely problems for women in Academia and the system is definitely set up to favor people who are willing to work all of the time, and thus in turn not have kids, hobbies, or other lives.  However, the fact that it is like this means that there is still competition for jobs and there are always going to be people working longer, working harder, working more, whether male or female.  In my experience, the difference arises in that men are much more willing to make the trade-off while women are more likely to say &quot;screw this, I want a family, a life, a hobby&quot; etc.  Of the women I know who started in academia, one has tenure, two were denied tenure (and kids/family certainly played a role in one of those two cases) but the vast majority actually quit before going up for tenure.   I&#039;m pre-tenure and childless by choice and so I have a decent chance of making it, although I&#039;m about to abandon my most time-consuming hobby in order to stay on top of the ever-more-demanding day job.  There are obviously things about this life that must be appealing, or so many people would not want to do it and be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do it.  For me it definitely comes down to the students, they make the pain worthwhile.  But even then I sometimes wonder how long I will last, and at what point I will decide that the 24/7 nature of my email in box, backlog of papers to review, backlog of papers to write and books to finish, are not worth it.  The thing that kills me is the constant stress of never being able to rest and know that I should  be resting and not working -- because there is always something I should be doing or should have done.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are definitely problems for women in Academia and the system is definitely set up to favor people who are willing to work all of the time, and thus in turn not have kids, hobbies, or other lives.  However, the fact that it is like this means that there is still competition for jobs and there are always going to be people working longer, working harder, working more, whether male or female.  In my experience, the difference arises in that men are much more willing to make the trade-off while women are more likely to say &#8220;screw this, I want a family, a life, a hobby&#8221; etc.  Of the women I know who started in academia, one has tenure, two were denied tenure (and kids/family certainly played a role in one of those two cases) but the vast majority actually quit before going up for tenure.   I&#8217;m pre-tenure and childless by choice and so I have a decent chance of making it, although I&#8217;m about to abandon my most time-consuming hobby in order to stay on top of the ever-more-demanding day job.  There are obviously things about this life that must be appealing, or so many people would not want to do it and be willing to make the sacrifices necessary to do it.  For me it definitely comes down to the students, they make the pain worthwhile.  But even then I sometimes wonder how long I will last, and at what point I will decide that the 24/7 nature of my email in box, backlog of papers to review, backlog of papers to write and books to finish, are not worth it.  The thing that kills me is the constant stress of never being able to rest and know that I should  be resting and not working &#8212; because there is always something I should be doing or should have done.</p>
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		<title>By: dananddanica</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-185902</link>
		<dc:creator>dananddanica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 09:50:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/06/30/the-ivory-ceiling-how-academia-keeps-women-out/#comment-185902</guid>
		<description>activist,
  Then the system should change. I do not think women would outperform men if the system was changed as I dont believe women are superior to men, as groups they are equal. It does seem unfair that all pressure is put in place at precisely the wrong time for women wanting to have children but if you have any further ideas as to why things are they way they are now or how you would change things I&#039;d love to hear them. Perhaps that would change the numbers for those getting their PhD&#039;s. 

Also if you have any ideas on how to change these same institutions so that the percentage of male graduates vs female graduates comes closer to parity at the undergraduate or graduate levels I&#039;m all ears as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>activist,<br />
  Then the system should change. I do not think women would outperform men if the system was changed as I dont believe women are superior to men, as groups they are equal. It does seem unfair that all pressure is put in place at precisely the wrong time for women wanting to have children but if you have any further ideas as to why things are they way they are now or how you would change things I&#8217;d love to hear them. Perhaps that would change the numbers for those getting their PhD&#8217;s. </p>
<p>Also if you have any ideas on how to change these same institutions so that the percentage of male graduates vs female graduates comes closer to parity at the undergraduate or graduate levels I&#8217;m all ears as well.</p>
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