Comments on: Stealth, Marginalized Communities, and the F word

By: A Continuing Conversation on Feminism: Do You Know Who You’re Fighting For? at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture

Mon, 14 Jul 2008 15:13:07 +0000

[...] means I am the ones taking in the lumps and hostility, watching people degender us because it is too inconvenient to deal with our race and class issues, trying to force myself to write civil responses to things even when I feel like screaming, then so [...]

By: The Women’s Desk « Tanglad

The Women’s Desk « Tanglad — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:13:48 +0000

[...] been thinking about the women’s desk again lately, because of ongoing discussions such as this within the feminist blogoshphere about what feminism as a label means, of why feminism should [...]

By: camille paglia

camille paglia — Mon, 07 Jul 2008 00:36:49 +0000

[...] Katie Roiphe, Cathy Young, camille Paglia, and their ilk. So, for example, ???As a feminist, …http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/01/stealth-marginalized-communities-and-the-f-word/The war on fathers WorldNet Daily”Father knows best.” How do those three words make you feel? Turn [...]

By: octogalore

octogalore — Sat, 05 Jul 2008 03:37:15 +0000

Thanks, Emily. I like your Beauty Myth post BTW.

By: Emily

Emily — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 18:20:45 +0000

Octogalore – I do understand your point. Cara described my point precisely. I was thinking more in terms of a different analogy, which has also come up in this discussion which, vis feminism specifically, behaves in a way that leads other people to claim that she is not what she calls herself – i.e. woman, feminist, and many of the other labels you mentioned for that matter.

I don’t think we are ultimately disagreeing or that your ultimate point is lost. I didn’t directly address the issue of self identification because other people, yourself included, have pretty much said here and I’ve recently addressed the exact same question in my own writing.

By: Cara

Cara — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 14:17:56 +0000

Oh okay. Got it.

By: octogalore

octogalore — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 05:48:41 +0000

Cara – right, agree, but my point was which labels we consider OURSELVES to belong to. eg, whether we’d still say we are a teacher because of others with whom we share little in common. So if she was indeed discussing how other people view transwomen, it wasn’t an appropriate analogy. An appropriate analogy would be whether someone would consider herself a woman (whether trans or cis) if another woman (whether trans or cis) behaves in a way that woman #1 doesn’t want to be associated with. And the answer, I believe, would be yes. And just in case it isn’t all the time, is why I put “most of the time.” Clear?

By: Cara

Cara — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 02:26:04 +0000

I’m not sure, actually, that a transwoman WOULD question her identity as a woman. So I’m not sure what you mean by that.

I think that Emily was saying that some (cis) FEMINISTS question transwomen’s identity as women. And if that is what she was saying, she’s right; some unfortunately do.

And no problem, Ashley.

By: try pie, try. « feminism + fandom = attitude problem

try pie, try. « feminism + fandom = attitude problem — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:56:50 +0000

[...] pie, try. 03Jul08 Any geek who reads Feministe knows that Megan McArdle’s sorta full of shit this week, but this really takes the cake, and apparently I’m the only person out in the blogosphere [...]

By: octogalore

octogalore — Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:39:52 +0000

Emily — that’s why I said “most of the time.” I am hoping the larger point wasn’t entirely lost because of a quibble that actually was addressed in the section you quoted.

I’m not sure, actually, that a transwoman WOULD question her identity as a woman. So I’m not sure what you mean by that. It’s ignorant others who would. Just like many feminists are told by others (including feminists) they aren’t really feminists. But what I was addressing is the way one thinks of and identifies oneself.