Author: The Girl Detective has written 9 posts for this blog.

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23 Responses

  1. 1
    Melissa 7.5.2008 at 2:09 pm |

    Great post about how women’s work is devalued even in the hard sciences. As an aside, my mother in law was actually one of the programmers on the original Mars Rovers, so I guess there were a few women working on it when it was still “interesting”.

    About Wall-E, I had a similar disagreement with my husband on the way out. My point, though, was that it didn’t make sense for the computers running the ship to give people more calories than they strictly needed to survive. Wouldn’t they be interested in conserving resources instead? Also, it wasn’t much of a consumerist society at that point. People were all wearing the exact same outfit and seemed to have no relationship with their bodies at all. I would have found it more believable and consistent with the overall picture if they also didn’t care about food. For that reason, I found the fat thing to be gratuitous. I think the filmmakers thought fat==lazy and so they made these people fat even though it wasn’t a necessary part of the story at all.

    Also, did anyone else notice that almost everyone was white? What was up with that?

  2. 2
    Jay 7.5.2008 at 2:45 pm |

    >>How can we privilege Pixar’s need to make their movie a certain way over actual people’s wellbeing?<<

    We can’t. Pixar can because they don’t give a shit about fat people.

    Yours is the first comment I’ve seen that mentions this and I’m glad you did. I thought I wanted to see the movie and now I’m not sure; if I do go, I appreciate the warning. The last movie I saw in a theater was “Borat” (not my idea) and there was a trailer for that execrable Eddie Murphy film where he plays his own ridiculous, obese wife. I wanted to crawl under my seat.

    My daughter is already getting comments from her friends about my weight. I don’t need to take her to see another movie that will appear to justify that point of view.

  3. 3
    Kelsey Jarboe 7.5.2008 at 2:56 pm |

    I dunno, I think the point is that all of the people on the ship are put in a place of such privilege and boredom (they clearly don’t have to work), that there isn’t much to do BUT eat and talk. And the robots are programmed to be obedient, not to say “sorry pal, you’ve had enough”.

    I didn’t see it as problematic in the way I initially worried about after considering that it takes place in an isolated-for-700-years, labor-less society, not… like… real life where class actually exists.

  4. 4
    Toast 7.5.2008 at 3:33 pm |

    (sigh) OK, GD, I’m going to fucking vent. The goddamned fucking Viking Lander touched down on Mars when I was a Wee fucking Lad. Thirty something years later, we’re supposed to be excited about a robot-armed lander finding water? Excuse me while I yawn. It’s THIRTY YEARS LATER. We’re supposed to have a fucking COLONY on Mars by now, to say nothing of the Moon. Oh, and meanwhile, the goddamned Shuttle is being retired, we’ve got no space plane to replace it, and the newest launch platform that NASA has come up with is yet another big fucking stick with a payload on the top.

    Yeah, No, Sorry. NOT fucking happy with the goddamned progress of our friggin’ Space Program. Thank you very much.

  5. 5
    Toast 7.5.2008 at 3:34 pm |

    Not to be bitter or angry or all that……

  6. 6
    denelian 7.5.2008 at 5:09 pm |

    *cheers toast*

    exACTly

  7. 7
    Mnemosyne 7.5.2008 at 6:16 pm |

    Even though microgravity is presented as the cause of the weakness, the message behind it isn’t hard to miss: the inhabitants of the ship spend all their time sucking food out of cups, obeying advertisements (”Try Blue – it’s the new Red!”), and talking to each other on screens in front of their faces instead of turning their heads.

    There’s another interpretation that a lot of people seem to be overlooking because we’ve been so inured to the “fat=lazy” trope in our popular culture: they’ve been infantilized by the robots. They spend their days being carted around in carriages, drinking out of bottles, wearing onesies, and babbling to themselves. They’re gigantic babies who have to learn to do things for themselves and make the robots work for them instead of letting the robots do everything.

    They’re giant infants who literally have to learn how to take their first steps.

  8. 8
    Kelsey Jarboe 7.5.2008 at 6:17 pm |

    I’m split on the space thing, because like Toast, I’m impatient and want more space progress and yet… Faced with how much the government spends on space research and how little it spends on, like, it’s citizens… sometimes I wonder if a funds allocation adjustment might need to take place?

    Or maybe we should just stop being at war so that space and people can both get good funding. Harumph.

  9. 9
    shah8 7.5.2008 at 6:26 pm |

    I find the focus on fat people in the commentary about the movie profoundly wierd. I think that it fits within the narrative of the movie’s portrayal of the society.

    Maybe I’ve read too much advant garde sci-fi or something, but I find that people who wanted to complain about fat people are actually more nervous about seeing a society in which fat people are the *norm* and shuddering about *that* rather than any deep concern for fat people.

    I mean, this is sci-fi, and from the sound of it (I have not seen it), an unapologetic sci-fi movie, and it sounds like it follows the sensibilities of Octavia Butler just as much as Kubrick, and she was a big one for “body-sense” discomfort. I’d have to see it to be sure, but I’ll just wait for the video. $10 for a movie is just too much.

  10. 10
    bittergradstudent 7.5.2008 at 7:44 pm |

    Science inevitably funds itself in the long term. Microcomputers with silicon transistors were developed so that it would be possible to fit a computer on the Apollo capsule. You never know when one discovery in one niche is going to affect other discoveries elsewhere.

  11. 11
    Frumious B 7.5.2008 at 8:07 pm |

    I hate to harsh on the idea of an all woman team, but it’s actually well documented that clusters of women form and dissipate regularly in science. I heard this from Millie Dresselhaus herself (look up her work yourself, what, I have to do everything for you?) while bragging about some of the all woman lab groups in my graduate alma mater. While cool, this particular team does not represent some pinnacle of diversity at JPL. When all-woman teams cease to be remarkable, that’s when we’ll have reached a pinnacle of diversity.

  12. 12
    Cooper 7.5.2008 at 10:18 pm |

    I agree with Frumious on this one. The all women team is a little depressing in that, well, it is news. I can certainly see the tone of the article here grating on people, but it seems to me the exciting thing might just be in the last block:

    “Even in the earliest weeks of the mission, young Ph.D.’s and even graduate students were being thrust into the tactical science positions so that their more senior advisors could spend a little less of their time worrying about day-to-day operations and a little more time analyzing the data being returned to Earth. The four years of operations to date have seen many of these students grow up, win their degrees, find permanent positions, and get replaced by fresh faces.”

    The implication seems to be that there are simply MORE women in the new crop of post-docs. Getting experience on a high profile operations team is the track to bigger and better things.

  13. 13
    Annette 7.5.2008 at 11:16 pm |

    “Also, did anyone else notice that almost everyone was white? What was up with that?”

    Well aside from living entirely indoors and adapting to how much UV light the inside of the ship receives, 700 years worth of humans living in an enclosed space would probably melt them all into one race of medium-everything.

    Skin might gradually lighten over many generations living indoors, but as to ethnicity, you got me.

  14. 15
    Bether 7.6.2008 at 2:44 am |

    I’m with Mnemosyne on this one. Yeah, there are problems with the “fat=lazy” premise. But what I saw in Wall*E was that the humans had been infantalized: they’d stopped living adult lives. They were completely helpless; even proportioned more like infants than adult humans. That was what I found horrifying (as I think they intended): adult humans completely incapable of taking care of themselves because they had never been allowed to physically mature past infancy. The implication, with the shots of babies in a nursery, is that this is how all humans live all the time in the film — they’re not given a chance to walk or move, and they’ve never taken those first steps.

  15. 16
    Bob 7.6.2008 at 9:48 am |

    I know I’m in a precarious position here, since a) I don’t have insider knowledge of planetary science careers, and b) the article itself was written by a woman. I’m sure the situation she’s describing is true… but is it true as she’s describing it?

    So, why don’t you find out? Why don’t you talk to the author and perhaps some of the women who work on the project? Why don’t you do a little research on the career path in the sciences to see whether such grunt work is typical regardless of gender? Ironic, given that this post is from someone who writes under the pseudonym “The Girl Detective”. Being a blogger is not a license to be ignorant.

  16. 17
    Mandolin 7.6.2008 at 10:26 am |

    “even proportioned more like infants than adult humans. ”

    Because obese people? Aren’t proportioned like adults.

  17. 18
    Mandolin 7.6.2008 at 10:28 am |

    Also, if we’re to accept that the movie is using visual iconography to make its message – which seems likely – then if it intended to show “infantalized” and instead triggered cultural associations about “fat=lazy,” then that’s completley their failure. Like the people who made the monkey-obama t-shirt and claim not to have understood its racist implications, Pixar here does not escape through ignorance or good intention the guilt of mobilizing a fatphobic trope.

  18. 19
    Midnight Louise 7.6.2008 at 11:07 am |

    This reminds me of one of the pioneering female astronomers, Annie Jump Cannon, who got her start as a computer at the turn of the twentieth century. Doing the many, many computations that are all automated now had to be done by hand at that time, and as it was considered menial work, women were allowed to do it. It gave Cannon a keen understanding of stellar data, which was the underpinning of her work in stellar taxonomy. If the work these women are doing today is undervalued by their colleagues, then it’s they who’ll be the fools for it.

    It also reminds me of an idea I had the other day — women are the most efficient means of human colonization of other planets. If an appropriate habitat could be constructed, Mars could be colonized by a single woman. Given the appropriate level of technology and training, a single woman with a number of frozen sperm vials could start her very own human family.

  19. 21
    Charon 7.6.2008 at 10:57 pm |

    Colony on Mars = bad idea.
    Colony on Moon = bad idea.
    Water on Mars = very cool.
    Water in Mercury’s exosphere (just discovered) = freaking amazing.

    It turns out not everything proposed in science fiction is a good idea. I know, weird.

    (A few reasons why we shouldn’t/can’t live on Mars: no oxygen, very little water, no soil (with organic matter), extreme temperatures, weaker sunlight, no atmosphere to protect from cosmic rays and solar wind, etc. Plus, why? Seriously. Ask yourself why there should be people living on Mars. We’d pay billions of dollars per person so they could… be bored? We could send many advanced robot probes to every planet and moon in our solar system for the cost of one person on Mars. And, well, pretty much fund all other astronomy research too.)

    I say this as an astronomer who’s struggling to get data from the Hubble telescope, which broke 4 years ago and still hasn’t been fixed, and was supposed to be decommissioned years before that but still doesn’t have a replacement. Hubble has lead to major advances in every field of astronomy, and we could put up a hundred new ones with the price of one Mars expedition. Let alone a freaking colony.

  20. 22
    charlotte 7.7.2008 at 6:55 pm |

    As someone who works in the aerospace industry and close to similar projects as the Rover or the (really really old!) Hubble, let me tell you that aerospace, as one of the most conservative industries “out there” is currently facing serious personnel issues–not only because it’s a largely male-dominated field, but also because, due to government funding cutbacks, senior (male) employees have been retained throughout the years while more junior (often female) employees were let go. This still puts most of the management functions, including hiring and task assigning etc. firmly in the hands of conservative men with a “linientreuer” military background, while a few women are mixed in as talking heads for PR purposes. So, your observation that, as soon as projects have passed acceptance and go into maintenance mode, they are shipped off to the “lesser workers” is right on the mark.

  21. 23

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