[Jill beat me to posting a link to this story while I was writing this post.]
After writing a post yesterday about the extremes of our rape culture, I found an important post by Ren that shows just how deep indeed this shit goes.
Kyle Payne’s blog describes him as follows:
Kyle is a social justice educator, writer, and activist. Much of his work is concerned with putting a stop to violence against women. For years Kyle has served as an advocate for survivors of sexual violence and other forms of abuse, in addition to promoting what he calls “a more just and life-affirming culture of sexuality” through activism and education. As a researcher, Kyle has studied the feminist anti-pornography movement and is particularly interested in men’s roles in confronting pornography and the rape culture. In addition to his pro-feminist work, he is involved with anti-racist, free speech, peace, and anti-globalization movements.
Did you get all of that? He’s concerned with putting a stop to violence against women. He is an advocate for survivors of sexual violence. And he’s interested in men’s roles in confronting rape culture. And he apparently works with survivors of sexual assault. But as one of those survivors, he sure as fuck isn’t an advocate for me.
While he was a Resident Adviser, Kyle Payne was arrested and charged with assaulting an unconscious woman. He has now pleaded guilty to attempted burglary and “invasion of privacy” — but according to court documents, his crime very clearly seems to have been a sexual assault.
In documents filed with the court, Payne agrees that “with an intent to arouse my sexual desire, I photographed and filmed Jane Doe and her breast without her consent.” A portion of the plea agreement stating that Payne was of sound mind when the incident took place in early 2007 was stricken from the document, leaving only the portion where Payne agrees that he is currently of sound mind.
At the time of the incident, Payne had been employed by Buena Vista University as a dormitory resident adviser. Police reports indicate that while attending to an intoxicated and unconscious female student, Payne reportedly assaulted and photographed her. The guilty plea entered Monday did not include assault charges. Tips received by police and campus security following the incident led to a 10-month investigation that resulted in Payne’s arrest in February.
Payne is now facing up to 5 years in jail an a maximum fine of $7,500. I won’t be holding my breath for jail time. Though, of course, one would think that such a strong advocate against sexual violence would support a jail sentence for himself and want to do time in the name of justice, right? Right? (Er, okay, maybe not.)
I highly doubt that I would have been Kyle Payne’s biggest fan anyway. There’s a lot of stuff on his blog that I disagree with or just find creepy. But I’ll be damned if I’m going to spend my days railing against the sexual violence committed by professional athletes and just ignore that which is committed by our “male feminist allies.” We’ve got a lot of good male allies/male feminists. This dude ain’t one of them. This guy is the enemy. And I in no way believe that the fact that he committed sexual violence while campaigning against it is an accident. It sounds to me an awful lot like design. Most likely, Payne was either setting up this anti-rape front so that he could be the guy that women trust — the most effective type of abuser — or did it alleviate his guilt about his sexual violence while not actually having to, you know, stop it.
Perhaps worst of all, Payne has kept on blogging like nothing has happened! He’s updated his blog three times since his plea on July 1st — including this entry, which contains praise for Andrea Dworkin, whose anti-rape work so touched his life. I guess that he still thinks that he’s on our side. He has apparently shut down comments and has failed to address the “situation.” Shocking.
There are hypocrites, and there are hypocrites, and there are hypocrites. Someone who campaigns against abortion after helping his girlfriend obtain one, or who has gay sex after campaigning against gay rights, or who does harmful things in the name of “family values” while visiting prostitutes, well they’re shitty, shameful people. But they’ve got nothing on a person who commits sexual assault while supposedly actively campaigning against it, and then thinks he can continue on like nothing happened. That, my friends, is a person who is not only shitty and shameful, but also dangerous.
There are a lot of women — many of them feminists — who due to past experience have difficulty trusting men. I’m one of them. And I’m not proud of it; in fact, I’ve worked for years to change it and would be much happier if it wasn’t so. I have always been skeptical of men who are rape crisis counselors, if they are going to be working with survivors who are women — if not for lack of trust, than for the comfort of those survivors who were almost certainly assaulted by men. This case certainly does reinforce that feeling.
I do however fully believe that men can be feminists. I’ve met many good ones. In fact, I believe that making men a part of the movement is a necessity. I don’t take Payne’s crime as a mark against all men. But I’d be lying if I said that it probably won’t in any way feed that often subconscious and distrustful voice in the back of my head. I can’t blame other women who feel similarly. And that means Kyle Payne is not only hurting women; he’s also hurting men. You’ll often hear the argument that rape culture hurts us all. Indeed, it’s an argument that I can see someone like Payne making. How true it is.
Belledame has info on how those in the area can attend Payne’s sentencing. Apparently, he has decided to have an open sentencing, and anyone who wants to speak can. In other words: if you can, go! Ren has links to more people who are writing about the case. They include Eleanor Trousers, who has been writing about the story since February, Jeff Fecke who writes about the case at Shakesville from the perspective of a (genuine) feminist ally, Purtek, Buried Alive, and Nine Deuce.
Oh, and Kyle? Please remove my fucking blog from your blogroll. Now.
Similar Posts:
- Trigger Warning: Insufferable Dingbat Ahoy by Jill April 14, 2010
- You know you’re kind of a jerk when you write a blog post basically mocking rape survivors. by Jill April 13, 2010
- Naming by Jill June 20, 2007
- Confronting Citizenship in Sexual Assault by Cara April 14, 2010
- While Palin was mayor, Wasilla billed rape victims for their rape kits by Jill September 8, 2008
[...] “Advocate” Turns Abuser : The Curvature on Sports Rape Culture Keeps On ThrivingFeministe » “Advocate” Turns Abuser on Sports Rape Culture Keeps On ThrivingBlackamazon on Men: Still Trying. Oh How They Try!shiva on [...]
I’m… completely baffled… how could someone who knows what he supposedly knows about rape and sexual violence against women… commit sexual violence? I just don’t understand it. I really honestly don’t understand, on an intellectual level, how this could happen. This guy is beyond run-of-the-mill hypocrite, he’s a fucking sociopath!
maybe he has a wide stance
I dont understand how an anti-rape “feminist” activist could do something like that.
Maybe Rachel is right. That guy is a sociopath.
There are hypocrites, and there are hypocrites, and there are hypocrites. Someone who campaigns against abortion after helping his girlfriend obtain one, or who has gay sex after campaigning against gay rights, or who does harmful things in the name of “family values” while visiting prostitutes, well they’re shitty, shameful people. But they’ve got nothing on a person who commits sexual assault while supposedly actively campaigning against it, and then thinks he can continue on like nothing happened. That, my friends, is a person who is not only shitty and shameful, but also dangerous.
Well said, Cara. Well said.
I’m leaning more and more toward that conclusion. Have you seen the guy’s vlog? Butter wouldn’t melt in his mouth. And he posted his latest entry -after- the guilty plea. And he’s still apparently trying to brazen this out by stonewalling.
and as someone pointed out at my place, Ted Bundy was a rape crisis counselor at one point in his career, too.
Cara- thanks for posting on this. I have the big list of blogs calling out Kyle Payne up.
I can’t believe the guy is still playing his little charade, like he hasn’t done anything wrong.
The idea of this guy advising rape victims makes my skin crawl.
Sends shivers up my spine, too, Ren.
I dont understand how an anti-rape “feminist” activist could do something like that.
Just like Catholic priests can buttfuck kids. It is the perfect position and provides ample opportunities for meeting women who are already powerless.
This is a great post, Cara. Thanks for helping spread the word about this guy.
As me to the crawling skin list. Is it bad that his seeming obsession with pornography (and how it harms, really!) would have probably made him suspect in my mind had I heard of him before this broke?
[...] this fellow will be Eleanor’s Trousers – she’s been on this since February Shakesville Cara at Feministe Purtek Buried Alive Nine Deuce And a full list can be found at Renegade [...]
I really honestly don’t understand, on an intellectual level, how this could happen. This guy is beyond run-of-the-mill hypocrite, he’s a fucking sociopath!
That’s exactly it. No, seriously.
I’m not a psychiatrist, but I have a lifetime of unwanted experience with “sociopaths”, so here’s my input for what it’s worth.
“Sociopath” is not a psychiatric term. What we mean by a sociopath – Hitler, Ted Bundy, a crazed stalker, Hannibal Lecther – really refers to one of several personality disorders – most frequently Narcissistic Personality Disorder and Antisocial Personality Disorder.
NPDs and APDs collectively form something like 2% of the population. That’s 6 million people. Most of whom are for sociological reasons white men. Who can easily pass for Nice Guys. They’re intelligent and they can see what jobs, what positions in the community, what address they need to have in order to pass.
They’re also good at creating their own fan clubs. They can seem deeply, sincerely passionate about a very progressive topic. But like Cara says, there will always be something vaguely creepy in some of what they say – if you’re sensitized to it by prior experience, you’ll pick up on the creep factor. If not, then no matter how smart or well-read you are, you’re in danger of assuming he didn’t mean it the way you thought he did and thinking he’s a wonderful, special guy.
That doublethink that allowed this guy to continue blogging like nothing happened – that sounds particularly like NPD, which is what my dad had. My dad actually pulled a few stunts like this (nothing criminal – that I know of – but close enough) and behaved precisely the same way when caught.
Wow. That’s scary. As in, truly terrifying, ‘who can you trust?’ scary.
The thing that gets me is that the assault happened while he was in college, at the same time that he was writing all these papers about radical feminism and male accountability for the rape culture.
And yeah, it’s really creepy that he continues to post on his blog like nothing ever happened.
Not that this shithead deserves excuses, but he’s probably not posting about this on his blog because he’s awaiting sentencing, and any decent lawyer would tell him to shut the hell up about it. He’d be a moron to write about it publicly.
That said, it is extremely creepy that he continues to write about his great anti-rape, anti-porn activism as if he is some sort of gift to feminism (I’m sure that’s what you meant in the first place, I just wanted to clarify that he’s probably not just ignoring this issue because it’s inconvenient — as others have pointed out, he’s a jerk but he’s no fool).
[...] Feministe » “Advocate” Turns Abuser “You’ll often hear the argument that rape culture hurts us all. Indeed, it’s an argument that I can see someone like Payne making. How true it is.” Yet another great post on that asshole of epic proportions, Kyle Payne. (tags: abuse rape hypocrisy dangerous feminism violence assholes) [...]
Yecchhh. Should not have look at his blog after reading about this and the linked news stories. The crime committed combined with the continuing rank hypocrisy really grates at the core of my being. Talk about chuzpah……
I’m not thinking chutzpah, I’m thinking total disconnect from his own motives. I’m suspicious about the whole idea of advocate. Does anybody else suspect “advocates” are empowering themselves, not women? My fellow men and I should take a damn hard look inside and think of better ways to advance what we believe is right, take a step back, and start off on the right path.
This is why we need a women only, dick free space.
Re: Kyle Payne – What the Shit?!…
by matttbastard
I can’t really wrap my head around uber-hypocritical faux-feminist Kyle Payne. Over the past 24+ hours I’ve been vacillating between rank disgust, random profanity, and coming to terms with the fact that way too many peopl…
Mercurial Georgia, some women have dicks (transwomen, some intersex women). Not wanting to derail, just saying.
In a society that has a sociopath as its president, maybe we live in a conducive climate for sociopaths to ease into positions of power. I don’t want to be paranoid all the time, but we should probably always consider people’s reasons for being in power positions, especially around vulnerable populations. Sad and cynical as it sounds, there is a part of me that always questions a little when I meet a self-avowed, staunch, male (especially straight male) feminist… like, what is really going on here?
Thanks for saying it Haley. I myself was going to point out that the “women only” and “dick free” are not necessarily the same thing.
word up, BetaCandy. my psychopathic abusive ex who raped me was a communist, anti-racist, and raised by a feminist. and uh. yeah fuck all that did for him. his blather about human rights and his disgust against personal and social abuses didn’t stop his stupid ass from raping me and many other women.
Jill: I’m sure, but you’d think the fucker would at least have the grace to pull the blog.
Oh, and, no, again: he vlogged on July 4, not about this, no, but: still talking.
BetaCandy: yep.
And I feel like I keep saying: look, saying this is -not- saying that the rest of the world isn’t capable of doing equally terrible shit, that we don’t all have it in us, the -potential.- It’s not what people like this -have- that separates them from other people; it’s what they -don’t-. “There’s a wee want there.”
but mostly, at the end of the day, By their fruits you will know them.
but yeah, there -are- some red flags. it’s not foolproof though. I do also think that sometimes, stuff like “dick=bad, estrogen=safe” actually makes it -harder- to identify predators, because honestly that’s not what it’s about. Which is a different proposition from saying “in general, kind of weary at minimum, suspicious at best of men who are all like Women First, Witness My Feminism.”
Biggest red flag for a colloquially defined sociopath (as per Martha Stout’s “Sociopath Next Door,” and I tend to agree with this): someone who fucks you over and then, or simultaneously, pulls the poor me pity me act. Particularly if they do it more than once. Three times’ the charm, at most.
Cara, any word on where Kyle was an advocate? I’d like to do what I can to make sure that center is in touch with anyone he counseled before they read about this in the freakin’ newspaper. My guess is that he is someone who gets off on hearing about women being sexually victimized, and that his “counseling” techniques were not kosher, but rather geared toward getting survivors to disclose their stories to him in detail.
A lot of these survivors are gonna need some follow up to help them deal with the further victimization. The problem is that crisis centers generally don’t keep any identifying information on their clients… Maybe they can put out a statement or an ad or something, if they have the resources (something bloggers could help with).
I don’t blame them, because he woulda had me fooled too. But this does show a need for some serious screening process for rcc advocates.
In a society that has a sociopath as its president, maybe we live in a conducive climate for sociopaths to ease into positions of power.
Have you read Snakes in Suits?
http://www.amazon.com/Snakes-Suits-When-Psychopaths-Work/dp/B000QW7Q72/ref=pd_sim_b_4
It’s about psychopaths manipulating themselves into positions of power in the corporate world, and then unleashing their evil-ness. Kind of explains what happened at Enron and the many, many other examples.
I have to agree with the other commenters who said that his writing rubbed them the wrong way even without accounting for him being The Enemy. I’m earnest and passionate, and about his age, but I actually snickered when reading some of his stuff. Can we say overwrought posturing?
Does anyone else have the feeling that he’s gone on a few crusades that none of the women affected actually wanted? I have no idea, of course, but I can see this guy freaking out about, say… a slideshow picture in a Biology lecture that he decided was exploitative, and it didn’t matter if the vast majority of the women and feminists on campus didn’t agree at all. He needed to save complacent women from exploiting themselves or allowing the exploitation to take place, even if they couldn’t see they were being exploited, because their feelings and thoughts are irrelevant when exploitation that they can’t see because they’re brainwashed by the patriarchy is taking place!
I mean, we already have evidence that he had no regard to the feeling and thoughts of the woman (women?) he assaulted.
I’ve found in my experience people who are open about past sexual assault/abuse are often targeted. I’ve learned to be very cautious over-time about who I tell, because some men tend to get this look in their eye, like “childhood sexual assault victims tend to be oversexualized…so maybe…” or maybe it’s a simpler “woman + sex at an early age with older man…hmm? Lolita?”
My friend was victimized by a guy who helped her through the trauma of a previous rape. It was brutal.
I’m wary of any male overly interested in sexual assault, even if it is anti-rape. It’s suspicious to me, and i’ve often scolded myself for it, but then I read things like this and I feel somewhat justified.
I wonder how his victim is doing. How is she handling this? You never hear about the victims (except in victim blaming) and I hate focusing on these fuckers. I don’t care why he did this, I don’t care about how his relationship with his mother caused this, I want him punished, severely, and to become a non-person in the eyes of everyone.
Have any other survivors experienced this over-interest? I’m curious.
but yeah, there -are- some red flags. it’s not foolproof though. I do also think that sometimes, stuff like “dick=bad, estrogen=safe” actually makes it -harder- to identify predators, because honestly that’s not what it’s about.
Absolutely – both my grandmothers are super-crazy too. Abusers and sociopaths don’t fit a demographic. It’s hard enough to identify the smart ones without throwing red herrings into the profile.
A lot of these survivors are gonna need some follow up to help them deal with the further victimization. The problem is that crisis centers generally don’t keep any identifying information on their clients… Maybe they can put out a statement or an ad or something, if they have the resources (something bloggers could help with).
Maybe, too, this is something we could just start posting articles about. It’s really not easy to identify predators, and yet our culture makes victims feel bad for not recognizing them. “Didn’t you know there was something off about him?” and so on. And yet, tell 100 people that a guy you dated briefly won’t leave you alone, and 99 of them will say, “He must really love you! Stop whining, you’re so lucky!” until he, you know, burns your house down, at which point they switch to “Didn’t you know there was something off about him?”
People need to get over their defensiveness about getting outsmarted by these people, get over their delusions that they will never meet such people, etc., and just pay a visit to reality now and again. Or shut up. Either way is fine by me – seriously. If a person doesn’t want to know about this stuff, but will refrain from issuing ignorant opinions about it, that’s good enough.
You know what? I don’t actually think this guy is a hypocrite. Evil, yes, a hypocrite, not really. Everybody thinks sexual abuse is wrong. I bet if you did a survey of convicted rapists they would still agree with that (just that what they did didn’t count, or they were framed, or whatever).
I think we should condemn Payne for what he did, not for the fact that it went against his fervently held principles. A hypocrite is someone who’s constantly pointing out your faults while displaying the same faults themselves. It’s not someone who commits a heinous crime and also puts effort into trying to prevent crimes. Some things are just morally wrong, no matter what your political views.
Also, to Mercurial Georgia, the problem here wasn’t his dick. His dick wasn’t involved in the assault.
Ha! Wouldn’t that be nice? If you think that actual sexual violence doesn’t count as sexual violence and is acceptable, than you don’t think that sexual violence is wrong. Saying on a survey that you think sexual violence is wrong is not the same thing as believing that sexual violence is wrong.
Furthermore, Payne was highly educated on the topic of sexual assault and knew damn well that what he was doing “counted.” (Personally, I think that they always know that in one way or another.) Payne was pointing out the faults of rape culture and the horrible nature of sexual assault and how it affects victims, while participating in that rape culture and affecting victims by committing it himself. That is indeed hypocritical.
Yes, Payne would deserve our scorn no matter what. But the context in which his actions occurred do make it even more heinous and do make him even more dangerous. Payne needs to be condemned for sexually assaulting a woman. He also needs to be condemned for the fact that he did so while wagging his finger at men who look at porn and counseling victims of sexually assault.
I don’t know how effective a resource this might be, but I did find this site quite a while ago, and the writer like a lot of people grew to know about how to spot these people because she had been preyed on by members of the family:
http://narcissists-suck.blogspot.com
At the very least, it might be able to point people to other resources.
Ashley — Kyle’s profile says that he was/has been a rape crisis counselor for 4 years under his “college activities.” That indicates to me that he was a counselor at Buena Vista University, where he graduated last year and where he was a resident adviser at the time of the assault.
Thanks Cara!
I think this is an example of the Nice Guy (TM). The kinda guy who is so niiiiiiiiice to women he thinks that they owe him something…
[...] Part of the point I was trying to make at GallingGalla’s place is much better elucidated by belledame and Betacandy in comments over at Feministe: belle: but yeah, there -are- some red flags. it’s [...]
re: Haley
That’s why I used dick as a qualifier actually, instead of XX.
[...] may already have come across one of the many blogs discussing Kyle Payne’s recent guilty plea. According to the Iowa Independent: In documents [...]
“Maybe, too, this is something we could just start posting articles about. ”
I went into a bit more detail on the red flags business viz this:
http://fetchmemyaxe.blogspot.com/2008/07/as-for-all-monday-morning-qbing-on-what.html
Yeah, I’ve seen the narcissists-suck site. It’s got some useful stuff; there’s a rather right-wing political slant interwoven with the armchair stuff, though. There are a few of those around.
I’ve always liked this site (not particularly political, also geared toward the layperson):
http://www.halcyon.com/jmashmun/npd/
Heartless Bitches’ “Manipulator Files” are also good:
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/manipulator/manip.shtml
actually, you know how this should -really- be useful: the fuckbag goes to a lot of conferences that other people in the left/feminist blogospheres probably go to also.
most recently: Conference on Media Reform in Minneapolis.
http:// kylepayne.wordpress.com/2008/05/16/my-happenings-minneapolis/
and of course, he went to the anti-porn conf with Robert Jensen et al (can’t find link at mo, it’s been mentioned)
…and, well, at least, now, everyone knows his name and what he looks like…at minimum, for damn sure he ought to be a pariah if/when he shows his face in such venues ever again, goddamit.
[...] been some juvenile shitslinging towards male feminists, particularly Hugo Schwyzer, and frankly, it’s bullshit (even as much [...]
[...] about not having enough energy to post anything substantive today, because I just re-read a bunch of the shitstorm surrounding convicted sex criminal and self-described feminist blogger Kyle Payne. [...]
[...] (And by keeping up, I mean refreshes Google Reader every 1.4 minutes.) I read about it last week on Feministe and ranted at someone and left it alone. Yet, it’s still bothering me. The incident had been [...]
The creepiest part to me when this all went down in the first place and I blogged about it was that he actually had contacted me personally after the crimes but before the indictment. To discuss his feminist principles.
I hope if nothing else, his victim can find some satisfaction in the word spreading about him. And that hopefully his name will be Google mud forever. I also feel for his poor ex- fiancee’
[...] am not surprised Reading this article on Feministe reminded me of the first time I joined an online support group. Within a few hours of [...]