There is a certain element to our conversation that is semantic, but an important element that is not. Because of that element, I would much prefer it if men called themselves feminist allies or advocates of feminism or something like that. When I hear that, I feel that there is respect for the issues I’ve raised here rather than assumptions about men’s place in my (and other women’s) movement.

I sure do consider PhysioProf a feminist ally no matter what he calls himself, but I rather appreciate that he doesn’t call himself a feminist.

Reading Kyle Payne’s blog, I have to say that I truly think I would have been REALLY suspicious and untrusting of the guy before all this horrible stuff came out. But then, whenever I say that these days, I’m accused of being a man-hating bitch. Wev.

In terms of self identifying, it seems clear that within one’s own head we can all think of ourselves as we want (I am occasionally Chief Justice of the Supreme Court, at least when I’m drunk enough. Heh.)

But feminism is on a scale, ya? A scale which runs from, perhaps, “not antifeminist” on the low end all the way up to “superfeminist” (and BTW, what do you want to bet that everyone reading this is using different definitions for “not antifeminist” and “superfeminist?”)

As to why I identify as feminist in public: in the real non-feminist-blog world, I think it’s safe to say that many people I meet (and almost all the men) are less feminist than I. That statement holds true no matter where I fall on your own internal feminist scale. Identifying as feminist to people who are my peers serves to help move them towards the right end of the scale. That’s a relative benefit, even if the absolute effect is small.

Just as some women support the ability of men to be feminists, well, frankly, some of us don’t. Probably because I’m one who doesn’t, I’m inclined to appreciate men taking a hands-off-that-identity approach to “feminist.”

Sure, I get that, and that’s fine. I appreciate Physioprof being hands off for himself. I appreciate it when men are willing to call themselves pro-feminists, or eschew the label, out of respect for female feminists who are uncomfortable with men claiming the label feminist. It costs them little, and benefits those female feminists much.

However, there are multidimensional issues here, and I feel like PhysioProf’s post came off as reductive, and as contemptuous toward men who do claim a feminist label. I appreciate PhysioProf being hands off for himself, as I said. However, I don’t like PhysioProf dictating the hands-off approach as the right one for everyone else.

It could tell us alot about our current struggles with the term “feminism”.

It is less important what men call themselves. It is more important what they do.

Yes, men should speak in support of feminism. But I see this as fundamentally different than the “I’m a feminist” self-identification I see from men who are really just wanting cookies, or to get laid – or both.

A man who is truly supportive of feminism is respectful of the women who ask men not to be called feminists, as well as those that are okay with it. (For the record, I am in the latter category although I would likely only consider “feminist” a quarter of the men I have met who call themselves “feminists”). He is less concerned about this label than he is about the privilege and power he experiences as a man.

And while Kyle Payne is disgusting, I wish I could say that this was the first time I had heard something like this. This is the second time in only a few months.

I’m a woman who supports the ability of men to be feminists, and who is totally fine with men calling themselves feminists. If feminism is by and about women, then why are you as a man dictating who can and cannot be in the class feminism?

I think I read PP a little differently on this one–more like he’s saying it’s not any man’s place to just slap that label on himself like a bumper sticker, not like he’s appointing himself guardian of the class feminism.

Just as some women support the ability of men to be feminists, well, frankly, some of us don’t. Probably because I’m one who doesn’t, I’m inclined to appreciate men taking a hands-off-that-identity approach to “feminist.”

Women created feminism, and women who consider themselves feminist use the term to identify themselves as such. Feminism is by and about women. Why the fuck should men appropriate this word to themselves and their own purposes, and thereby force women to have to concern themselves with what the fuck men are going on about when they use it?

…I don’t really understand this argument, coming from a man, frankly.

I’m a woman who supports the ability of men to be feminists, and who is totally fine with men calling themselves feminists. If feminism is by and about women, then why are you as a man dictating who can and cannot be in the class feminism?