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	<title>Comments on: Gender Policing Hurts Kids</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sat, 20 Mar 2010 06:57:28 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
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		<title>By: Flight Papers &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The gender game.</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/#comment-196573</link>
		<dc:creator>Flight Papers &#187; Blog Archive &#187; The gender game.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Aug 2008 05:14:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7768#comment-196573</guid>
		<description>[...] is a simultaneously cool and infuriating post over at Feministe about kids and gender policing. It&#8217;s made me think about how kids relate to [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is a simultaneously cool and infuriating post over at Feministe about kids and gender policing. It&#8217;s made me think about how kids relate to [...]</p>
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		<title>By: exholt</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/#comment-192592</link>
		<dc:creator>exholt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 16:23:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7768#comment-192592</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The desire to adorn ourselves is a deep-rooted human instinct, and it’s only fairly recently that we’ve shifted towards women adorning and men dressing lazily.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Unless you&#039;re talking fancy clothing on rare formal occasions....and even this has a limit depending on a given individual&#039;s/family&#039;s financial state, the people who had the means to pay more attention to fancy adornment and colors tended to be the upper and later the middle classes.  I recalled the vast majority of poor farmers and laborers before industrialization were &quot;dressed lazily/sloppily&quot; by the standards of their times not necessarily because they wanted to...but due to the constraints of their economic circumstances.  There were also sumptuary laws in certain regions prohibiting the wear of certain decorative pieces of clothing/certain materials.  Dressing &quot;lazily/sloppily&quot; has always existed.....only difference is that there is much less rank classist prejudice against those who do so now than in the not-so-distant past....and far more widely accepted in our society.  

I&#039;m glad I didn&#039;t live during the 1950&#039;s and early 1960&#039;s where not wearing a suit and tie would be sufficient grounds for a prof to toss you out of class as a boomer-aged friend experienced as an NYU undergrad in that era.....or in past eras where clothing was a far more visible marker of social class through the use of sumptuary laws where those who were deemed &quot;too low&quot; in the socio-economic class hierarchy were prohibited from wearing materials like silk and gold/silver thread and/or wearing certain decorative colors.....and those of higher classes were expected to conform to their strict dress standards on the pain of facing social ostracism and sometimes even punishment for offending the sensibilities of other powerful people.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The desire to adorn ourselves is a deep-rooted human instinct, and it’s only fairly recently that we’ve shifted towards women adorning and men dressing lazily.</p></blockquote>
<p>Unless you&#8217;re talking fancy clothing on rare formal occasions&#8230;.and even this has a limit depending on a given individual&#8217;s/family&#8217;s financial state, the people who had the means to pay more attention to fancy adornment and colors tended to be the upper and later the middle classes.  I recalled the vast majority of poor farmers and laborers before industrialization were &#8220;dressed lazily/sloppily&#8221; by the standards of their times not necessarily because they wanted to&#8230;but due to the constraints of their economic circumstances.  There were also sumptuary laws in certain regions prohibiting the wear of certain decorative pieces of clothing/certain materials.  Dressing &#8220;lazily/sloppily&#8221; has always existed&#8230;..only difference is that there is much less rank classist prejudice against those who do so now than in the not-so-distant past&#8230;.and far more widely accepted in our society.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;m glad I didn&#8217;t live during the 1950&#8217;s and early 1960&#8217;s where not wearing a suit and tie would be sufficient grounds for a prof to toss you out of class as a boomer-aged friend experienced as an NYU undergrad in that era&#8230;..or in past eras where clothing was a far more visible marker of social class through the use of sumptuary laws where those who were deemed &#8220;too low&#8221; in the socio-economic class hierarchy were prohibited from wearing materials like silk and gold/silver thread and/or wearing certain decorative colors&#8230;..and those of higher classes were expected to conform to their strict dress standards on the pain of facing social ostracism and sometimes even punishment for offending the sensibilities of other powerful people.</p>
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		<title>By: Constance</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/#comment-192566</link>
		<dc:creator>Constance</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 26 Jul 2008 12:43:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7768#comment-192566</guid>
		<description>As a mom of a beautiful 3 year old boy who wants to grow up to be a princess and takes ballet class.  I am open minded as they come.  I have not told my son that boys cannot be princesses or that ballet is for girls.  I try... I still struggle however with hoping whatever path he chooses is the easier one and gender &quot;normal&quot; path.  Not because one is right and the other wrong but I really don&#039;t want him to be punished by teachers or peers.  I want his journey into himself to be an easy path.

I selfishly take comfort that after he is done running around in his skirt and using his high pitched voice he deepens his voice and magically becomes superman.  I do not react differently from one to the other but it takes every bit of strength within me.

I appreciate your article, thank you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a mom of a beautiful 3 year old boy who wants to grow up to be a princess and takes ballet class.  I am open minded as they come.  I have not told my son that boys cannot be princesses or that ballet is for girls.  I try&#8230; I still struggle however with hoping whatever path he chooses is the easier one and gender &#8220;normal&#8221; path.  Not because one is right and the other wrong but I really don&#8217;t want him to be punished by teachers or peers.  I want his journey into himself to be an easy path.</p>
<p>I selfishly take comfort that after he is done running around in his skirt and using his high pitched voice he deepens his voice and magically becomes superman.  I do not react differently from one to the other but it takes every bit of strength within me.</p>
<p>I appreciate your article, thank you.</p>
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		<title>By: Kindergarten Won&#8217;t Admit Apache Boy with Braids &#171; Feminocracy</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/#comment-191856</link>
		<dc:creator>Kindergarten Won&#8217;t Admit Apache Boy with Braids &#171; Feminocracy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 24 Jul 2008 04:40:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7768#comment-191856</guid>
		<description>[...] Won&#8217;t Admit Apache Boy with&#160;Braids    Gender-policing is known to hurt kids&#8217; psyches and feet. Now, a Texas school is proving that gender-policing can also perfectly complement racism and [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Won&#8217;t Admit Apache Boy with&nbsp;Braids    Gender-policing is known to hurt kids&#8217; psyches and feet. Now, a Texas school is proving that gender-policing can also perfectly complement racism and [...]</p>
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		<title>By: links for 2008-07-22 &#171; don&#8217;t ya wish your girlfriend was smart like me?</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/#comment-191174</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-07-22 &#171; don&#8217;t ya wish your girlfriend was smart like me?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 10:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7768#comment-191174</guid>
		<description>[...] Gender Policing Hurts Kids from Feministe: great article. Also recommend the film Ma Vie En Rose. (tags: gender gender_stereotypes gender_roles npr) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Gender Policing Hurts Kids from Feministe: great article. Also recommend the film Ma Vie En Rose. (tags: gender gender_stereotypes gender_roles npr) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mel</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/#comment-191079</link>
		<dc:creator>Mel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 02:12:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7768#comment-191079</guid>
		<description>Bushfire, while I agree that men&#039;s clothing is generally more practical than women&#039;s (although the thought of wearing men&#039;s shoes frankly makes my feet hurt--they might be comfortable for men, but they are the wrong shape for my very narrow feet--I have never had a problem finding comfortable and practical women&#039;s shoes), I don&#039;t think decorative clothing is an expression of gender.  The desire to adorn ourselves is a deep-rooted human instinct, and it&#039;s only fairly recently that we&#039;ve shifted towards women adorning and men dressing lazily.  One can adorn oneself because one likes bright colors or interesting textures without doing so to attract male interest.  One can be decorated without desiring to be a decorative object.

And I know more than a few men who complain about how boring modern men&#039;s clothing is, and envy women the ability to buy shirts with interesting cuts and a real range of colors.  That doesn&#039;t mean women are luckier, but I think it supports a desire for adornment as a human trait, not a specifically feminine one.

I am not very fond of impractical clothing on most occasions, and absolutely against uncomfortable clothing--but I don&#039;t want to perpetuate the usual &quot;boy things good and practical, girl things frivolous and bad&quot; attitude.  There is nothing wrong or frivolous or impractical about wearing colors, and not all women&#039;s clothing is uncomfortable and restrictive.

Incidentally, I keep seeing people puzzled as to why women&#039;s clothes cost more and use less fabric: it&#039;s because labor also goes into them (even if it&#039;s sweatshop labor).  Women&#039;s clothes are generally more fitted, ergo they require more labor.  Fabric is pretty cheap these days compared to labor (historically, labor was cheap, fabric was pricey, and nothing was off-the-rack unless it was secondhand).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bushfire, while I agree that men&#8217;s clothing is generally more practical than women&#8217;s (although the thought of wearing men&#8217;s shoes frankly makes my feet hurt&#8211;they might be comfortable for men, but they are the wrong shape for my very narrow feet&#8211;I have never had a problem finding comfortable and practical women&#8217;s shoes), I don&#8217;t think decorative clothing is an expression of gender.  The desire to adorn ourselves is a deep-rooted human instinct, and it&#8217;s only fairly recently that we&#8217;ve shifted towards women adorning and men dressing lazily.  One can adorn oneself because one likes bright colors or interesting textures without doing so to attract male interest.  One can be decorated without desiring to be a decorative object.</p>
<p>And I know more than a few men who complain about how boring modern men&#8217;s clothing is, and envy women the ability to buy shirts with interesting cuts and a real range of colors.  That doesn&#8217;t mean women are luckier, but I think it supports a desire for adornment as a human trait, not a specifically feminine one.</p>
<p>I am not very fond of impractical clothing on most occasions, and absolutely against uncomfortable clothing&#8211;but I don&#8217;t want to perpetuate the usual &#8220;boy things good and practical, girl things frivolous and bad&#8221; attitude.  There is nothing wrong or frivolous or impractical about wearing colors, and not all women&#8217;s clothing is uncomfortable and restrictive.</p>
<p>Incidentally, I keep seeing people puzzled as to why women&#8217;s clothes cost more and use less fabric: it&#8217;s because labor also goes into them (even if it&#8217;s sweatshop labor).  Women&#8217;s clothes are generally more fitted, ergo they require more labor.  Fabric is pretty cheap these days compared to labor (historically, labor was cheap, fabric was pricey, and nothing was off-the-rack unless it was secondhand).</p>
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		<title>By: Alexandra V.</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/#comment-190840</link>
		<dc:creator>Alexandra V.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 Jul 2008 04:01:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7768#comment-190840</guid>
		<description>Great post.  I&#039;m 31 and I wear sneakers with skirts!  :D
(mostly if it is hot out and I need to walk a lot -- otherwise I&#039;ll probably wear sandals, and those have to be comfortable, too)
I&#039;m fortunate that my mom never made me, or encouraged me, to wear heels.
Thanks, mom!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great post.  I&#8217;m 31 and I wear sneakers with skirts!  :D<br />
(mostly if it is hot out and I need to walk a lot &#8212; otherwise I&#8217;ll probably wear sandals, and those have to be comfortable, too)<br />
I&#8217;m fortunate that my mom never made me, or encouraged me, to wear heels.<br />
Thanks, mom!</p>
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		<title>By: Bitchy Betty &#187; Blog Archive &#187; If You&#8217;ve Got It, Flaunt It! and Other Myths of Sexuality</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/#comment-190780</link>
		<dc:creator>Bitchy Betty &#187; Blog Archive &#187; If You&#8217;ve Got It, Flaunt It! and Other Myths of Sexuality</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 22:34:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7768#comment-190780</guid>
		<description>[...] seems like we want our girls to grow up too fast. On Feministe this week, Habladora talks about gender policing and her friend&#8217;s daughter forced to wear high heels when she&#8217;d rather be wearing [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] seems like we want our girls to grow up too fast. On Feministe this week, Habladora talks about gender policing and her friend&#8217;s daughter forced to wear high heels when she&#8217;d rather be wearing [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kakalina</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/#comment-190658</link>
		<dc:creator>Kakalina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:02:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7768#comment-190658</guid>
		<description>&quot;anything with more than a 1/2 inch heel and isn’t in sneaker for is a “heel”, this includes penny loafers&quot;

sorry, meant to say &quot;in sneaker form/design&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;anything with more than a 1/2 inch heel and isn’t in sneaker for is a “heel”, this includes penny loafers&#8221;</p>
<p>sorry, meant to say &#8220;in sneaker form/design&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Kakalina</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/18/gender-policing-hurts-kids/#comment-190656</link>
		<dc:creator>Kakalina</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 20 Jul 2008 15:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7768#comment-190656</guid>
		<description>I have one pair of shoes that I wear practically all the time, whether it&#039;s outside, at school, or on the volleyball court. I really, really don&#039;t like heels and stuff (and have an apparently very odd way of identifying them--anything with more than a 1/2 inch heel and isn&#039;t in sneaker for is a &quot;heel&quot;, this includes penny loafers), though I have two pairs. One of which I only wear around the house because if I wear them all day my ankles hurt, the other pair which I wear for dress up only (which mostly means Christmas, and eating out at nice restaurants during School trips), but take off if I&#039;m walking outside and it&#039;s not rainy/any other kind of wet, and if I&#039;m inside and I need to walk faster. So basically the only time I&#039;m wearing those are when I&#039;m sitting down, lols. 

There&#039;s a nice shoe store called &quot;Omnyodo&quot; (google it) which has a lot of fun designs (for men and women--the women&#039;s shoes are &quot;identifiably&quot; feminine, but there&#039;s no reason a guy couldn&#039;t wear any of them :)), and are properly made ^^ No heels or anything! So, predictably, I&#039;ve got about four of their designs on my wishlist :) 

My mother wears men&#039;s slacks because women&#039;s slacks don&#039;t fit her--they&#039;re all designed to fit a girl who&#039;s got a specifically curvy kind of body, which my mother resolutely doesn&#039;t have; and could care less about it. My entire childhood was with complete disregard to &quot;gender roles&quot; and I liked the full gamut of &quot;boyish&quot; and &quot;girlish&quot; things with the exception of sports except for floor hockey and dancing. I guess it&#039;s not too much of a surprise that I didn&#039;t have too many friends, but really I didn&#039;t care too much either, and still don&#039;t. I guess one could say I&#039;m more mature about it now, but I still don&#039;t pay much attention to gender roles.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have one pair of shoes that I wear practically all the time, whether it&#8217;s outside, at school, or on the volleyball court. I really, really don&#8217;t like heels and stuff (and have an apparently very odd way of identifying them&#8211;anything with more than a 1/2 inch heel and isn&#8217;t in sneaker for is a &#8220;heel&#8221;, this includes penny loafers), though I have two pairs. One of which I only wear around the house because if I wear them all day my ankles hurt, the other pair which I wear for dress up only (which mostly means Christmas, and eating out at nice restaurants during School trips), but take off if I&#8217;m walking outside and it&#8217;s not rainy/any other kind of wet, and if I&#8217;m inside and I need to walk faster. So basically the only time I&#8217;m wearing those are when I&#8217;m sitting down, lols. </p>
<p>There&#8217;s a nice shoe store called &#8220;Omnyodo&#8221; (google it) which has a lot of fun designs (for men and women&#8211;the women&#8217;s shoes are &#8220;identifiably&#8221; feminine, but there&#8217;s no reason a guy couldn&#8217;t wear any of them :)), and are properly made ^^ No heels or anything! So, predictably, I&#8217;ve got about four of their designs on my wishlist :) </p>
<p>My mother wears men&#8217;s slacks because women&#8217;s slacks don&#8217;t fit her&#8211;they&#8217;re all designed to fit a girl who&#8217;s got a specifically curvy kind of body, which my mother resolutely doesn&#8217;t have; and could care less about it. My entire childhood was with complete disregard to &#8220;gender roles&#8221; and I liked the full gamut of &#8220;boyish&#8221; and &#8220;girlish&#8221; things with the exception of sports except for floor hockey and dancing. I guess it&#8217;s not too much of a surprise that I didn&#8217;t have too many friends, but really I didn&#8217;t care too much either, and still don&#8217;t. I guess one could say I&#8217;m more mature about it now, but I still don&#8217;t pay much attention to gender roles.</p>
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