<?xml version="1.0" encoding="utf-8"?><rss version="2.0"
	xmlns:content="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/content/"
	xmlns:dc="http://purl.org/dc/elements/1.1/"
	xmlns:atom="http://www.w3.org/2005/Atom"
	xmlns:sy="http://purl.org/rss/1.0/modules/syndication/"
		>
<channel>
	<title>Comments on: Welcome to Jill Filipovic&#8217;s Den of Antifeminist Vice. No lipstick, no stilettos, no service.</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 21 Mar 2010 05:07:08 +0000</lastBuildDate>
	
	<sy:updatePeriod>hourly</sy:updatePeriod>
	<sy:updateFrequency>1</sy:updateFrequency>
		<item>
		<title>By: Ladyblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Demanding Women</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/#comment-220227</link>
		<dc:creator>Ladyblog &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Demanding Women</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 07 Jan 2009 18:35:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7817#comment-220227</guid>
		<description>[...] neutral phrase, pro-woman) for heterosexual women to demand beauty from men? See the discussion here, here, here, here, and wherever the links from those posts take you. By &#8216;demand beauty&#8217; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] neutral phrase, pro-woman) for heterosexual women to demand beauty from men? See the discussion here, here, here, here, and wherever the links from those posts take you. By &#8216;demand beauty&#8217; [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: banisteriopsis</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/#comment-193055</link>
		<dc:creator>banisteriopsis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 19:27:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7817#comment-193055</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Women are genetically wired to be attracted to high-status males, whereas men are wired to be attracted to beauty, or more specifically, cues to fertility.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

...which is complete and total bullshit. This kind of reasoning denies women&#039;s ability to be turned on by hotness for hotness&#039; sake. 

Will Smith and Johnny Depp... yum. Thanks, the comments here have been really useful and timely for me, thinking about what level of objectification I&#039;m OK with in my own relationships.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Women are genetically wired to be attracted to high-status males, whereas men are wired to be attracted to beauty, or more specifically, cues to fertility.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230;which is complete and total bullshit. This kind of reasoning denies women&#8217;s ability to be turned on by hotness for hotness&#8217; sake. </p>
<p>Will Smith and Johnny Depp&#8230; yum. Thanks, the comments here have been really useful and timely for me, thinking about what level of objectification I&#8217;m OK with in my own relationships.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Manju</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/#comment-193036</link>
		<dc:creator>Manju</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 16:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7817#comment-193036</guid>
		<description>well, i think the gist of evolutionary psychology is that money and muscle can be boiled down to one thing: status, or leadership ability within the group. Women are genetically wired to be attracted to high-status males, whereas men are wired to be attracted to beauty, or more specifically, cues to fertility.  

now back in cavewoman days status meant tall men with large muscles, chartacteristics that today are only peripheral to high status. so there&#039;s a disconnect. humor or wit (a sign of intelligence) however, seems to be a constant...which is probably Quadaffi&#039;s problem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>well, i think the gist of evolutionary psychology is that money and muscle can be boiled down to one thing: status, or leadership ability within the group. Women are genetically wired to be attracted to high-status males, whereas men are wired to be attracted to beauty, or more specifically, cues to fertility.  </p>
<p>now back in cavewoman days status meant tall men with large muscles, chartacteristics that today are only peripheral to high status. so there&#8217;s a disconnect. humor or wit (a sign of intelligence) however, seems to be a constant&#8230;which is probably Quadaffi&#8217;s problem.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Lynn Gazis-Sax</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/#comment-193021</link>
		<dc:creator>Lynn Gazis-Sax</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 14:32:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7817#comment-193021</guid>
		<description>Jill, Jill, whatever did you mean by flying in the face of &quot;reality&quot;?  You should have posted the men&#039;s &lt;em&gt;incomes&lt;/em&gt;, not their half-naked bodies.  After all, we all know that what &lt;em&gt;really&lt;/em&gt; turns women on is the size of men&#039;s &lt;em&gt;wallets&lt;/em&gt;, not their other characteristics.

Allow me to correct your approach.  &lt;a href=&quot;http://www.squarehippies.com/actors/2008/03/will-smith-2/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;This guy&lt;/a&gt; was listed in Forbes magazine for having made $80 million in the past year.  See how much hotter he is, once you have that vital information?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jill, Jill, whatever did you mean by flying in the face of &#8220;reality&#8221;?  You should have posted the men&#8217;s <em>incomes</em>, not their half-naked bodies.  After all, we all know that what <em>really</em> turns women on is the size of men&#8217;s <em>wallets</em>, not their other characteristics.</p>
<p>Allow me to correct your approach.  <a href="http://www.squarehippies.com/actors/2008/03/will-smith-2/" rel="nofollow">This guy</a> was listed in Forbes magazine for having made $80 million in the past year.  See how much hotter he is, once you have that vital information?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: SarahMC</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/#comment-192908</link>
		<dc:creator>SarahMC</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 28 Jul 2008 00:23:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7817#comment-192908</guid>
		<description>This thread is amazing.  I wonder if all the people wringing their hands about this post spend a comparable amount of time on blogs that display and dissect women&#039;s bodies, writing hideously cruel, misogynist things about them.
Jill displayed a bunch of pics of attractive men, and many of the commenters are admiring them.  Nobody has made vile &quot;jokes&quot; about abusing their bodies.  Nobody has expressed the desire to rape them.  Nobody has suggested that the men in the photos are merely a collection of their parts and good for nothing more than fucking.  Nobody has called them names or denigrated them.  
There is a world of difference between this post of photographed men, and most displays of (half) naked women in the media and on the Internet.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This thread is amazing.  I wonder if all the people wringing their hands about this post spend a comparable amount of time on blogs that display and dissect women&#8217;s bodies, writing hideously cruel, misogynist things about them.<br />
Jill displayed a bunch of pics of attractive men, and many of the commenters are admiring them.  Nobody has made vile &#8220;jokes&#8221; about abusing their bodies.  Nobody has expressed the desire to rape them.  Nobody has suggested that the men in the photos are merely a collection of their parts and good for nothing more than fucking.  Nobody has called them names or denigrated them.<br />
There is a world of difference between this post of photographed men, and most displays of (half) naked women in the media and on the Internet.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/#comment-192898</link>
		<dc:creator>K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:54:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7817#comment-192898</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;As you said, women are supposed to be judged on appearance, men on success. You don’t like that system, but it has its reasons and has worked for thousands of years.&lt;/i&gt;

also, congrats to jack for being a sexist jackASS. begone, troll. you&#039;re not even trying to concern troll, just being a whiny sexist. how boring.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>As you said, women are supposed to be judged on appearance, men on success. You don’t like that system, but it has its reasons and has worked for thousands of years.</i></p>
<p>also, congrats to jack for being a sexist jackASS. begone, troll. you&#8217;re not even trying to concern troll, just being a whiny sexist. how boring.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: K</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/#comment-192897</link>
		<dc:creator>K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:49:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7817#comment-192897</guid>
		<description>if you step outside of actors, there&#039;s going to be a wider variety of guys who are considered attractive. i am not thrilled by most of these guys aside from jake G. some musicians i find totally hot, who are also considered attractive by many other fans:

zacky vengeance: http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e168/diamonddust1414/Nothing%20More%20Than%20Fiction/ZackyVengeance.jpg

frank iero (he&#039;s all of like 5&#039;4&quot;): http://mcraddiction05.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/frank.jpg

travis mccoy: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/175/474957903_1760e1f3bc.jpg

william beckett: http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs15/300W/i/2007/010/2/c/William_Beckett_by_b0pp.jpg

anyone else with me?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>if you step outside of actors, there&#8217;s going to be a wider variety of guys who are considered attractive. i am not thrilled by most of these guys aside from jake G. some musicians i find totally hot, who are also considered attractive by many other fans:</p>
<p>zacky vengeance: <a href="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e168/diamonddust1414/Nothing%20More%20Than%20Fiction/ZackyVengeance.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e168/diamonddust1414/Nothing%20More%20Than%20Fiction/ZackyVengeance.jpg</a></p>
<p>frank iero (he&#8217;s all of like 5&#8242;4&#8243;): <a href="http://mcraddiction05.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/frank.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://mcraddiction05.tripod.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/frank.jpg</a></p>
<p>travis mccoy: <a href="http://farm1.static.flickr.com/175/474957903_1760e1f3bc.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://farm1.static.flickr.com/175/474957903_1760e1f3bc.jpg</a></p>
<p>william beckett: <a href="http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs15/300W/i/2007/010/2/c/William_Beckett_by_b0pp.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://tn3-1.deviantart.com/fs15/300W/i/2007/010/2/c/William_Beckett_by_b0pp.jpg</a></p>
<p>anyone else with me?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Manju</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/#comment-192887</link>
		<dc:creator>Manju</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 23:00:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7817#comment-192887</guid>
		<description>&quot;I would argue that the bodyfat percentages of the men displayed vary by 20%, so already we’re looking at a much wider variety than the group of women whom many men would canvas.&quot;

Not if you go by porn, which is aimed at men...and for all its problems offers a huge degree of variety, especially in comparison to Madison Avenue. 

Now fashion magazines are not aimed at men and have taken a peculiar twist beginning in the 60&#039;s. Personally I blame gay men and their artistic/aesthetic influence. After all, you see models essentially devoid of breasts and hips, two things straight men are genetically wired to lust, thopugh social construction and individual varience may trump that. Its a desexualized version of the female form, representing what many gay men would find attractive in a woman if they found women attractive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I would argue that the bodyfat percentages of the men displayed vary by 20%, so already we’re looking at a much wider variety than the group of women whom many men would canvas.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not if you go by porn, which is aimed at men&#8230;and for all its problems offers a huge degree of variety, especially in comparison to Madison Avenue. </p>
<p>Now fashion magazines are not aimed at men and have taken a peculiar twist beginning in the 60&#8217;s. Personally I blame gay men and their artistic/aesthetic influence. After all, you see models essentially devoid of breasts and hips, two things straight men are genetically wired to lust, thopugh social construction and individual varience may trump that. Its a desexualized version of the female form, representing what many gay men would find attractive in a woman if they found women attractive.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: octogalore</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/#comment-192843</link>
		<dc:creator>octogalore</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 19:36:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7817#comment-192843</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s typical that in a post by a woman showcasing men, one sees comments one would never see going the other direction.  Clearly by the title, this is slightly tongue in cheek, having fun with the idea that only men are interested in display by only women.  An idea that&#039;s been out there in feminist bloglandia over the past couple of weeks and is ripe for exposure as ridiculous.  These snapshots weren&#039;t some broader statement about the direction of Feministe, but an attempt -- an effective one -- to demolish that idea.

And of course in demonstrating that a woman does indeed get to have &quot;the gaze,&quot; Jill is treated to suggestions that she might want to post pictures of guys she doesn&#039;t find attractive.  Why?  She isn&#039;t claiming these selections are uninfluenced at all by popular standards.  But she does have the right to find attractive who she finds attractive.  Why the need to compromise on that?  The whole point is that women, too, aren&#039;t free of visual &quot;vice&quot; and aren&#039;t perfect in our choices as to what to objectify.

Margalis says: &quot;There is a difference between thinking to oneself that only certain types of people (thin) are attractive and sharing that with the world while soliciting agreement.&quot;

I would argue that the bodyfat percentages of the men displayed vary by 20%, so already we&#039;re looking at a much wider variety than the group of women whom many men would canvas.  (I must admit that were I to ever put together a male calendar, there would not even be this level of variance.)  Additionally, I don&#039;t see anywhere in the post any kind of solicitation of agreement about acceptable bodyfat percentage for men.  This is just one woman&#039;s opinion.  We all know that men have other ways, culturally, of substituting other characteristics besides physical ones that will aid their marketability.  We as women do not.  

But the point of the post is not (correct me if I am wrong) to set forth a depiction of what the &quot;perfect feminist (hetero version)&quot; would find attractive in a man, but what this particular feminist finds attractive.  Which effectively trounces arguments that women are alone in being the &quot;sex class.&quot;  Injecting all kinds of other things the post &quot;should do&quot; is uncomfortably similar to what women are expected to do in general: make compromises men don&#039;t have to make, while backwards and in heels.

Personally, I&#039;m glad the post didn&#039;t compromise.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s typical that in a post by a woman showcasing men, one sees comments one would never see going the other direction.  Clearly by the title, this is slightly tongue in cheek, having fun with the idea that only men are interested in display by only women.  An idea that&#8217;s been out there in feminist bloglandia over the past couple of weeks and is ripe for exposure as ridiculous.  These snapshots weren&#8217;t some broader statement about the direction of Feministe, but an attempt &#8212; an effective one &#8212; to demolish that idea.</p>
<p>And of course in demonstrating that a woman does indeed get to have &#8220;the gaze,&#8221; Jill is treated to suggestions that she might want to post pictures of guys she doesn&#8217;t find attractive.  Why?  She isn&#8217;t claiming these selections are uninfluenced at all by popular standards.  But she does have the right to find attractive who she finds attractive.  Why the need to compromise on that?  The whole point is that women, too, aren&#8217;t free of visual &#8220;vice&#8221; and aren&#8217;t perfect in our choices as to what to objectify.</p>
<p>Margalis says: &#8220;There is a difference between thinking to oneself that only certain types of people (thin) are attractive and sharing that with the world while soliciting agreement.&#8221;</p>
<p>I would argue that the bodyfat percentages of the men displayed vary by 20%, so already we&#8217;re looking at a much wider variety than the group of women whom many men would canvas.  (I must admit that were I to ever put together a male calendar, there would not even be this level of variance.)  Additionally, I don&#8217;t see anywhere in the post any kind of solicitation of agreement about acceptable bodyfat percentage for men.  This is just one woman&#8217;s opinion.  We all know that men have other ways, culturally, of substituting other characteristics besides physical ones that will aid their marketability.  We as women do not.  </p>
<p>But the point of the post is not (correct me if I am wrong) to set forth a depiction of what the &#8220;perfect feminist (hetero version)&#8221; would find attractive in a man, but what this particular feminist finds attractive.  Which effectively trounces arguments that women are alone in being the &#8220;sex class.&#8221;  Injecting all kinds of other things the post &#8220;should do&#8221; is uncomfortably similar to what women are expected to do in general: make compromises men don&#8217;t have to make, while backwards and in heels.</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m glad the post didn&#8217;t compromise.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Manju</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/07/24/welcome-to-jill-filipovics-den-of-antifeminist-vice-no-lipstick-no-stilettos-no-service/#comment-192779</link>
		<dc:creator>Manju</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 27 Jul 2008 16:34:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7817#comment-192779</guid>
		<description>I have lost a pound and a half since this was post was posted. I&#039;m happy and oppressed. Beauty is the opiate of the masses.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have lost a pound and a half since this was post was posted. I&#8217;m happy and oppressed. Beauty is the opiate of the masses.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
</channel>
</rss>
