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	<title>Comments on: Airing of Grievances</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 09:13:48 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: three rivers fog &#187; *tumbleweeds*</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/#comment-196074</link>
		<dc:creator>three rivers fog &#187; *tumbleweeds*</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 09 Aug 2008 17:31:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7813#comment-196074</guid>
		<description>[...] Airing of Grievances [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Airing of Grievances [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Level Best</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/#comment-195655</link>
		<dc:creator>Level Best</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 19:51:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7813#comment-195655</guid>
		<description>I am so glad these conversations are going on.  When I was a child there was this odious commercial whose catchphrase was, &quot;When you&#039;ve got your health, you&#039;ve got just about everything!&quot;  I always read it as saying, &quot;When you&#039;re not &#039;healthy&#039; you&#039;re nothing!,&quot; and it offended me to the core of my being.  Thank you, amandaw, for initiating this exchange.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am so glad these conversations are going on.  When I was a child there was this odious commercial whose catchphrase was, &#8220;When you&#8217;ve got your health, you&#8217;ve got just about everything!&#8221;  I always read it as saying, &#8220;When you&#8217;re not &#8216;healthy&#8217; you&#8217;re nothing!,&#8221; and it offended me to the core of my being.  Thank you, amandaw, for initiating this exchange.</p>
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		<title>By: Tomis</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/#comment-195634</link>
		<dc:creator>Tomis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:32:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7813#comment-195634</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;amandaw: 
“You’ve pretty much articulated the definition of the social model of disability, there. Like I said, fat and disability share a lot in common. But they are still separate phenomena.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Could you explain that a bit more? I understand some of the concerns about shoehorning people into a model which isn&#039;t a pefect ready-made fit, and conversely about the implications of expanding this conception of disability further than it was originally intended. But while these problems are not trivial, they do seem workable, especially given the potential benefits for all.

Identical discussions are taking place elsewhere: 
http://thiswayoflife.org/blog/?p=287 
and to be honest, I find fat people&#039;s reluctance to identify as disabled even stranger than the section of autistics who also refuse the term. It&#039;s been a while since I read any of the FA blogs, but some of the  issues I recall--medical pathologization; social stigma; equal access to employment, shops and transport—are pretty much identical to the some of the main concerns of those with physical impairments in the conventional sense. 

Here is a tool which instantly produces a more just and healthy view of the individual and their relationship to society, and which has a proven track record of bringing about tangible social change, yet people seem instinctively unwilling to adopt it. Apart from issues of integration mentioned above, I can only image that this is due to misconceptions about the social model itself (I know it hasn&#039;t always made it across the Atlantic intact), or the lingering stigma of the word &#039;disability&#039; from the medical model and society at large.

&lt;blockquote&gt;I can accept an individual claiming that hir fat is a disability; a lot of times it does fit quite neatly in that definition above. It’s harder to swallow when the claim is that all fat is disability&lt;/blockquote&gt;

It&#039;s this kind of thing which makes me wonder if there&#039;s some kind of misunderstanding going on. From a social perspective, individual fatness has nothing at all to do with disability.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>amandaw:<br />
“You’ve pretty much articulated the definition of the social model of disability, there. Like I said, fat and disability share a lot in common. But they are still separate phenomena.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Could you explain that a bit more? I understand some of the concerns about shoehorning people into a model which isn&#8217;t a pefect ready-made fit, and conversely about the implications of expanding this conception of disability further than it was originally intended. But while these problems are not trivial, they do seem workable, especially given the potential benefits for all.</p>
<p>Identical discussions are taking place elsewhere:<br />
<a href="http://thiswayoflife.org/blog/?p=287" rel="nofollow">http://thiswayoflife.org/blog/?p=287</a><br />
and to be honest, I find fat people&#8217;s reluctance to identify as disabled even stranger than the section of autistics who also refuse the term. It&#8217;s been a while since I read any of the FA blogs, but some of the  issues I recall&#8211;medical pathologization; social stigma; equal access to employment, shops and transport—are pretty much identical to the some of the main concerns of those with physical impairments in the conventional sense. </p>
<p>Here is a tool which instantly produces a more just and healthy view of the individual and their relationship to society, and which has a proven track record of bringing about tangible social change, yet people seem instinctively unwilling to adopt it. Apart from issues of integration mentioned above, I can only image that this is due to misconceptions about the social model itself (I know it hasn&#8217;t always made it across the Atlantic intact), or the lingering stigma of the word &#8216;disability&#8217; from the medical model and society at large.</p>
<blockquote><p>I can accept an individual claiming that hir fat is a disability; a lot of times it does fit quite neatly in that definition above. It’s harder to swallow when the claim is that all fat is disability</p></blockquote>
<p>It&#8217;s this kind of thing which makes me wonder if there&#8217;s some kind of misunderstanding going on. From a social perspective, individual fatness has nothing at all to do with disability.</p>
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		<title>By: Ismone</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/#comment-195614</link>
		<dc:creator>Ismone</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 17:26:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7813#comment-195614</guid>
		<description>jessielikewhoa,

I&#039;ve always been told that 1200 calories is the minimum for women, and that eating less can mean your body goes into starvation mode and starts metabolizing muscle.  Not to worry you too much, but you might want to talk to a doc or nutrionist and make sure you&#039;re getting enough calories/nutrients.

(Of course, most veggies have so few calories and so much bulk, so I can understand why eating 1200 on a veg diet might be different.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>jessielikewhoa,</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve always been told that 1200 calories is the minimum for women, and that eating less can mean your body goes into starvation mode and starts metabolizing muscle.  Not to worry you too much, but you might want to talk to a doc or nutrionist and make sure you&#8217;re getting enough calories/nutrients.</p>
<p>(Of course, most veggies have so few calories and so much bulk, so I can understand why eating 1200 on a veg diet might be different.)</p>
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		<title>By: iiii</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/#comment-195592</link>
		<dc:creator>iiii</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 15:08:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7813#comment-195592</guid>
		<description>&quot;For what is health? I say (and of late years I am astonished that the World Health Organization agrees with me) that health is when nothing hurts very much; but the popular idea is of health as a norm to which we must all seek to conform. Not to be healthy, not to be in &quot;top form&quot; is one of the few sins that modern society is willing to recognize and condemn. But are there not as many healths as there are bodies?&quot;

- - Robertson Davies, _The Cunning Man_</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For what is health? I say (and of late years I am astonished that the World Health Organization agrees with me) that health is when nothing hurts very much; but the popular idea is of health as a norm to which we must all seek to conform. Not to be healthy, not to be in &#8220;top form&#8221; is one of the few sins that modern society is willing to recognize and condemn. But are there not as many healths as there are bodies?&#8221;</p>
<p>- &#8211; Robertson Davies, _The Cunning Man_</p>
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		<title>By: The Bald Soprano</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/#comment-195552</link>
		<dc:creator>The Bald Soprano</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 08:19:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7813#comment-195552</guid>
		<description>As someone who has several chronic conditions (although none that place me in any of the classic disabled groups, at least yet), I&#039;ve been struggling to deal with the question of how to reconcile HAES with the fact that I&#039;ll never be &quot;healthy&quot;. This post at mouthfeel I found interesting and possibly helpful: (http://peggynature.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/tools-vs-intentions-in-health-at-every-size/).

For me, giving my body what it wants at the moment can be disastrous. For example, I often crave potato chips, but I now know that if I actually EAT the potato chips, it causes me more grief than it&#039;s worth. So for the person who says &quot;I’m also a believer in intuitive eating. Eat what feels right for you at the moment, and let the rest take care of itself.&quot;: That doesn&#039;t always work. Intuitive eating can be just as much of a &#039;what you should do&#039; trap as dieting or HAES can.

Personally, I&#039;m currently trying to work out some ideas about the &#039;obligation to be healthy&#039; that I feel pressured about from many sides. Relatives, doctors, strangers on the street... maybe it&#039;ll turn into a blog post one of these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As someone who has several chronic conditions (although none that place me in any of the classic disabled groups, at least yet), I&#8217;ve been struggling to deal with the question of how to reconcile HAES with the fact that I&#8217;ll never be &#8220;healthy&#8221;. This post at mouthfeel I found interesting and possibly helpful: (<a href="http://peggynature.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/tools-vs-intentions-in-health-at-every-size/" rel="nofollow">http://peggynature.wordpress.com/2008/07/13/tools-vs-intentions-in-health-at-every-size/</a>).</p>
<p>For me, giving my body what it wants at the moment can be disastrous. For example, I often crave potato chips, but I now know that if I actually EAT the potato chips, it causes me more grief than it&#8217;s worth. So for the person who says &#8220;I’m also a believer in intuitive eating. Eat what feels right for you at the moment, and let the rest take care of itself.&#8221;: That doesn&#8217;t always work. Intuitive eating can be just as much of a &#8216;what you should do&#8217; trap as dieting or HAES can.</p>
<p>Personally, I&#8217;m currently trying to work out some ideas about the &#8216;obligation to be healthy&#8217; that I feel pressured about from many sides. Relatives, doctors, strangers on the street&#8230; maybe it&#8217;ll turn into a blog post one of these days.</p>
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		<title>By: jessilikewhoa</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/#comment-195551</link>
		<dc:creator>jessilikewhoa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 07:25:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7813#comment-195551</guid>
		<description>luna, they don&#039;t like the fat girl smoking the cigarette either. im pretty certain they look at me and see a giant exploding heart instead of a person.

what they dont kno is that im a strict vegetarian who only eats natural foods, so my heart is probably healthier then theirs, and that im trying to quit smoking (for the 4th time, fucking cigarettes).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>luna, they don&#8217;t like the fat girl smoking the cigarette either. im pretty certain they look at me and see a giant exploding heart instead of a person.</p>
<p>what they dont kno is that im a strict vegetarian who only eats natural foods, so my heart is probably healthier then theirs, and that im trying to quit smoking (for the 4th time, fucking cigarettes).</p>
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		<title>By: Luna</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/#comment-195499</link>
		<dc:creator>Luna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 03:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7813#comment-195499</guid>
		<description>I guess what it boils down to for me is that I am not merely my body. I live in it, but it is not the sum of *me*. I have a fat body. It&#039;s kinda like having a messy house. You don&#039;t get to come to my house and dick me out for not taking care of it. There may or may not be valid reasons for the mess. It&#039;s irrelevant. You still don&#039;t get to come in my house and tell me how much I suck for having a messy house. It&#039;s not a perfect analogy, but for the most part, it works for me.

I don&#039;t know why people are so anti-fat. It&#039;s not health, that&#039;s for sure. They use it as an excuse, to be sure, but you don&#039;t see those same people berating smokers, or wandering into Tim Hortons and lecturing people with doughnuts. But watch them sneer at (or even snark at) the fat girl eating the doughnut. 

I think it has to do with controlling women. Men get a bit of it from the more hardcore haters, but women get the brunt of it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess what it boils down to for me is that I am not merely my body. I live in it, but it is not the sum of *me*. I have a fat body. It&#8217;s kinda like having a messy house. You don&#8217;t get to come to my house and dick me out for not taking care of it. There may or may not be valid reasons for the mess. It&#8217;s irrelevant. You still don&#8217;t get to come in my house and tell me how much I suck for having a messy house. It&#8217;s not a perfect analogy, but for the most part, it works for me.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know why people are so anti-fat. It&#8217;s not health, that&#8217;s for sure. They use it as an excuse, to be sure, but you don&#8217;t see those same people berating smokers, or wandering into Tim Hortons and lecturing people with doughnuts. But watch them sneer at (or even snark at) the fat girl eating the doughnut. </p>
<p>I think it has to do with controlling women. Men get a bit of it from the more hardcore haters, but women get the brunt of it.</p>
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		<title>By: Esra</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/#comment-195473</link>
		<dc:creator>Esra</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 01:25:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7813#comment-195473</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;I was just trying to show that for some FA advocates, eating healthfully means thinking about food choice, but doesn’t mean eating low calorie or (necessarily) according to society’s conception of what healthy means.&lt;/i&gt;

This is what I also think of as eating healthfully. If you work in intuition (which I do), then it would be a pretty solid way to live. As someone with dietary issues (I have crohn&#039;s and b12 def anemia), listening to my body when it says &quot;I need fruit&quot; or &quot;salt!!!111onez!&quot; is essential to feeling alright.

We&#039;re taught from such a young age not to trust our intuition in a lot of ways and I know I had to train myself to stop thinking of food in terms of &#039;good&#039; or &#039;bad&#039; in order to maximize my healthiness and wellbeing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>I was just trying to show that for some FA advocates, eating healthfully means thinking about food choice, but doesn’t mean eating low calorie or (necessarily) according to society’s conception of what healthy means.</i></p>
<p>This is what I also think of as eating healthfully. If you work in intuition (which I do), then it would be a pretty solid way to live. As someone with dietary issues (I have crohn&#8217;s and b12 def anemia), listening to my body when it says &#8220;I need fruit&#8221; or &#8220;salt!!!111onez!&#8221; is essential to feeling alright.</p>
<p>We&#8217;re taught from such a young age not to trust our intuition in a lot of ways and I know I had to train myself to stop thinking of food in terms of &#8216;good&#8217; or &#8216;bad&#8217; in order to maximize my healthiness and wellbeing.</p>
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		<title>By: romham</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/08/06/airing-of-grievances/#comment-195438</link>
		<dc:creator>romham</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 06 Aug 2008 23:54:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=7813#comment-195438</guid>
		<description>oops...i was actually responding to both DEAF FEMINIST PUNK!!! in comment #6 and OTM in comment #9, not to your post specifically. i totally get that fat doesnt automatically equal disabled, but it seems messed up to claim the 2 arent/couldnt possibly be (OH NOES!!!) not only intimately connected, but also synonymous, for *some* folks. 
this whole thing-A-could/should-never-be-for-anyone!!!
is just bunk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>oops&#8230;i was actually responding to both DEAF FEMINIST PUNK!!! in comment #6 and OTM in comment #9, not to your post specifically. i totally get that fat doesnt automatically equal disabled, but it seems messed up to claim the 2 arent/couldnt possibly be (OH NOES!!!) not only intimately connected, but also synonymous, for *some* folks.<br />
this whole thing-A-could/should-never-be-for-anyone!!!<br />
is just bunk.</p>
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