Safe, pro-feminist discussion is important to us. We will delete comments that are abusive, off-topic, or include ad hominem attacks. Foul language is not offensive to us unless it is used as a weapon against a writer or commenter. Because we value our community and will work to protect that community, sometimes we will delete comments that we believe to be harmful or trolling.
Each blogger retains control over the comments on their own posts, particularly negative and incendiary comments.
WE RETAIN THE RIGHT TO:
1. Control content and comments.
2. Edit comments.
Please use HTML to post links that are relevant to conversation. Posting a long link breaks the template and is irritating to the webmistresses.
3. Delete comments.
If they meet the criteria for deletion, we will not hesitate to delete such comments.
4. Prevent comments by specific persons or groups.
We will do what is possible to prevent publishing comments that are racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic, or transphobic. Controversy is not scary to us, but we do aim to create a space that is safe for the expression of pro-feminist ideas.
5. Make some posts feminist-only, or exclude certain types of comments.
GUEST BLOGGERS
Feministe, as part of a site tradition that aims to share the public platform and give readers a taste of our favorite writers and issues, frequently hands the keys to the site over to guest bloggers, often during the summer months. Our guest bloggers are chosen by the Feministe crew and approved by all of the regular writers. We expect all commenters to respect our guests as they would the house writers.
Moreover, we invite all the folks to come along with us because we are their fans and supporters, and because we’re interested in the kind of discussion that their ideas will inspire. While we are very much their fans, that does not mean that we endorse every minute detail of their opinions, much like Jill can disagree with Cara, Holly can disagree with Lauren, and Piny can disagree with Jack. This kind of ideological diversity is a feature of having a group blog, not a bug. Moreover, this kind of diversity is more representative of our feminisms than vetting one another’s writing for cohesion. Our guest bloggers write and publish posts without any kind of editorial review, but with our express support.
As writers, we don’t expect to please everyone, but we do expect that criticism will be hewn to the opinion being criticized and not veer into the likeability of the person expressing it. We will attempt to warn those who are getting into this territory before moderating their comments.
FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS
I posted a comment. Why can’t I see it on the site?
As the site has grown, so has the volume of comments. We have difficulty approving the comments fast enough (we also work day jobs), so provided your comment is not abusive or off-topic, it will appear as soon as one of us gets to it.
Why am I blocked from commenting on Feministe?
There are a few reasons a comment might be blocked.
1. If a comment is abusive, off-topic, includes an ad hominem attack, or is otherwise argued in bad faith.
2. If a commenter has previously posted comments that are abusive, off-topic, or include ad hominem attacks, the Feministe moderators may decide to ban the commenter’s IP address. The abusive commenter is banned from commenting on the site in the future without moderation, even if the later comments are not abusive. We ban or moderate IPs because it is too time consuming to pick out comments written by someone with a pattern of abuse.
3. If you share a computer or IP address with someone who has written abusive comments, your comment may be blocked even if you have never written anything abusive.
4. If your comment has inadvertently been caught in the spam filter, which may occur if you use a term that is commonly associated with spam.
5. We believe you may be sock-puppeting.
WE VALUE diversity of opinions and we welcome dissent, but our primary goal is to foster a dynamic feminist community. In that spirit, we ask that all commenters post in good faith, and that conservative or non-feminist commenters keep in mind that they are in our house and should behave accordingly. We will use our discretion in determining which comments are posted.
It makes me sad that it has come to you guys actually having to post this on your site…makes me think that for all the third wavers that complain that second waves don’t appreciate the changes we’ve made need to take a hard look at ourselves
So, is there a simply way to say how to post a link under these rules? B/c I suck at tech things, and don’t remember HTML. Many apologies for my suckitude, of course.
Miss Kate:
Heh. I know. We tried desperately to get the comment tags working again and just can’t do it. Links are really easy to make once you know how to make them. Google is your friend! I learned 100% of my web design thanks to a book called “Learn HTML In Seven Days or Less” and Google herself.
W3Schools is always a good reference; here is the page on links.
Now, I hope I didn’t mess that up, or I’ll look like an idiot. :(
Man, you paranoid ‘n shit.
We will do what is possible to prevent publishing comments that are racist, sexist, homophobic, or transphobic.
You know something, I hate to have to say this, and I cannot wait until the day comes when it is unthinkable to post a list like this that doesn’t include comments that are biased against people with disabilities. Until that time, until feminist and other progressive blogs add “ableist” to the list of “types of comments that are unacceptable in a feminist or progressive space,” your list is incomplete.
I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been disturbed, disappointed, and infuriated by the flagrant ableism shown by commenters here, by the outright refusal to listen to the voices of PWD on the part of commenters here.
Please, I’m asking you – the bloggers here do a good job of being allies to PWD, and ableism should be something that y’all can agree will make a “feminist” space unsafe for PWD who happen to be feminists.
Rachel, I have no problem adding ableist to the list. In fact, I’ll do that now.
BTW, we’re looking for some input here if we can fold it into the policy. Feel free to critique.
Yup. If there’s something I’ve learned from tweaking my own comment policy at my other blog, it’s that no matter how hard you try — and in this case how many heads you put together — something will get left out. I’m sorry Rachel that we didn’t catch ableist on our own, but I’m glad you spoke up and that it’s in there now.
Norbizness, I’m not getting this particular Sifl n’ Olly reference, but I’m loving it.
I’m for anything with handpuppets.
Thanks Lauren and Cara – I really appreciate it.
So, is there a simply way to say how to post a link under these rules? B/c I suck at tech things, and don’t remember HTML. Many apologies for my suckitude, of course.
<a href=”URL_HERE”>link text</a>
I would have thought you all had been around the internet long enough to know that IP banning is ineffective. You can change your IP simply by moving from Starbucks to Arbys.
Must have been a huge kerfuffle, I am sorry that you guys had to do this. It’s a shame that people can’t respect others.
At the risk of scooping Norb (bwahahaha, Norb) allow me to quote the Feministe New Comment Policy:
There are a few reasons a comment might be blocked…
5. We believe you may be sock-puppeting.
Don’t worry, it took me a minute to figure it out too.
I have to say I feel really mixed about this. I do understand where you guys are coming from– I recently added a comment policy on my blog as well, but this veers dangerously close to thought-control territory (especially numbers 3 and 4).
I fully appreciate that your blog is far larger than mine and you surely receive hateful, vacuous comments so often that you are compelled to take a stand, but in even providing a space for readers to comment, trolling must be regarded as an inevitability.
Most importantly, as a devoted reader, I feel this kind of policy deflates the purpose of my reading comments threads knowing that certain voices (even the ignorant and hateful ones) have been silenced.
You implement this policy in order to keep Feministe a “safe space” for pro-feminist ideas, which is a commendable aim, but I wonder by whose standards this is decided? I think we will generally agree what trolling looks like, but what about passionately expressed dissent on “core issues” such as (for example) the still contested existence of date rape? I’m not arguing, nor do I believe that it doesn’t exist, but there are many who question it and perhaps feel that a focus on date rape weakens the case for instances of “real rape”. Is this the kind of view that would be deleted?
Feminist ideas are always a target for brutish attack, but I have seen some feminist groups defend against attack by becoming dogmatic and closed-minded. One think I like about Feministe is the open sharing of ideas on your space (especially with the help of wonderful guest bloggers), and I’d hate to see this compromised by the implications of this comment policy.
The ideological stance reflected here is troubling and often leads to further control over time.
So there it is—my concerns.
Well, Lauren, at least you tried.
The long version:
The existence and importance of date rape is contested at the same level as the existence of global warming as a human-generated ecological catastrophe in the making–or, perhaps, the inclusion of water torture in torture.
If you believe that it’s rape when someone is forced to have sex, then you agree that date rape is rape. If you believe that being forced to have sex is extremely traumatic, then you agree that date rape counts as “real rape.” If you believe that women should be able to date without worrying that some nice young man will rape or assault them with impunity, then you believe that date rape is an important issue.
I see no point whatsoever in talking to people who think that coercion and force don’t count when the rapist asks you out first, or people who believe that violation is only brutalizing when the rapist isn’t someone you first met as a friend or boyfriend. That’s not a controversy within feminism, because you need to not care about women and harms done to women in order to feel this way about date rape and “real rape.”
In other words, this is a perfect example of a comment that should not be approved, written by an apologist for comments that should never be approved.
“So, is there a simply way to say how to post a link under these rules?”
Yes – use the Firefox Text Formatting Toolbar Extension. (I’ve written a very brief guide to it here.)
“but this veers dangerously close to thought-control territory (especially numbers 3 and 4).”
Except that it doesn’t, unless your brain works in a very unusual way. You can think whatever you like, and the owners of this space can agree or refuse to publish it in their space. If you’d like it published, http://www.wordpress.com is your friend.
“I have no problem adding ableist to the list.”
How about ageism as well?
I’m a little confused as to how numbers 3 and 4 are “thought control.” Comments going to the spam queue and shared IP addresses are technical issues beyond our control. They reflect the reality of our comments section, not a desire to censor people. We could get rid of our spam queue, but considering that we receive close to 1,000 spam comments every week, that would basically shut down the comments section. Having a few legitimate comments get caught in the spam queue is a trade-off that we have to make (and I do regularly comb the spam queue and clear out legit comments, so it’s rare that they get totally deleted; it just may take a few hours for them to go up). So it’s not about controlling anyone’s thoughts or words. It’s about the necessary tools that we use to keep the blog running. Maybe you could clarify what you meant, because I’m honestly not getting it.
We will continue to allow all sorts of dissent on this blog. The comment policy is more a reflection of what we’re already doing rather than some sort of new plan. We get a long of emails complaining about comments getting deleted, so we figured we might as well spell out the rules that we’ve been playing by all along. So the dynamic of the comment sections won’t change all that much; the main difference is that the commentariat will now know what the guidelines are.
Comment policies are tricky things. We don’t want Feministe to be an echo chamber, and have no desire to write a comment policy or run a blog that will only let through comments that agree with us. However, letting comments go unmoderated is cyanide in a feminist space. We value our community and our regular readers and commenters more than we value the “rights” of trolls, anti-choicers, rape apologists, and anti-feminists to spew whatever they feel like spewing. When the comments to every post turn into huge troll-fights, it dumbs down the level of conversation and makes the blog less interesting and compelling to those of us (including its authors) who read it as a place to share ideas and learn. We are here for positive and constructive debate, not bickering with people who have little more to say than “ABORTION IS MURDER!” and “Date rape doesn’t exist.” Blogs will comment sections full of bile are not blogs that I enjoy reading; they certainly aren’t the kind of blog that I want to run. Comment sections that are all-out wars with anti-feminists drive off good, pro-feminist commenters. And so we will continue to let contrarian, good-faith comments through, while filtering out bad-faith, attacking and trolling comments.
And what Piny said about the date rape issue.
Sure, but most people post from home or work, so it ends up working pretty well in the majority of cases.
Whoops, ignore my first comment. I see you’re talking about the first #3 and 4, about deleting comments that violate our policy. So as a response to that: It’s hardly “thought control” to disallow certain views on one website on a big internets. We aren’t making laws that certain ideas cannot be expressed; we aren’t penalizing people for holding certain views. We are saying that in this particular space, there is a certain dynamic that we want to foster. We would literally be over-run with trolls saying all sorts of ugly things if we just let the comment section be a free-for-all. Ever read Free Republic comment sections? Well, dudes like that love to troll feminist blogs and leave all sorts of ugly, off-topic, and offensive comments. There’s absolutely no point in putting those up; it adds nothing, and takes away a lot. They can create their own blogs, or post in anti-feminist spaces, or call into Rush Limbaugh, or express their views through a whole variety of other means. Disallowing certain types of comments on one single blog is not thought control or censorship; it’s a necessary requirement of running a large feminist space and still maintaining some sense of community. As I said in my above comment, allowing Feministe to become a free-for-all would drive away many of our community members, readers and regular commenters. That isn’t a price we’re willing to pay in order to let some anti-feminist fuckwad spew.
And cue Stalin references by concern trolls in 3. . .2. . .1. . .
Pop Feminist, there are plenty of spaces where the validity of recognizing date rape as “real” rape is debated. There are also spaces where the validity of the 19th Amendment is debated, with very reasonable-sounding rhetoric. Frankly, anything can be debated, but given 1) the growth in population of wankers with time on their hands (i.e. trolls) and 2) the already epic proportions that bigoted and ludicrous opinions have come to be accepted in the general public thanks to this “golly, every view is valid and we should never shut this crap down” sentiment, I’m unsympathetic to the overwrought “thought control” rhetoric.
IOW, it’s not a blog owner’s job to legitimize opposing opinions of bigots. I’ve been to those blogs, and a lot of commenters who added much to the discussion stopped going when they had to continually go over basic crap with trolls, who were coddled and babied by the blog owners.
Lauren, Jill, and Piny–I’m glad you made this policy crystal clear.
Wow! I’m really surprised by piny’s response! I made sure to point out that “I’m not arguing, nor do I believe that [date rape] doesn’t exist”, I was merely using an example to illustrate and argument. What you said about date rape is how I respond to the same issue.
By merely mentioning the fact that some self-identified feminist don’t believe in date rape, you think my comment should be deleted?
“this is a perfect example of a comment that should not be approved, written by an apologist for comments that should never be approved.”
I don’t know what to say! What a terrifying response to a perfectly friendly and carefully worded expression of concern!
Seelzebub: “Pop Feminist, there are plenty of spaces where the validity of recognizing date rape as “real” rape is debated. ”
Thanks, but I’m not interested in that discussion. Again, I was merely using an example not expressing my beliefs.
Do you really believe my feelings expressed were overwrought “thought control” rhetoric? I said “this veers dangerously close to thought-control territory”. Which is in no way a condemnation of the proposed policy.
I’m shocked by the responses above. I hadn’t expected that a sympathetic expression of my worries would be treated with such contempt and twisted to condemn me on a political standpoint I did not express nor do I hold.
@Pop Feminist –
Let me try explaining this a different way. (I am not a regular Feministe contributor, but I run a heavily moderated blog.)
There have been times, in the quest to have an interesting and thorough conversation with a lot of different viewpoints, that I have had people come away with the impression that my blog was not a safe space for them to speak.
My thought process, at the time, was that since we bring so many people from different racial/ethnic groups on my site, that people need to challenge each other and work through problems that way. That works okay, but it isn’t always the solution.
For my blog, specifically, people who identify as multiracial started feeling unable to comment in my space because people from certain ethnic groups would minimize their experiences. This saddened me, because our blog legacy was to provide a space to explore representations of mixed people and interracial relationships in the media. I had long time readers vanish from the blog, or send emails, or post comments about how they no longer feel this space is for them. But I waited too long to deal with the problem. So I lost quite a few voices I really liked because I did not protect them from someone else’s ignorance.
And might I mention, allowed someone else who is not invested in the cause that my blog is here to promote to continue to voice their opinion to the detriment of my commenters who wanted to have a conversation about these issues.
Now, I get complaints every single day about the content of the blog, and I’m generally a bitch to these complainers – my blog is not going to be everything to everyone, and I will run it as I see fit. If you feel like my blog doesn’t serve you, you hate the comment mod policy, you disagree with me talking about religious issues on a race blog, fine – kick, push, coast. We aren’t the only space on the internet.
But when people I like, and want to see on the blog start echoing disappointment, or start vanishing, that’s when I take note.
That’s also generally when I edit my comment policy.
Latoya-
Thank you for this thoughtful response. I, too, have a comment policy on my blog. I sympathize with your position and have found myself to be in the same difficult spot before.
My worries do not stem from a lack of understanding.
Racialicious happens to be one of the best online and I encourage you continue to do everything in your power to maintain its notable integrity and legacy of open but safe discussion.
I feel that any “comment policy” walks a delicate line, and though that doesn’t negate its purpose, we should tread carefully and generously in enforcement. I had merely hoped to express my feelings about the difficulties of maintaining a comment policy.
Feministe is in a special position because it casts its net wide in mission, bringing in points of view from a variety of different feminist groups and thinkers. The above policy, while, again, I understand it, read to me as potentially too far reaching for so diverse a blog space.
I recognize that what matters is not how the policy is worded but how it is implemented. I’m reeling from piny’s suggesting that my comment should have been deleted– this is the kind of abuse I fear. I know piny isn’t a feministe editor, but I hope her view that the mere mention of the existence of controversial and upsetting positions of some groups should be censored, is not shared by moderators on this blog.
Again, thanks Latoya for your comment and for Racialicious. I hope that my intention in expressing concern is clear to you and the editors at Feministe.
Pop Feminist, you know that I greatly respect you and your views, but I do really disagree with your comments here. But to answer a question:
I’m not arguing, nor do I believe that it doesn’t exist, but there are many who question it and perhaps feel that a focus on date rape weakens the case for instances of “real rape”. Is this the kind of view that would be deleted?
By me? Yes. Without hesitation.
Why? Because as a survivor rape that would probably fall under “date rape,” I can get that kind of hate anywhere, it’s NOT going to appear on my blog — ever — and it’s not going to be there to upset the many other readers who are in the same boat. I’ve got a pretty thick skin at this point. Not everyone does. And I’ll be damned if this blog or any blog I write on will be place where commenters can purposely trigger survivors. And yes, saying that date rape does not exist does intentionally trigger survivors, if you cared about the survivors of date rape, you (the imaginary commenter) wouldn’t say that shit.
And I’m also not afraid to say that it is my personal view that anyone who is a rape denier or apologist is NOT a feminist and will never be recognized as such by me.
If that is thought control, then fine, sign me up on the thought control train.
But I don’t think it is. The internet is a big space. Anyone can start a blog. We have our own. We are not obligated to share it will assholes, regardless of whether or not they claim they are “feminists.”
And piny absolutely is a Feminist editor.
And let me add that because I know you, I do understand your intention. But I think we’ve had a conversation along these lines before, about what does and does not constitute pro-feminist speech, and I don’t see it as an area we will agree on anytime soon. So I don’t think that you’re trying to be an asshole or anything. I just very strongly disagree with you and hope that you, and other commenters, will accept that we put the rules in place for a reason, and that includes among many other things our own mental health and the comfort of our readers.
@Pop Feminist –
Like I said, I get complaints every day about Racialicious.
(And a funny thing – now people are writing in saying things like “I am so pissed at your stupid comment policy, but I am going to keep reading – but only because it’s a great blog, not because of YOU.” Oh, yeah, you really got me there.)
The issue of any moderator of a large-ish blog (I don’t know Feministe’s stats, and my own are on the small side as compared to blogs like Jezebel), in my opinion, ultimately comes down to trust. How much do the commenters trust me to protect them? How much do I trust my commenters to be genuinely pursuing conversation, instead of being disruptive? It’s a hard decision, and one that we as mods don’t take lightly.
I can’t speak for Feministe, but Carmen & I recently talked over how we were changing our comment policy to be more unilateral. (Inspired by Kate Harding’s impassioned “pain behind *my* right eye” post.) Essentially, we were pulled a Cartman and was like “Respect our author-i-tie!” So we reserve the right to delete whatever the hell we want, at any time.
But.
As a mod, doing so is often a nerve wracking experience. I’ve had to delete comments by people I like, have arguments with regular posters over their bigotry, make judgment calls on comments that could really swing either way.
Some commenters read to me as trolls, even when they are making a good point. But they are making a point and working my nerves, which is not good for the blog overall, because then *I* am acting out. What do we do then?
If I delete your comment irritating me, but don’t ban you, to me, that’s a statement of faith. I hate what you are saying now, but I still respect your voice.
And no one said this is a science. A lot of times, you can only go by what people type. So if someone gets smart with me, I ban them – I just assume that they care more about being right than contributing to the conversation. Some people don’t like that, and I am ok with this. My goal is not quantity, my goal is quality of the conversation. There have been times when I went against my first judgment of a troll and decided to let them speak. Sometimes, it works out great, and this person turns out to be a great addition to our site. Sometimes, they really are a fucking troll, and I gave myself three new headaches for no reason.
It all just depends. I understand your concerns as well, but at the end of the day, blog admins decide what is best. Our site is hostile to people who are anti-Islam (though we are not hostile to atheists who aren’t assholes.) I’m fine with that. Our site is hostile to sexist men of all races. Fine with that. Some have proposed that our site is hostile to whites, and I am fine with that as well, because I know what space I am trying to create. Every blog owner has to come to that decision, and everyone has different goals.
Specifically re, these two rules though:
3. If you share a computer or IP address with someone who has written abusive comments, your comment may be blocked even if you have never written anything abusive.
That one is hard to get around. It sucks for the person sharing a computer or IP address, but it is effective against about 90% of the assholes who, upon figuring out they are banned, just switch their user name and email. We can only keep track of so many people. IP banning makes it easier, though not foolproof.
4. If your comment has inadvertently been caught in the spam filter, which may occur if you use a term that is commonly associated with spam.
Again, one of the unavoidables. I check my SPAM filter religiously, looking for any salvageable comment, but sometimes that doesn’t happen. Like when I wake up in the morning and there are 24 pages of SPAM comments to sort through. Sorry – judgment call for my sanity. If I am worried about a comment being lost, I normally copy it and send an email to the blog admin if it hasn’t been approved in a while.
But I don’t see sections three and four as an expression of malice, but rather, the cost of doing business with limited time and resources.
“And piny absolutely is a Feminist editor.”
-ack!
Date-rape came to my mind for the sake of this argument because that’s the position of loathed self-proclaimed feminist Camille Paglia (a woman you and I have discussed before), whose exclusion from feminist discussions has been a controversial for the length of her career. It seemed to me a good example of the difficulties of defining what counts as feminist. I know this is a sensitive issue, and perhaps I would’ve been better served to bring up…say, the controversial existence of “feminist pornography”, but I’m merely trying to illustrate a point–nothing more.
“don’t think that you’re trying to be an asshole or anything”
Ha! I hope not! I think I’m being very level-headed here!
Thanks for your comments Cara. I know you are certain that you and I won’t agree on this or other issues, but I think we agree more than you realize. I really believe in the work you do especially and hate to see positive writing online compromised by either ignorant, misogynist trolling or (the opposite extreme) self-cannibalizing dogmatism. That not to say that’s what this comment policy IS, just (again) expressing —-concern —-regarding ANY comment policy on so large and far reaching a blog.
I may assume devil’s advocate position often, but I do really understand and often agree with you point of view.
Latoya–
Thanks again for your reponse. I was expressing concern with #3 and #4, from “We Retain the Right to:
3. Delete comments.
If they meet the criteria for deletion, we will not hesitate to delete such comments.
4. Prevent comments by specific persons or groups.
We will do what is possible to prevent publishing comments that are racist, sexist, ableist, homophobic, or transphobic. Controversy is not scary to us, but we do aim to create a space that is safe for the expression of pro-feminist ideas.
and also 5:
5. Make some posts feminist-only, or exclude certain types of comments.
I agree with you and the #s 3 and 4 you noted!
Thanks Pop Feminist.
I’d also like to add that there is nothing in this comment policy which we have not already been practicing, and have not already voiced in various posts. Jill especially has gone over this numerous times. It’s the fact that we had to keep going over it that we felt (and I was one of the biggest proponents behind the idea) it needed to go officially in writing. It’s easier to enforce a comment policy when you can point to it. Also, I think it helps to let people know that we’re serious.
But I don’t think there’s actually a word in here that could be genuinely considered new. This policy has been “unofficially” in place for much longer than I’ve been with the blog!
Lauredhel,
You are awesome! Thank you for the toolbar thingy.
I think this kind of policy is a necessity for larger blogs and ones that deal with these particular types of issues.
As Latoya said (I am a regular Racialicious reader) they have a very strict comment policy, but I don’t believe I have ever seen a thread there where a valid dicussion was stifled in any way by their policy.
I don’t think Feministe is getting rid of anyone who disagrees, just clearing out the crap so that those who really do want a discussion can have it.
It was a very carefully and thoughtfully worded policy, and I hope that people don’t get too bent out of shape over it.
Good work Feministers!
But I don’t think there’s actually a word in here that could be genuinely considered new. This policy has been “unofficially” in place for much longer than I’ve been with the blog!
-Fair enough!
Jed brought up ableist above, but I think it was lost in the debate about the lines being drawn around rape, so I’m bringing it up again. I’d like to see ageism, both dismissal of people because they are presumed to be “old and out of touch” or “old and conservative” and dismissal of people because they are presumed to be “young and ignorant” or “young and run by their hormones”.
I know this may fall under the “ad hominem is bayud, mmmmkay” rule, but having it explicitely added to the list of “don’t do these things” would be appreciated.
Gah, my brain is out of order.
Please substitute “ageist” for the first “ableist”. Sorry!