Comments on: And speaking of taking religion out of the public sphere… http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/ In defense of the sanctimonious women's studies set. Sun, 21 Mar 2010 16:19:32 +0000 hourly 1 By: . » Defense! Pt. 1: Fight the Lies http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/#comment-211446 . » Defense! Pt. 1: Fight the Lies Wed, 19 Nov 2008 17:28:14 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=8229#comment-211446 [...] I get into talking about actual self-defense, I want to address a post I read back in September on a popular feminist blog. Maria Goretti is a Catholic martyr, who was killed by [...] [...] I get into talking about actual self-defense, I want to address a post I read back in September on a popular feminist blog. Maria Goretti is a Catholic martyr, who was killed by [...]

]]> By: Emily http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/#comment-204290 Emily Tue, 23 Sep 2008 18:05:21 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=8229#comment-204290 Hey Kim? I spent years in an ultra-Catholic environment and am understandably quite sick of it. You're on my turf now--a feminist one. If I'm bitter, it's reasonably so-- because of people like you who denigrate women, normal women, and uphold those who insist death is preferable to losing their virginity. What's unfeminist, to Blaise Alleyne, is to twist and pervert the story of a poor 12 year old girl and hold it over young girls, rape survivors, and even teenage boys, I suppose, heads. I'm not ignorant, my dear Kim. I'm fed up. Hey Kim? I spent years in an ultra-Catholic environment and am understandably quite sick of it. You’re on my turf now–a feminist one. If I’m bitter, it’s reasonably so– because of people like you who denigrate women, normal women, and uphold those who insist death is preferable to losing their virginity. What’s unfeminist, to Blaise Alleyne, is to twist and pervert the story of a poor 12 year old girl and hold it over young girls, rape survivors, and even teenage boys, I suppose, heads.

I’m not ignorant, my dear Kim. I’m fed up.

]]> By: Kim http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/#comment-204273 Kim Tue, 23 Sep 2008 15:28:44 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=8229#comment-204273 Emily, listen to yourself- you are so unreasonably bitter. Why? The statement "Better dead than raped," means nothing to this story! It has absolutely nothing to do with why she is a Saint or with the moral of the whole story. There is not Catholic out there that agrees with that statement - accept maybe a woman like Maria who believes it is God's will for her to remain a virgin (and she accepts God's will and has faith) - or besides this maybe some whacked-out extremist - but for ALL the rest of us - "Better dead than raped" is ridiculous! I would suggest refraining from talking about it any longer until you overcome your ignorance - it really just makes you look bad. Blaise Alleyne, great post! Emily, listen to yourself- you are so unreasonably bitter. Why? The statement “Better dead than raped,” means nothing to this story! It has absolutely nothing to do with why she is a Saint or with the moral of the whole story.

There is not Catholic out there that agrees with that statement – accept maybe a woman like Maria who believes it is God’s will for her to remain a virgin (and she accepts God’s will and has faith) – or besides this maybe some whacked-out extremist – but for ALL the rest of us – “Better dead than raped” is ridiculous!

I would suggest refraining from talking about it any longer until you overcome your ignorance – it really just makes you look bad.

Blaise Alleyne, great post!

]]> By: Emily http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/#comment-204216 Emily Tue, 23 Sep 2008 03:20:14 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=8229#comment-204216 I cannot believe I missed this when you first posted it, Jill! The story of Maria Goretti seriously makes me nauseous...and for that matter, so does Gianna Molla (thanks for pointing that out, Ophelia). No matter what the church apologists says, their actions, and those of their people, speak louder than any words: better a dead woman (or child!) than a sexually "compromised" one, whether the compromised comes from doing whatever it might take to survive a rape, or doing whatever it might take to save your own life (Molla left behind other children. So, so sad.) And in reference to what Bella said: "Better dead than raped. Awesome. There’s a reason I’m no longer a Catholic." Soooooooo right there with you. And for a multitude of other reasons! I cannot believe I missed this when you first posted it, Jill! The story of Maria Goretti seriously makes me nauseous…and for that matter, so does Gianna Molla (thanks for pointing that out, Ophelia). No matter what the church apologists says, their actions, and those of their people, speak louder than any words: better a dead woman (or child!) than a sexually “compromised” one, whether the compromised comes from doing whatever it might take to survive a rape, or doing whatever it might take to save your own life (Molla left behind other children. So, so sad.)

And in reference to what Bella said: “Better dead than raped. Awesome. There’s a reason I’m no longer a Catholic.” Soooooooo right there with you. And for a multitude of other reasons!

]]> By: Blaise Alleyne http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/#comment-203715 Blaise Alleyne Fri, 19 Sep 2008 23:20:08 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=8229#comment-203715 I don't profess to be an expert on St. Maria Goretti, but this discussion seems to be missing a few basic points, at least from my perspective. What was exemplary was that she stood up and said no. No, I won't let you violate me. No, it's my body, you have no right to it and I'm not afraid to tell you that. How is that anti-feminist? The fact that she stood no chance against her attacker is tragic, it's what makes her a martyr. But, were she to not have resisted, she wouldn't have been a saint, but nor could she be held responsible for the actions of her assailant. Either way, she didn't stand a chance. It's her courage in the situation that was noted. I don't understand where the "better dead than not a virgin" came from. Where's the "better off dead"? She's a saint because, in the face of grave danger, she stood up for her beliefs. And, you know, against someone trying to rape her. I guess it's unfeminist not to submit to rapists? I don’t profess to be an expert on St. Maria Goretti, but this discussion seems to be missing a few basic points, at least from my perspective.

What was exemplary was that she stood up and said no. No, I won’t let you violate me. No, it’s my body, you have no right to it and I’m not afraid to tell you that. How is that anti-feminist?

The fact that she stood no chance against her attacker is tragic, it’s what makes her a martyr.

But, were she to not have resisted, she wouldn’t have been a saint, but nor could she be held responsible for the actions of her assailant. Either way, she didn’t stand a chance. It’s her courage in the situation that was noted.

I don’t understand where the “better dead than not a virgin” came from. Where’s the “better off dead”?

She’s a saint because, in the face of grave danger, she stood up for her beliefs. And, you know, against someone trying to rape her.

I guess it’s unfeminist not to submit to rapists?

]]> By: Kim http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/#comment-203478 Kim Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:34:16 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=8229#comment-203478 Catholics DO pray to saints because they take our prayers to God. For example, if someone dies in a Protestant church - is it natural for the family of that person to ask the other members of the church to pray for them? You hear that all the time, "Please keep us in your prayers," or "I'm going through a hard time, please pray for me." Someone else is talking to God on your behalf. What is wrong with praying to someone that has died, that you are sure is in heaven with God, a "saint", making friends with them and having an advocate in heaven to compliment your own prayers to God. And although the statement that Catholics aren't Christians is almost too ignorant to respond to, I can't help but mention a few facts: That dear Bible you hold in your hands, was put together by the Catholic Church - formed as a guide to say the Holy Mass, not for you to read and interpret as you see fit. Christ was not even a Christian, he was a Jew until the day he died. Jesus handed the keys to his Church, "community", to St. Peter - which started the formation of the Christian faith. Which was called Catholicism for about 1400 years. Then Martin Luther came around to reform the corrupted Catholic Church, the wrong people stepped in and bang, Protestants without a clue. Google it honey, educate yourself before spewing ignorant filth from your fingers or mouth. Catholics DO pray to saints because they take our prayers to God. For example, if someone dies in a Protestant church – is it natural for the family of that person to ask the other members of the church to pray for them? You hear that all the time, “Please keep us in your prayers,” or “I’m going through a hard time, please pray for me.” Someone else is talking to God on your behalf.

What is wrong with praying to someone that has died, that you are sure is in heaven with God, a “saint”, making friends with them and having an advocate in heaven to compliment your own prayers to God.

And although the statement that Catholics aren’t Christians is almost too ignorant to respond to, I can’t help but mention a few facts:

That dear Bible you hold in your hands, was put together by the Catholic Church – formed as a guide to say the Holy Mass, not for you to read and interpret as you see fit.

Christ was not even a Christian, he was a Jew until the day he died. Jesus handed the keys to his Church, “community”, to St. Peter – which started the formation of the Christian faith. Which was called Catholicism for about 1400 years.

Then Martin Luther came around to reform the corrupted Catholic Church, the wrong people stepped in and bang, Protestants without a clue.

Google it honey, educate yourself before spewing ignorant filth from your fingers or mouth.

]]> By: Kim http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/#comment-203474 Kim Thu, 18 Sep 2008 16:15:24 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=8229#comment-203474 Okay, I stumbled upon this blog by accident and could not help but read. Seriously some of you people are very misguided in your thinking. First off, Maria Goretti did not kill herself- she died from the attack on her. Second, she forgave her would-be rapist - which is a very admirable and Christ-like thing to do. I don't think very many people could do that. She was laying they dying, bleeding, gasping for air, however she forgave the man who put her in that state. Third, and the most important point to make, is that St. Maria Goretti defended her purity with her life because it was God's will for her to remain a virgin. The Lord does not expect all woman to take this course of action. The reasoning behind her canonization is NOT that she protected her virginity at all costs because it is better to die that be raped. It is because from a very early age St. Maria Goretti was chosen by God to lead a holy life. If you actually learned her complete story, you would know that she had hopes of becoming a nun and dedicating her life to the Lord. Nuns are the brides of Christ and that is why they remain chaste. For HER, an attack on her virginity was the worst thing that could happen because she valued it in a different way that other people. The story is a positive one for girls because it shows real strength, courage, love, compassion, forgiveness, honor, most importantly dedication to the will of God. You know the traits that the feminists have all decided are weak. I know I am talking to a brick wall here, but I said my peace. Hopefully someone out there will benefit from this truth and at least understand what I'm talking about. Okay, I stumbled upon this blog by accident and could not help but read. Seriously some of you people are very misguided in your thinking.

First off, Maria Goretti did not kill herself- she died from the attack on her.

Second, she forgave her would-be rapist – which is a very admirable and Christ-like thing to do. I don’t think very many people could do that. She was laying they dying, bleeding, gasping for air, however she forgave the man who put her in that state.

Third, and the most important point to make, is that St. Maria Goretti defended her purity with her life because it was God’s will for her to remain a virgin. The Lord does not expect all woman to take this course of action.

The reasoning behind her canonization is NOT that she protected her virginity at all costs because it is better to die that be raped. It is because from a very early age St. Maria Goretti was chosen by God to lead a holy life.

If you actually learned her complete story, you would know that she had hopes of becoming a nun and dedicating her life to the Lord. Nuns are the brides of Christ and that is why they remain chaste. For HER, an attack on her virginity was the worst thing that could happen because she valued it in a different way that other people.

The story is a positive one for girls because it shows real strength, courage, love, compassion, forgiveness, honor, most importantly dedication to the will of God. You know the traits that the feminists have all decided are weak.

I know I am talking to a brick wall here, but I said my peace. Hopefully someone out there will benefit from this truth and at least understand what I’m talking about.

]]> By: scott t buxton http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/#comment-203393 scott t buxton Wed, 17 Sep 2008 17:54:18 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=8229#comment-203393 Ok, well this is an example of church heirarchy getting it wrong. First, catholics are Christians so they should know you don't pray to "saints" or "loved ones" A Christian prays to Jesus Christ as inspired and helped by the Holy Spirit. Many of you should stop scoffing at that notion and actually try it. As for the abstinence part, well sexual promiscuity does come with it's share of problems, but those are personal choices but a close relationship with God does help people make the right choices. As for the forgiveness part, well that's real love. let God judge, of course if you don't believe in God it does open the door to do whatever you want...vigiliantism, hate, immoral and lued behavoir, lack of honor, valueing money and power and status over love, etc, etc, etc,...here's my advice::: stop paying attention to those who "rule" as religious leaders and go ahead and Read and Study The BIBLE yourself...It IS the Word of God....God is and has spoken to you. It is on you, no one else, if you refuse to listen. God bless you and honestly if you have something to say or ask please feel free to email me at asmbuxton17@hotmail.com Ok, well this is an example of church heirarchy getting it wrong. First, catholics are Christians so they should know you don’t pray to “saints” or “loved ones” A Christian prays to Jesus Christ as inspired and helped by the Holy Spirit. Many of you should stop scoffing at that notion and actually try it. As for the abstinence part, well sexual promiscuity does come with it’s share of problems, but those are personal choices but a close relationship with God does help people make the right choices. As for the forgiveness part, well that’s real love. let God judge, of course if you don’t believe in God it does open the door to do whatever you want…vigiliantism, hate, immoral and lued behavoir, lack of honor, valueing money and power and status over love, etc, etc, etc,…here’s my advice:::

stop paying attention to those who “rule” as religious leaders and go ahead and Read and Study The BIBLE yourself…It IS the Word of God….God is and has spoken to you. It is on you, no one else, if you refuse to listen. God bless you and honestly if you have something to say or ask please feel free to email me at asmbuxton17@hotmail.com

]]> By: Abstinence Only Goes Too Far http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/#comment-201955 Abstinence Only Goes Too Far Wed, 10 Sep 2008 16:52:34 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=8229#comment-201955 [...] the Catholic Church has, in the past, canonized 12-year-old girls for choosing death over rape: wow (read another abuse survivor’s commentary). Certainly the idea that purity is more [...] [...] the Catholic Church has, in the past, canonized 12-year-old girls for choosing death over rape: wow (read another abuse survivor’s commentary). Certainly the idea that purity is more [...]

]]> By: I might not be canonized anytime soon, but I survived and I don’t regret it! « Small-Town Elitist http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/09/08/and-speaking-of-taking-religion-out-of-the-public-sphere/#comment-201825 I might not be canonized anytime soon, but I survived and I don’t regret it! « Small-Town Elitist Wed, 10 Sep 2008 02:58:27 +0000 http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=8229#comment-201825 [...] in a post, I guess. I’d rather it not be a heavy topic, but Feministe has a very good post on St. Maria Goretti, and in light of the discussion that is coming up from that post, I’ve decided I would write [...] [...] in a post, I guess. I’d rather it not be a heavy topic, but Feministe has a very good post on St. Maria Goretti, and in light of the discussion that is coming up from that post, I’ve decided I would write [...]

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