Apparently there’s quite a scandal brewing in Southern Baptist circles. Christian bookstores, long the last lines of defense in the culture wars, have been carrying some pretty awful smut on their shelves. The content of this near-pornography is so controversial that it’s kept behind the counter and only available upon request. A cover image of the publication in question is below the fold. Don’t say I didn’t warn you.
Yeah, that’s right: female pastors. Apparently it’s a-ok for a woman to be in the White House (as long as she’s a Republican), but a woman with a direct line to God? Well, that subverts male authority.
Thanks to Josh for the link.
Wow…there are no words…
If I may ask the following potentially provocative question: Does it constitute progress for patriarchal religion to be sold by women in the pulpit? Is it like asking whether it was progress towards feminist goals when Palin got the GOP nod, or whether it represented a move towards tolerance when the Klan began to admit Catholics in the South?
Maybe I am wrong, and am stupidly missing the point.
Haha, I totally thought this was going to be a picture of some girl showing her ankles.
Bruce – I think it’s more like wondering if it’s progress for a woman to become leader of a patriarchal country like the US. There are some feminists who would say no and that instead of going into politics and trying to fix a fundamentally rotten system, energy is better spent tearing the system down and building something better. There are some feminists who would say yes, because it’s evidence that the country is becoming less patriarchal. And there are some who would say yes, if she is a feminist, because then she has the power to change the country into a more egalitarian one; no if she is just going to shill the same old sexist crap. You can say the same thing for woman pastors – sure, you can say the energy of feminist believers in God would be better spent tearing down the patriarchal religions and building something better, but you can also say that woman pastors have the power to work to change the religion to something more egalitarian from within, and that the very fact that congregations are accepting woman pastors shows that those congregations are becoming less patriarchal.
The denominations in which women pastors/priests/presbyters/bishops exist (One of the Lutheran synods, Episcopalians and Presbyterians are the example that come to my mind), women and men are held in equal esteem. Women vote in the church, we’re not told to submit to any earthly being, et cetera.
I’ve been a member of the Lutheran Church (ELCA Synod) my entire life, literally, and not once in twenty-four years have I heart anything from the pulpit or in practice that remotely suggested that women are less than men (or, for that matter, that POC are not welcome, and in recent years we have gotten more explicitly pro-gay). The sermon topics tend to involve discussions of what it actually means to love one’s neighbour, or the meaning of love, or how and when to get off our high horses and be humble.
I have found it to be quite a pleasant experience, and it was always rather jarring in high school to go to church with a friend (Divorce? On Easter?! That happened at a Southern Baptist Church).
In short, in answer to you, Bruce, I don’t think that the denominations with women clergy are selling patriarchal religion with women because I do not think they are selling patriarchal religion. Full disclosure of possible bias: my church’s pastor is a woman, and I’m going to be gay-married next May by a woman presbyter.
Roses: Intelligent answer. thanks.
Ivy, just want to further the discussion of experiences here: I was an active member of a Presbyterian church (PC(USA)) for eight years. PC(USA) is widely considered one of the more liberal denominations, especially in comparison to PCA. My church was in New Jersey, so part of the Northeast Synod, which was considered remarkably progressive because of the inclusion of the New York state Presbyteries.
The senior pastor at the time had been ministering at that church for well over 20 years, and his wife was staunchly anti-woman-in-positions of authority. She was not comfortable with female pastors, or even female elders in the church. Shortly after the senior pastor retired, he was replaced by a female interim pastor. Our congregation split – a faction about the size of a quarter of the total congregation, mainly led by traditional fundamentalist families with husband-as-boss roles in place, left the church simply because of the installment of our interim senior pastor. Pointing out to them that PC(USA) had decided on allowing female pastors decades before was useless.
While I believe that PC(USA) has the best of intentions in allowing female pastors to be ordained and lead congregations, I’m not sure that makes the denomination any less patriarchal. Each denomination is composed of its member congregations, and each congregation is composed of its individual members. If the individual members are not embracing the progressive nature, how progressive can the denomination be?
Roses, great reply.
I would love to have been a (Catholic) priest, specifically a Jesuit. And Jesuits do not even have an order of nuns, unfortunately.
I don’t need people telling me that I “shouldn’t” want that, since that is basically no different than what I have been told my whole life…
Geez, what are the Southern Baptists gonna do when they realize that a *gasp* Jew has a direct line to G-d too?
If I may ask the following potentially provocative question: Does it constitute progress for patriarchal religion to be sold by women in the pulpit?
Yes. These women may not challenge the patriarchal norms of their denominations, but they help make the path easier for younger, more progressive female pastors. Not every conservative Christian female pastor is Serena Joy.
I thought it was going to be about Christian spanking, but it was even worse! Women pastors!
Daisy –
not totally true! there was an order of non-cloistered nun who were associated with (but NOT under the command of) the jesuits in the 1600′s, and that inspired a couple other orders, later. they are not TECHINICALLY Jesuits, but…
It just cracks me up that this would be considered akin to porn for Christians. I am so glad I gave up on organized religion.
Has anyone watched Vicar of Dibley? This is a great British series about a woman Vicar played by the brilliant Dawn French. I own the collection and after watching it from start to finish I don’t look at clergy the same in terms of gender discrimination. But I also think living in a democracy has ruined religion for me as well.
Each denomination is composed of its member congregations, and each congregation is composed of its individual members. If the individual members are not embracing the progressive nature, how progressive can the denomination be?
Well, that would depend on how many of each congregation and how many congregations have factions like this. I’m a member of the United Church of Canada, and we are awell known for being progressive (ordained women back in 1925, gays in 80-something, and have performed gay marriages since they were legal). In my particular congregation, some are progressive, some are less so. Our elders are 11 women, one man. Our minister is a woman (a young woman, no less). But our congregation is old. I mean, I’m the only member under 35, and I’m one of 2 under 40. Over 80, we have about two dozen.
Every congregation is different, of course. Some are going to be more conservative than others. But they all have to follow the direction of the higher church. Some people will fight it, but they’ll either come around or they’ll leave.