Uhm, I don’t disagree with you in the main, but treating people as if they had a gun on them simply because they happened to be born male seems to me the very definition of sexism. Everyone should be wary, just as I am wary when I am in unsafe place with someone I don’t know who may or may not have a gun. But if I treated everyone as though they actually did have a gun, it would not be ‘justified’, it would be out and out paranoia. All rapists may be men, that does not make all men rapists.

Gee, I wish we collective feminists would stop making insulting generalizations about men. Judging the intentions of an entire group based on a few personal experience is so wrong of us (feminists) to always collectively do!

When I heard about this study I was reminded of a conversation I had a few years ago. I’d called one of my male friends out on joking about date-rape/having sex with someone who is drunk and was very shocked when another male ‘friend’ tried to diffuse the issue with “it’s the only way some guys can score.” I’ll never forget that he said that.

This is what is meant by rape-culture.

In the context of feminism and of feminist rape discussions “unwanted sex” is semantically equivalent to “rape” or at the least “moral rape” (as distinguished from “criminal rape.”) And even if there are folks here who DON’T equate unwanted sex with rape, they can probably nonetheless admit that unwanted sex is bad. Enthusiastic consent is good, unwanted sex is bad.

But… that is a completely different issue than the issue of “what exactly is this particular survey question, given to this particular population, measuring?”

If you’re going to cite the survey, then you have to be able to talk about the survey. if you’re going to cite the survey statistics, you have to be able to talk about how the authors got those statistics. Otherwise, the report may as well be made up, and that’s a bit Republican for me.

researchers make mistakes. That’s why i used to spend time rewriting questions (and redoing surveys.) And even when they get exactly what they intend, history is rife with overweening extension of survey results into areas which aren’t really related to the study. I think this may be one of them.
Oh, and cara:

# Cara says:
…whether it’s 1 in 7, in in 5, or 1 in 20, we’ve still got ourselves a huge ass problem, and that is what needs to be dealt with.

Yes. The problem is huge and needs to be solved. But you’re not living up to your own claim.
If it really doesn’t matter what the statistics are then you shouldn’t mind if people discuss the study; there’s no harm to anyone’s position irrespective of the outcome. If it really DOES matter what the statistics are, then you should expect to have to defend the statistics you cite.

I think facts matter, in all cases. And I do not think it is reasonable to expect folks to ignore them even on an important issue like this.

“And I don’t know why you’re assuming that the rest of us are holding that assumption. I’d be surprised if any of us did.”

Hmm, true, it’s an assumption. One that I’m basing on my personal experience of talks with feminists. Could be wrong here though, sure.

“Honestly, it sounds like you’re projecting an awful lot of your own stuff onto the rest of us.”

I don’t know. I’m partly a product of my own experiences and education, as everyone. I can only see the world through my eyes. And all I can attempt is to explain to others what it looks like from my point of view. So, just as with everyone else, I can’t claim that my perspective is objective. But projection? Not sure.

And I don’t know why you’re assuming that the rest of us are holding that assumption. I’d be surprised if any of us did. Honestly, it sounds like you’re projecting an awful lot of your own stuff onto the rest of us.

“So Sammy, do fellow men like Matt, who casually made a rape joke in this thread, make you feel bad about yourself? Or is it just us women, who have to be on guard against men who use their penises as weapons?”

I think he crossed a line with the penis as a weapon quip, but I don’t think he or other men who engage in this kind of conversation are part of the problem, but rather part of the solution, even if you may have problems seeing that in this conversation. It’s those who don’t even show any kind of emotional reaction to the alligations that I think are (possibly) problematic.

Personally, I’m uneasy with the “penis as a weapon” talk. A lot of things are can be used as assault weapons, like forks, or steak knives, yet people in a family restaurant generally won’t think that another person will use theirs as a weapon against them.

See, for me, I’ve been taught by a feminist mother that my sexual desires are inherently harmful to women and that they are bad. Maybe that’s not exactly what she wanted to teach me, but it’s what stuck and what led to a generalised anxiety with respect to ever expressing sexual desire towards women. I just can’t bring myself to do it because I was told that male sexuality is bad and violent.

I know that a lot of feminists may think that’s a good thing: One weapon less. But this, essentially, takes us back to the “feminist sex wars” and that’s why I quoted Naomi Wolf above. To me, the problem is not reasonably careful behaviour based on statistically valid assumptions about creepy male behaviour – sure, women are also “potentially” dangerous, but statistically women clearly need to be a lot more careful about physical and sexual violence. I don’t have a problem with *that*.

I’m just having the impression, and that may very well be a consequence of my early indoctrination with “all men are bad” ideology, that the assumption here is that men *ARE* like this, not that they *CAN BE*. That it’s not a statistical assumption about problematic specimen within a healthy male population but assumptions about the violent part within each male.

Thus, to me this sounds more like the assumption is rather “when” instead of “if” a single male person will become a rapist. And I’m not sure that’s a fair assumption.