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	<title>Comments on: Civics Fail?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:10:57 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Nic</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/#comment-214057</link>
		<dc:creator>Nic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 12:45:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9875#comment-214057</guid>
		<description>Answered 31 out of 33 correctly — 93.94 %. And I&#039;m British. I think you might expect more from Americans - most of these things came up during the election.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Answered 31 out of 33 correctly — 93.94 %. And I&#8217;m British. I think you might expect more from Americans &#8211; most of these things came up during the election.</p>
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		<title>By: courage</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/#comment-213806</link>
		<dc:creator>courage</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 05:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9875#comment-213806</guid>
		<description>93.94%, maybe all conservatives aren&#039;t idiots.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>93.94%, maybe all conservatives aren&#8217;t idiots.</p>
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		<title>By: shah8</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/#comment-213189</link>
		<dc:creator>shah8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 27 Nov 2008 00:05:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9875#comment-213189</guid>
		<description>again, that is precisely true--there was a huge argument about this during the early decades of the 20th century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>again, that is precisely true&#8211;there was a huge argument about this during the early decades of the 20th century.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/#comment-213174</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:11:36 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>shah8, I noted that different tax policies will lead to different outcomes.  The question was a basic one on a progressive tax scheme, not on specific policy alternatives.  Again, the fact that the answer specifically said &quot;encourages more investment &lt;i&gt; from those with higher incomes&lt;/i&gt;&quot;, absent any other policy feature, makes it clearly wrong.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>shah8, I noted that different tax policies will lead to different outcomes.  The question was a basic one on a progressive tax scheme, not on specific policy alternatives.  Again, the fact that the answer specifically said &#8220;encourages more investment <i> from those with higher incomes</i>&#8220;, absent any other policy feature, makes it clearly wrong.</p>
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		<title>By: shah8</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/#comment-213170</link>
		<dc:creator>shah8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 22:02:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9875#comment-213170</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Tom&lt;/strong&gt;, you would do well to get in a bit of history on tax policy.

and &lt;strong&gt;leah&lt;/strong&gt;, reread what you said, so, um, ooops, sorry about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Tom</strong>, you would do well to get in a bit of history on tax policy.</p>
<p>and <strong>leah</strong>, reread what you said, so, um, ooops, sorry about that.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/#comment-213169</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:52:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9875#comment-213169</guid>
		<description>shah8, note that answer A on the progressive tax question specifically said &quot;encourages more investment &lt;i&gt;from those with higher incomes&lt;/i&gt;&quot;, obviously wrong, all else being equal, if those with higher incomes are being taxed at a higher rate (leaving them less income to invest).  Again, possible alternatives that might have progressive taxation but would promote savings or leave them unchanged, such as government surpluses and spending on public works or specific tax policies to encourage investment (e.g.: tax-deferred retirement plans), were not addressed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>shah8, note that answer A on the progressive tax question specifically said &#8220;encourages more investment <i>from those with higher incomes</i>&#8220;, obviously wrong, all else being equal, if those with higher incomes are being taxed at a higher rate (leaving them less income to invest).  Again, possible alternatives that might have progressive taxation but would promote savings or leave them unchanged, such as government surpluses and spending on public works or specific tax policies to encourage investment (e.g.: tax-deferred retirement plans), were not addressed.</p>
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		<title>By: TD</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/#comment-213166</link>
		<dc:creator>TD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:40:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9875#comment-213166</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote cite=&quot;estraven&quot;&gt;Are there more economists out there to confirm that the answer to 27 is a well-established fact?&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Its an established fact that the advantage to capitalism is that it solves the problem of incredible complexity by distributing the decisions to a large number of individuals who decide based on their own information. 

Leontief was another source for this. Essentially economies are just so complex that without a distributed decision making process it will just not work. 

But there seem to be a lot of people who have a misconception of capitalism that it means  &#039;everything being provided by the market&#039;. But capitalism does in fact suggest a government role in the market, in Adam Smith&#039;s the Wealth of Nations this included the provision of national defense, the provision of civil defense, and the establishment of select public institutions, as the three roles of the government. The last one is pretty broad and includes lighthouses, or roads, as well as free and compulsory public education. 

In modern economic parlance these would be dubbed &quot;positive externalities&quot; since they benefit people not involved in their transaction, thus the level they&#039;d be provided through the free market would not reflect their true cost/benefit. The flipside to this issue is &quot;negative externalities&quot;, which are things which impose a cost to people not involved in the transaction (e.g. pollution) and thus the government&#039;s proper role is to tax or legislate an adjustment to that cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote cite="estraven"><p>Are there more economists out there to confirm that the answer to 27 is a well-established fact?</p></blockquote>
<p>Its an established fact that the advantage to capitalism is that it solves the problem of incredible complexity by distributing the decisions to a large number of individuals who decide based on their own information. </p>
<p>Leontief was another source for this. Essentially economies are just so complex that without a distributed decision making process it will just not work. </p>
<p>But there seem to be a lot of people who have a misconception of capitalism that it means  &#8216;everything being provided by the market&#8217;. But capitalism does in fact suggest a government role in the market, in Adam Smith&#8217;s the Wealth of Nations this included the provision of national defense, the provision of civil defense, and the establishment of select public institutions, as the three roles of the government. The last one is pretty broad and includes lighthouses, or roads, as well as free and compulsory public education. </p>
<p>In modern economic parlance these would be dubbed &#8220;positive externalities&#8221; since they benefit people not involved in their transaction, thus the level they&#8217;d be provided through the free market would not reflect their true cost/benefit. The flipside to this issue is &#8220;negative externalities&#8221;, which are things which impose a cost to people not involved in the transaction (e.g. pollution) and thus the government&#8217;s proper role is to tax or legislate an adjustment to that cost.</p>
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		<title>By: shah8</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/#comment-213161</link>
		<dc:creator>shah8</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:17:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9875#comment-213161</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;leah&lt;/strong&gt;, repeat after me, the purpose of government is redistribution...the purpose of government is redistribution.  The entire point of having a government is to redistribute pooled assets for the aims of the whole, which by definition means that some people will get more tax than other people, who will get more services, even if the budget is balanced--and we haven&#039;t even gotten to oppression issues.  The answer ultimately has to have *average* in there to make that statement actually true, which is why I ended up picking A like the other people.

The income tax question had two right answers.  A progressive income tax is explicitly about pushing profits back into investments in industrial societies.  Otherwise, it *only* happens during a serious war, like the Civil War.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>leah</strong>, repeat after me, the purpose of government is redistribution&#8230;the purpose of government is redistribution.  The entire point of having a government is to redistribute pooled assets for the aims of the whole, which by definition means that some people will get more tax than other people, who will get more services, even if the budget is balanced&#8211;and we haven&#8217;t even gotten to oppression issues.  The answer ultimately has to have *average* in there to make that statement actually true, which is why I ended up picking A like the other people.</p>
<p>The income tax question had two right answers.  A progressive income tax is explicitly about pushing profits back into investments in industrial societies.  Otherwise, it *only* happens during a serious war, like the Civil War.</p>
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		<title>By: Tom</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/#comment-213160</link>
		<dc:creator>Tom</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 21:17:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9875#comment-213160</guid>
		<description>Again, with 27, the question turns on &quot;centralized planning&quot;.  The argument for a free market (or free-ish market, i.e.: mixed economy) vs. a central planner does turn on the information problem.  Buyers and sellers in a spot market do have greater information about means and ends than a central planner operating five years out ever will.  Would you have trusted someone five years ago to accurately plan out, say, housing stock or automobile production for today?  Note that there are efficient exceptions, even in a free market.  Ronald Coase identified in the 1930s that business firms exist essentially to subvert the contract-based spot market, by locking-in exchange relationships and prices to lower transaction costs.

Given the alternatives of &quot;free market&quot; and &quot;centralized planning&quot;, the existence of the information problem is decisive.  The question does not address issues of market failure, bounded rationality, information asymmetries, public goods, natural monopolies, unequal distribution, or a number of other factors that can cause bad outcomes in a free market.  The outcome asked about is economic prosperity, presumably in the aggregate.  I don&#039;t know of any case of an entire economy in which centralized planning has led to greater output than a market system.  Does anyone have an example to offer?

30) &quot;...stimulate economic activity when the economy is in a severe recession?&quot;  Reducing taxes and raising spending.  This is the Keynesian approach.  With the goal being to stimulate the economy, you won&#039;t be raising taxes more than necessary.  Get the economy going again and then raise taxes.  Better in the short term, if possible, to borrow (from bond-holders who can be paid back later) and print money to get the economy back into expansion and then raise taxes.

33) (since you mentioned it anon) If taxes equal government spending, then:  government debt is obviously not zero (deficit is).  &quot;Per person&quot; means on average.  Distribution again is not addressed.  If T(taxes)=G(Government Spending) and n is population, then T/n = G/n.
The question again didn&#039;t discuss distribution, if each and every person pays and receives the same amount in taxes, or if they receive as much in government spending as they pay in taxes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Again, with 27, the question turns on &#8220;centralized planning&#8221;.  The argument for a free market (or free-ish market, i.e.: mixed economy) vs. a central planner does turn on the information problem.  Buyers and sellers in a spot market do have greater information about means and ends than a central planner operating five years out ever will.  Would you have trusted someone five years ago to accurately plan out, say, housing stock or automobile production for today?  Note that there are efficient exceptions, even in a free market.  Ronald Coase identified in the 1930s that business firms exist essentially to subvert the contract-based spot market, by locking-in exchange relationships and prices to lower transaction costs.</p>
<p>Given the alternatives of &#8220;free market&#8221; and &#8220;centralized planning&#8221;, the existence of the information problem is decisive.  The question does not address issues of market failure, bounded rationality, information asymmetries, public goods, natural monopolies, unequal distribution, or a number of other factors that can cause bad outcomes in a free market.  The outcome asked about is economic prosperity, presumably in the aggregate.  I don&#8217;t know of any case of an entire economy in which centralized planning has led to greater output than a market system.  Does anyone have an example to offer?</p>
<p>30) &#8220;&#8230;stimulate economic activity when the economy is in a severe recession?&#8221;  Reducing taxes and raising spending.  This is the Keynesian approach.  With the goal being to stimulate the economy, you won&#8217;t be raising taxes more than necessary.  Get the economy going again and then raise taxes.  Better in the short term, if possible, to borrow (from bond-holders who can be paid back later) and print money to get the economy back into expansion and then raise taxes.</p>
<p>33) (since you mentioned it anon) If taxes equal government spending, then:  government debt is obviously not zero (deficit is).  &#8220;Per person&#8221; means on average.  Distribution again is not addressed.  If T(taxes)=G(Government Spending) and n is population, then T/n = G/n.<br />
The question again didn&#8217;t discuss distribution, if each and every person pays and receives the same amount in taxes, or if they receive as much in government spending as they pay in taxes.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron Boyden</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/25/civics-fail/#comment-213141</link>
		<dc:creator>Aaron Boyden</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 26 Nov 2008 20:34:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9875#comment-213141</guid>
		<description>100 here.  It didn&#039;t even occur to me to read &quot;tax per person&quot; and &quot;spending per person&quot; as taxes on each specific person&quot; and &quot;spending on each specific person.&quot;  How could one measure the latter, anyway?  Read it as &quot;average ... per person&quot; and D is obviously right.  On the other hand, the others are all wrong on any reading.

I can see people thinking 27 has a false presupposition, but surely there are some circumstances where free markets work better than central planning (regardless of whether the situation is as universal as the question implies) and surely A is the correct explanation for why free markets work when they do.

I also found the wrong answers on the Socrates/Plato/Aristotle/Aquinas question so painful that I would have trouble respecting anyone who didn&#039;t manage to get that right.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>100 here.  It didn&#8217;t even occur to me to read &#8220;tax per person&#8221; and &#8220;spending per person&#8221; as taxes on each specific person&#8221; and &#8220;spending on each specific person.&#8221;  How could one measure the latter, anyway?  Read it as &#8220;average &#8230; per person&#8221; and D is obviously right.  On the other hand, the others are all wrong on any reading.</p>
<p>I can see people thinking 27 has a false presupposition, but surely there are some circumstances where free markets work better than central planning (regardless of whether the situation is as universal as the question implies) and surely A is the correct explanation for why free markets work when they do.</p>
<p>I also found the wrong answers on the Socrates/Plato/Aristotle/Aquinas question so painful that I would have trouble respecting anyone who didn&#8217;t manage to get that right.</p>
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