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	<title>Comments on: Faith, without a map</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 06:12:24 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Gamez and Girlz. &#171; sketches of a twenty-something life</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/#comment-243349</link>
		<dc:creator>Gamez and Girlz. &#171; sketches of a twenty-something life</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 May 2009 21:37:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9918#comment-243349</guid>
		<description>[...] Read this (work safe, virus safe&#8230;trust me, it&#8217;s safe.) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Read this (work safe, virus safe&#8230;trust me, it&#8217;s safe.) [...]</p>
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		<title>By: moo moo</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/#comment-232355</link>
		<dc:creator>moo moo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Mar 2009 02:56:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9918#comment-232355</guid>
		<description>the artists intention, which was to show what an attractive woman looks like through asian sensibilities, is spot on. i believe that the look of celebrities/models in asia do align with the second picture much more than the first. 

think to euro fashion shows with asian models who always seem to have that extremely severe face and needle thin eyes (more like 1st pic) and compare that to to cutesy doe eyed baby faced women from any asian CD cover or movie (see: anne suzuki, liu yifei), or even the girl on the poster for your upcoming local asian nightclub dance party (more like 2nd pic).

i&#039;m not saying either are more accurate representations of what asian women actually look like, but it&#039;s a valid point that there are distinct looks that both cultures find attractive... or maybe i&#039;m totally wrong! kelly hu is pretty hot, zhang ziyi crossed over successfully, grace park especially in those fhm pics, riyo mori was chosen by japan to represent japan and won the very american miss universe competition and none of them would go in the severe looking needle eyed asian category (sorry lucy liu and sandra oh, you&#039;re firmly in that first category). perhaps we do have good taste in asian women in the west! it&#039;s just that maybe we just don&#039;t know how to draw em pretty yet.

which is fine, i think an asian artist person would be more likely to accurately depict an asian person than some swedish team. seriously, i&#039;ve never met any asian girl that looks like the chick from heavenly sword.

having said all this, i think the artist should have left the whole breast augmentation business alone. it just sets the new image up as an easy target for claims of being superficial and contradictory (&quot;oh, the asian man gives the asian girl bigger boobs which are so only a western thang!&quot;) the whole breast issue is ethnically insignificant anyway,  its not a race thing, it&#039;s an individual preference thing. if changes had been left to the face only, people would be having much more interesting discussion on cultural perceptions of beauty.

anyway, even though the boob job wasn&#039;t necessary, i definitely prefer the second one. she looks prettier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>the artists intention, which was to show what an attractive woman looks like through asian sensibilities, is spot on. i believe that the look of celebrities/models in asia do align with the second picture much more than the first. </p>
<p>think to euro fashion shows with asian models who always seem to have that extremely severe face and needle thin eyes (more like 1st pic) and compare that to to cutesy doe eyed baby faced women from any asian CD cover or movie (see: anne suzuki, liu yifei), or even the girl on the poster for your upcoming local asian nightclub dance party (more like 2nd pic).</p>
<p>i&#8217;m not saying either are more accurate representations of what asian women actually look like, but it&#8217;s a valid point that there are distinct looks that both cultures find attractive&#8230; or maybe i&#8217;m totally wrong! kelly hu is pretty hot, zhang ziyi crossed over successfully, grace park especially in those fhm pics, riyo mori was chosen by japan to represent japan and won the very american miss universe competition and none of them would go in the severe looking needle eyed asian category (sorry lucy liu and sandra oh, you&#8217;re firmly in that first category). perhaps we do have good taste in asian women in the west! it&#8217;s just that maybe we just don&#8217;t know how to draw em pretty yet.</p>
<p>which is fine, i think an asian artist person would be more likely to accurately depict an asian person than some swedish team. seriously, i&#8217;ve never met any asian girl that looks like the chick from heavenly sword.</p>
<p>having said all this, i think the artist should have left the whole breast augmentation business alone. it just sets the new image up as an easy target for claims of being superficial and contradictory (&#8220;oh, the asian man gives the asian girl bigger boobs which are so only a western thang!&#8221;) the whole breast issue is ethnically insignificant anyway,  its not a race thing, it&#8217;s an individual preference thing. if changes had been left to the face only, people would be having much more interesting discussion on cultural perceptions of beauty.</p>
<p>anyway, even though the boob job wasn&#8217;t necessary, i definitely prefer the second one. she looks prettier.</p>
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		<title>By: Mirror&#8217;s Edge: Pixilated Beauty, Race, and Stereotypes at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/#comment-214606</link>
		<dc:creator>Mirror&#8217;s Edge: Pixilated Beauty, Race, and Stereotypes at Racialicious - the intersection of race and pop culture</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 03 Dec 2008 10:00:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9918#comment-214606</guid>
		<description>[...] as always, Hollyhas got the gaming goods.   Mirror’s Edge is at its heart a game about parkour, the athletic art of moving between two [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] as always, Hollyhas got the gaming goods.   Mirror’s Edge is at its heart a game about parkour, the athletic art of moving between two [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ens</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/#comment-214028</link>
		<dc:creator>Ens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 07:53:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9918#comment-214028</guid>
		<description>Zula - The same publisher&#039;s previous title was &quot;Jade Empire&quot;, with similar interface and gameplay, and which had a bisexual man, a bisexual woman, and a straight woman* who could be wooed by protagonists of a an appropriate gender.  They also stressed over and over in the dialogue of Mass Effect that the blue alien wasn&#039;t gendered at all, but their species happens to look and sound a lot like human women -- which is an excuse, sure, but at the same time it is an exploration of ideas most video games don&#039;t have.

* That said, male characters can convince both women into a threesome, which brings back your point of appealing to the &quot;whoa, two chicks at once&quot; crowd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zula &#8211; The same publisher&#8217;s previous title was &#8220;Jade Empire&#8221;, with similar interface and gameplay, and which had a bisexual man, a bisexual woman, and a straight woman* who could be wooed by protagonists of a an appropriate gender.  They also stressed over and over in the dialogue of Mass Effect that the blue alien wasn&#8217;t gendered at all, but their species happens to look and sound a lot like human women &#8212; which is an excuse, sure, but at the same time it is an exploration of ideas most video games don&#8217;t have.</p>
<p>* That said, male characters can convince both women into a threesome, which brings back your point of appealing to the &#8220;whoa, two chicks at once&#8221; crowd.</p>
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		<title>By: ThickRedGlasses</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/#comment-213907</link>
		<dc:creator>ThickRedGlasses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 19:29:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9918#comment-213907</guid>
		<description>My brother downloaded the demo for Xbox, and I can&#039;t wait to get my hands on this game. The first thing I said to him was how happy I am that this woman isn&#039;t all sexed up or anything like that. It&#039;s really, really difficult to control, but the tutorials are pretty helpful. I&#039;m more into fighting games, which have some pretty complicated controls too, so I&#039;m sure I&#039;ll be able to learn Mirror&#039;s Edge. Hopefully, one of us will buy it after Christmas and play it while we&#039;re on break.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My brother downloaded the demo for Xbox, and I can&#8217;t wait to get my hands on this game. The first thing I said to him was how happy I am that this woman isn&#8217;t all sexed up or anything like that. It&#8217;s really, really difficult to control, but the tutorials are pretty helpful. I&#8217;m more into fighting games, which have some pretty complicated controls too, so I&#8217;m sure I&#8217;ll be able to learn Mirror&#8217;s Edge. Hopefully, one of us will buy it after Christmas and play it while we&#8217;re on break.</p>
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		<title>By: Sweet Machine</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/#comment-213887</link>
		<dc:creator>Sweet Machine</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:08:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9918#comment-213887</guid>
		<description>Thanks for this post -- I am aching to play this game, but just about every first-person game gives me motion sickness. We downloaded the demo and I could only watch for about two minutes before I had to leave the room -- so sad! So I&#039;m glad to be able to experience it vicariously a little bit here. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for this post &#8212; I am aching to play this game, but just about every first-person game gives me motion sickness. We downloaded the demo and I could only watch for about two minutes before I had to leave the room &#8212; so sad! So I&#8217;m glad to be able to experience it vicariously a little bit here. :-)</p>
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		<title>By: Muse142</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/#comment-213886</link>
		<dc:creator>Muse142</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 17:08:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9918#comment-213886</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;I blame that whole “it’s impossible to satirize fundamentalists because someone, somewhere, has said the exact same thing while actually believing it” thing. Except replace “fundamentalists” with “pompous feminist academic stereotype.”&lt;/blockquote&gt;
Poe&#039;s Law!  =)

Oh, and yeah... this is why I don&#039;t read gaming websites.  The only time they mention anything about feminism is to mock it, or to bitch about how we&#039;re trying to take away their booth babes and boob physics.

Mirror&#039;s Edge looks shiny though; I might go play through the demo just to see if I can hack the controls.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>I blame that whole “it’s impossible to satirize fundamentalists because someone, somewhere, has said the exact same thing while actually believing it” thing. Except replace “fundamentalists” with “pompous feminist academic stereotype.”</p></blockquote>
<p>Poe&#8217;s Law!  =)</p>
<p>Oh, and yeah&#8230; this is why I don&#8217;t read gaming websites.  The only time they mention anything about feminism is to mock it, or to bitch about how we&#8217;re trying to take away their booth babes and boob physics.</p>
<p>Mirror&#8217;s Edge looks shiny though; I might go play through the demo just to see if I can hack the controls.</p>
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		<title>By: Zula</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/#comment-213819</link>
		<dc:creator>Zula</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 30 Nov 2008 07:06:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9918#comment-213819</guid>
		<description>Ah, I hadn&#039;t thought of Metroid (the franchise brings to mind the older, less FPS games for me), and I haven&#039;t heard (or only peripherally have) of the other ones. My gamer creds have been thoroughly disproven. *sad panda*

Holly - I have read that article before. The only way I can see this being &quot;intentionally hilarious&quot; is if the author is intentionally pulling crap out of his butt. If he is, I love it and think it&#039;s great; if he actually believes some of the tenuous arguments he lays out, then I&#039;m terrified. Alas, my irony-sense is not keen enough to determine whether he&#039;s serious or not. I blame that whole &quot;it&#039;s impossible to satirize fundamentalists because someone, somewhere, has said the exact same thing while &lt;i&gt;actually believing&lt;/i&gt; it&quot; thing. Except replace &quot;fundamentalists&quot; with &quot;pompous feminist academic stereotype.&quot;

And now I have sucked all the fun out of that article. Dammit! Sorry. -_-

Also, re: Mass Effect - though I concur that it was refreshing to choose the gender of the protagonist (among myriad other aspects of the character), I was sorely disappointed by the relationship choices presented. If you were female, you could either have a heterosexual relationship or a homosexual relationship. If you were male, however, you could either have a heterosexual relationship... or a heterosexual (kind of) relationship with an alien. Hm. It leads me to conclude that the game developers were more worried about the &quot;straight men think lesbians are hot&quot; stereotype than striving for true sexual equality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah, I hadn&#8217;t thought of Metroid (the franchise brings to mind the older, less FPS games for me), and I haven&#8217;t heard (or only peripherally have) of the other ones. My gamer creds have been thoroughly disproven. *sad panda*</p>
<p>Holly &#8211; I have read that article before. The only way I can see this being &#8220;intentionally hilarious&#8221; is if the author is intentionally pulling crap out of his butt. If he is, I love it and think it&#8217;s great; if he actually believes some of the tenuous arguments he lays out, then I&#8217;m terrified. Alas, my irony-sense is not keen enough to determine whether he&#8217;s serious or not. I blame that whole &#8220;it&#8217;s impossible to satirize fundamentalists because someone, somewhere, has said the exact same thing while <i>actually believing</i> it&#8221; thing. Except replace &#8220;fundamentalists&#8221; with &#8220;pompous feminist academic stereotype.&#8221;</p>
<p>And now I have sucked all the fun out of that article. Dammit! Sorry. -_-</p>
<p>Also, re: Mass Effect &#8211; though I concur that it was refreshing to choose the gender of the protagonist (among myriad other aspects of the character), I was sorely disappointed by the relationship choices presented. If you were female, you could either have a heterosexual relationship or a homosexual relationship. If you were male, however, you could either have a heterosexual relationship&#8230; or a heterosexual (kind of) relationship with an alien. Hm. It leads me to conclude that the game developers were more worried about the &#8220;straight men think lesbians are hot&#8221; stereotype than striving for true sexual equality.</p>
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		<title>By: Ouyang Dan</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/#comment-213722</link>
		<dc:creator>Ouyang Dan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 22:07:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9918#comment-213722</guid>
		<description>arielariel~

Ha!  That&#039;s how I feel about it!  I like playing games w/ my husband, but I get so frustrated.  He will clear a whole room of zombies and I am still trying to figure out how not to run into the wall.  I spend all of my time trying to not run into things and not get shot!  My inability to master standard controls made me give up on &lt;i&gt;Mass Efffect&lt;/i&gt; before I had gotten very far at all.  It frustrated me too, in &lt;i&gt;Assassin&#039;s Creed&lt;/i&gt;, which I really want to play.  One time I got my controller stuck staring at the sun in some game and had to quit.

*sigh*  I will have to stick to computer games.  A mouse and arrow keys in WoW is about all I can handle.  I love gaming, but I get a little frustrated w/ the controls when the pressure is on!

&lt;i&gt;Left 4 Dead&lt;/i&gt; is still fun, though.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>arielariel~</p>
<p>Ha!  That&#8217;s how I feel about it!  I like playing games w/ my husband, but I get so frustrated.  He will clear a whole room of zombies and I am still trying to figure out how not to run into the wall.  I spend all of my time trying to not run into things and not get shot!  My inability to master standard controls made me give up on <i>Mass Efffect</i> before I had gotten very far at all.  It frustrated me too, in <i>Assassin&#8217;s Creed</i>, which I really want to play.  One time I got my controller stuck staring at the sun in some game and had to quit.</p>
<p>*sigh*  I will have to stick to computer games.  A mouse and arrow keys in WoW is about all I can handle.  I love gaming, but I get a little frustrated w/ the controls when the pressure is on!</p>
<p><i>Left 4 Dead</i> is still fun, though.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2008/11/28/faith-without-a-map/#comment-213718</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 29 Nov 2008 21:41:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=9918#comment-213718</guid>
		<description>You&#039;ve been out of the loop for a while then, exholt :D

I actually hadn&#039;t played any FPS-style games since those until about a year ago. Then I thought it might be worth checking out the latest generation. Halo hasn&#039;t changed the basic formula all too much, although co-operative first-person shooters feel very different in terms of tactics, and AI is good enough now that you can be grateful for computer teammates. The real interesting games that use that same old FPS engine for new purposes are ones like Portal, Bioshock, and Mirror&#039;s Edge.

As for my laptop, it was an &lt;a HREF=&quot;http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2346&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;Asus z71v&lt;/a&gt; with a Pentium M chip, but the real reason it melted was due to power supply problems between the AC adapter and the power connection for the laptop.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;ve been out of the loop for a while then, exholt :D</p>
<p>I actually hadn&#8217;t played any FPS-style games since those until about a year ago. Then I thought it might be worth checking out the latest generation. Halo hasn&#8217;t changed the basic formula all too much, although co-operative first-person shooters feel very different in terms of tactics, and AI is good enough now that you can be grateful for computer teammates. The real interesting games that use that same old FPS engine for new purposes are ones like Portal, Bioshock, and Mirror&#8217;s Edge.</p>
<p>As for my laptop, it was an <a HREF="http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=2346" rel="nofollow">Asus z71v</a> with a Pentium M chip, but the real reason it melted was due to power supply problems between the AC adapter and the power connection for the laptop.</p>
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