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	<title>Comments on: Thoughts on Feminism, Class, and Context</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
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		<title>By: Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Freewriting on privilege, class, inaccurate words, and frustration</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/#comment-227386</link>
		<dc:creator>Being Amber Rhea &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Freewriting on privilege, class, inaccurate words, and frustration</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Feb 2009 21:03:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11602#comment-227386</guid>
		<description>[...] make themselves look like idiots when they say things like, Jessica Valenti lives in a ritzy NYC apartment. What planet are they on?? Seriously, I wish somebody would explain to me on what planet freelance [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] make themselves look like idiots when they say things like, Jessica Valenti lives in a ritzy NYC apartment. What planet are they on?? Seriously, I wish somebody would explain to me on what planet freelance [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Kristin</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/#comment-227057</link>
		<dc:creator>Kristin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 15 Feb 2009 05:17:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11602#comment-227057</guid>
		<description>Hi Lauren.  I just started seeing some of the shit you&#039;re getting for this, so I wanted to come back...  I know it&#039;s late in the game, but *good on you* for sticking by your position here, even if it means making people angry.  It is unfortunate that some folks can&#039;t be challenged without bringing the &quot;yer just jelus&quot; meme into the debate, and I have to say...  I *still* wouldn&#039;t shed a tear if that claim disappeared from feminism altogether.  It&#039;s bullshit, and it&#039;s a move designed to mask inequality and trivializes the complaint.  Fuck that.  And good for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lauren.  I just started seeing some of the shit you&#8217;re getting for this, so I wanted to come back&#8230;  I know it&#8217;s late in the game, but *good on you* for sticking by your position here, even if it means making people angry.  It is unfortunate that some folks can&#8217;t be challenged without bringing the &#8220;yer just jelus&#8221; meme into the debate, and I have to say&#8230;  I *still* wouldn&#8217;t shed a tear if that claim disappeared from feminism altogether.  It&#8217;s bullshit, and it&#8217;s a move designed to mask inequality and trivializes the complaint.  Fuck that.  And good for you.</p>
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		<title>By: Cecelia</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/#comment-227036</link>
		<dc:creator>Cecelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:37:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11602#comment-227036</guid>
		<description>Hi Lauren!  *waves* back!  

Its rough for all of us who experience the first tidal wave of the recession.  We&#039;ve all been experiencing this before much of this country was.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Lauren!  *waves* back!  </p>
<p>Its rough for all of us who experience the first tidal wave of the recession.  We&#8217;ve all been experiencing this before much of this country was.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/#comment-227034</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:12:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11602#comment-227034</guid>
		<description>Cecelia, quite a few of us on this thread are Midwesterners (I&#039;m from Indiana!  *waves*).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cecelia, quite a few of us on this thread are Midwesterners (I&#8217;m from Indiana!  *waves*).</p>
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		<title>By: Cecelia</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/#comment-227033</link>
		<dc:creator>Cecelia</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 14 Feb 2009 23:10:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11602#comment-227033</guid>
		<description>I normally don&#039;t comment here but I have to correct the facts that you have stated above because I stand up for my state and territory as a Native woman.

But the USA today article is wrong.   Check this out...

http://www.lansesentinel.com/news_archives.htm

&quot;The unemployment rate in the Upper Peninsula rose sharply in December to 11.4 percent, a full 2.0 percentage points above November’s 9.4 percent. Mackinac County recorded the highest UP unemployment at 24.2 percent. Baraga County reflected manufacturing layoffs with the second highest unemployment rate in the UP,--20.6 percent. Those are also the highest unemployment rates in Michigan.&quot;

My of my relatives live in the Upper Peninsuala and specifically on the reservation (Ojibway/Anishinaabe territory) there were the unemployment in that county is 20.6%. 

Also everyone is experiencing hard times, but again, what about the tough times the people have been experiencing on reservations?  Not trying to one up oppression or anything.  Native news never makes the mainstream news.  Just want to shine light to a place where normally there is never any light shinned.  For instance, on the Pine Ridge reservation in SD the unemployment rate hovers near 80%.  

Again, no one is paying any attention to Michigan and this makes me so annoyed.  Michigan has fallen and its like a domino effect in this country but no one wants to pay attention in this country.  Oh yes, I know why, the blue collar folk don&#039;t matter?!  Right?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I normally don&#8217;t comment here but I have to correct the facts that you have stated above because I stand up for my state and territory as a Native woman.</p>
<p>But the USA today article is wrong.   Check this out&#8230;</p>
<p><a href="http://www.lansesentinel.com/news_archives.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.lansesentinel.com/news_archives.htm</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The unemployment rate in the Upper Peninsula rose sharply in December to 11.4 percent, a full 2.0 percentage points above November’s 9.4 percent. Mackinac County recorded the highest UP unemployment at 24.2 percent. Baraga County reflected manufacturing layoffs with the second highest unemployment rate in the UP,&#8211;20.6 percent. Those are also the highest unemployment rates in Michigan.&#8221;</p>
<p>My of my relatives live in the Upper Peninsuala and specifically on the reservation (Ojibway/Anishinaabe territory) there were the unemployment in that county is 20.6%. </p>
<p>Also everyone is experiencing hard times, but again, what about the tough times the people have been experiencing on reservations?  Not trying to one up oppression or anything.  Native news never makes the mainstream news.  Just want to shine light to a place where normally there is never any light shinned.  For instance, on the Pine Ridge reservation in SD the unemployment rate hovers near 80%.  </p>
<p>Again, no one is paying any attention to Michigan and this makes me so annoyed.  Michigan has fallen and its like a domino effect in this country but no one wants to pay attention in this country.  Oh yes, I know why, the blue collar folk don&#8217;t matter?!  Right?</p>
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		<title>By: La Lubu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/#comment-226596</link>
		<dc:creator>La Lubu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:59:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11602#comment-226596</guid>
		<description>Oh, and Snowdrop Explodes----the reason more people in the U.S. aren&#039;t Marxists has a helluva lot to do with the Palmer Raids of the 1920&#039;s and the McCarthyism of the 50&#039;s. Check out the book &quot;Outlaw Woman&quot; by Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz; she goes into some of her own family background and how that worked out.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh, and Snowdrop Explodes&#8212;-the reason more people in the U.S. aren&#8217;t Marxists has a helluva lot to do with the Palmer Raids of the 1920&#8242;s and the McCarthyism of the 50&#8242;s. Check out the book &#8220;Outlaw Woman&#8221; by Roxanne Dunbar Ortiz; she goes into some of her own family background and how that worked out.</p>
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		<title>By: La Lubu</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/#comment-226594</link>
		<dc:creator>La Lubu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 15:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11602#comment-226594</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;As for your questions about ‘professional’ feminists - every political movement is led by ‘intelligentsia’. Obviously movements need non-professional people to give their spare time too, sure, but without those professionals, they wouldn’t get anywhere.

Anti-intellectualism is very fashionable, and I think that is worrying.&lt;/i&gt;

Butterflywings, here&#039;s the problem I have with that statement---where are those professionals coming from? Who is anointing them professionals? Name me a movement with long-term success that gained its strength from the professionals. Especially, professionals that got their professional status from individuals or entities outside of, and in some cases oppositional to, the movement itself.

Without the grassroots, there is nothing. Nothing. Without the grassroots, those professionals can and will be co-opted. Movement comes from below.

Now, the reason I gave the civil rights movement as a model to be followed isn&#039;t just because of its successes (and mind you, many of feminism&#039;s successes rode coat-tail), but because of the emphasis on the grass roots, the many levels of organizing, and the recognition and development of talent no matter the source. Those are all serious weaknesses, both now and historically, within the feminist movement.

There is a &quot;face&quot; of feminism that is being promoted, and it isn&#039;t being promoted from the grass roots. That &quot;face&quot; of feminism doesn&#039;t resemble me or many other women by a long shot, and that isn&#039;t a matter of &quot;jealousy&quot;. It&#039;s a matter of &lt;i&gt;power&lt;/i&gt;. I can&#039;t and don&#039;t trust anyone, including women within the feminist movement, to represent my concerns when their lives have fuck-all to do with mine. Feminism is being rebranded as niche marketing, dammit, and as someone who marched in Chicago for the Equal Rights Amendment---was part of that huge crowd of people from all walks of life and has seen what our movement could be if we would just get our shit together-----it pisses me off to no end. 

And you know what? As a woman in the trades, I expected the first feminist reaction to the economic stimulus package to be, &quot;Woot! Infrastructure! What a great opportunity to get more women into the trades!&quot; Didn&#039;t work out that way, did it? There is no reason why our numbers shouldn&#039;t have risen in the trades the same way our numbers have risen in college, in law, in medicine, in finance, in entrepreneurship, etc. over the course of my lifetime. 

I&#039;m not anti-intellectual. I am angry that any grassroots critique of feminist spokeswomen, especially critique that is more-or-less &quot;yoo-hoo! over here! don&#039;t forget about us!!&quot; is inevitably reduced to &quot;anti-intellectualism&quot; or &quot;jealousy&quot;. 

&lt;i&gt;And what is this meme that only priveleged people can be well-read, or write in an articulate way?
You can learn those things.&lt;/i&gt;

Oh, I agree with you. I&#039;m just tired or having people look at me like the dog spoke when I use words of more than three syllables. Online, nobody &quot;knows I&#039;m a dog&quot; (wolf?); in-person, it&#039;s a different story. And it&#039;s draining.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>As for your questions about ‘professional’ feminists &#8211; every political movement is led by ‘intelligentsia’. Obviously movements need non-professional people to give their spare time too, sure, but without those professionals, they wouldn’t get anywhere.</p>
<p>Anti-intellectualism is very fashionable, and I think that is worrying.</i></p>
<p>Butterflywings, here&#8217;s the problem I have with that statement&#8212;where are those professionals coming from? Who is anointing them professionals? Name me a movement with long-term success that gained its strength from the professionals. Especially, professionals that got their professional status from individuals or entities outside of, and in some cases oppositional to, the movement itself.</p>
<p>Without the grassroots, there is nothing. Nothing. Without the grassroots, those professionals can and will be co-opted. Movement comes from below.</p>
<p>Now, the reason I gave the civil rights movement as a model to be followed isn&#8217;t just because of its successes (and mind you, many of feminism&#8217;s successes rode coat-tail), but because of the emphasis on the grass roots, the many levels of organizing, and the recognition and development of talent no matter the source. Those are all serious weaknesses, both now and historically, within the feminist movement.</p>
<p>There is a &#8220;face&#8221; of feminism that is being promoted, and it isn&#8217;t being promoted from the grass roots. That &#8220;face&#8221; of feminism doesn&#8217;t resemble me or many other women by a long shot, and that isn&#8217;t a matter of &#8220;jealousy&#8221;. It&#8217;s a matter of <i>power</i>. I can&#8217;t and don&#8217;t trust anyone, including women within the feminist movement, to represent my concerns when their lives have fuck-all to do with mine. Feminism is being rebranded as niche marketing, dammit, and as someone who marched in Chicago for the Equal Rights Amendment&#8212;was part of that huge crowd of people from all walks of life and has seen what our movement could be if we would just get our shit together&#8212;&#8211;it pisses me off to no end. </p>
<p>And you know what? As a woman in the trades, I expected the first feminist reaction to the economic stimulus package to be, &#8220;Woot! Infrastructure! What a great opportunity to get more women into the trades!&#8221; Didn&#8217;t work out that way, did it? There is no reason why our numbers shouldn&#8217;t have risen in the trades the same way our numbers have risen in college, in law, in medicine, in finance, in entrepreneurship, etc. over the course of my lifetime. </p>
<p>I&#8217;m not anti-intellectual. I am angry that any grassroots critique of feminist spokeswomen, especially critique that is more-or-less &#8220;yoo-hoo! over here! don&#8217;t forget about us!!&#8221; is inevitably reduced to &#8220;anti-intellectualism&#8221; or &#8220;jealousy&#8221;. </p>
<p><i>And what is this meme that only priveleged people can be well-read, or write in an articulate way?<br />
You can learn those things.</i></p>
<p>Oh, I agree with you. I&#8217;m just tired or having people look at me like the dog spoke when I use words of more than three syllables. Online, nobody &#8220;knows I&#8217;m a dog&#8221; (wolf?); in-person, it&#8217;s a different story. And it&#8217;s draining.</p>
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		<title>By: Valeries</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/#comment-226572</link>
		<dc:creator>Valeries</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Feb 2009 12:44:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11602#comment-226572</guid>
		<description>Sorry, but Queens is a burrough of NYC, and you&#039;re the one who ranted about how awesomely awesome you felt about the place you were moving into. I didn&#039;t mean to say that it was new relative to other apartments, but it is new to you. Rather than get defensive, try asking yourself how I could possibly not make any assumptions about your financial situation relative to mine if you are moving into a place you love in an area which I would consider greatly expensive, in the middle of a recession without making any references to live-in landlords or roommates.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sorry, but Queens is a burrough of NYC, and you&#8217;re the one who ranted about how awesomely awesome you felt about the place you were moving into. I didn&#8217;t mean to say that it was new relative to other apartments, but it is new to you. Rather than get defensive, try asking yourself how I could possibly not make any assumptions about your financial situation relative to mine if you are moving into a place you love in an area which I would consider greatly expensive, in the middle of a recession without making any references to live-in landlords or roommates.</p>
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		<title>By: Lauren</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/#comment-226447</link>
		<dc:creator>Lauren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 23:54:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11602#comment-226447</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Anti-intellectualism is very fashionable, and I think that is worrying.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Right.  I don&#039;t see a whole lot of anti-intellectualism here at all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Anti-intellectualism is very fashionable, and I think that is worrying.</p></blockquote>
<p>Right.  I don&#8217;t see a whole lot of anti-intellectualism here at all.</p>
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		<title>By: Butterflywings</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/09/thoughts-on-feminism-class-and-context/#comment-226409</link>
		<dc:creator>Butterflywings</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 22:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11602#comment-226409</guid>
		<description>And what is this meme that only priveleged people can be well-read, or write in an articulate way?
You can learn those things.

My parents were both the first person in their family to go to college. In many ways, it was a lot easier back then for clever working class people to succeed. Because we iddn&#039;t have the &#039;wah it&#039;s elitist to study&#039; trope.

And despite having a good job, I&#039;ve struggled. I&#039;ve had to go around the supermarket finding food close to the sell-by date. I have walked to work because I didn&#039;t have the bus fare. I am in huge debt, because I took out a loan to do a Masters.

I realise I am still priveleged to be educated, but there you go. Of course feminism should be inclusive, and should provide platforms for talented working class feminists. I&#039;m not saying otherwise.

What has bugged me (not personally directed at anyone) is the plain anti-intellectualism in some of the comments, here and elsewhere. Also, yes, it&#039;s unfair to assume that someone is a spolit brat and has a perfect life because of their class/ occupation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And what is this meme that only priveleged people can be well-read, or write in an articulate way?<br />
You can learn those things.</p>
<p>My parents were both the first person in their family to go to college. In many ways, it was a lot easier back then for clever working class people to succeed. Because we iddn&#8217;t have the &#8216;wah it&#8217;s elitist to study&#8217; trope.</p>
<p>And despite having a good job, I&#8217;ve struggled. I&#8217;ve had to go around the supermarket finding food close to the sell-by date. I have walked to work because I didn&#8217;t have the bus fare. I am in huge debt, because I took out a loan to do a Masters.</p>
<p>I realise I am still priveleged to be educated, but there you go. Of course feminism should be inclusive, and should provide platforms for talented working class feminists. I&#8217;m not saying otherwise.</p>
<p>What has bugged me (not personally directed at anyone) is the plain anti-intellectualism in some of the comments, here and elsewhere. Also, yes, it&#8217;s unfair to assume that someone is a spolit brat and has a perfect life because of their class/ occupation.</p>
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