Back by popular demand (well, okay, just Jill’s), it’s Thursday LOST blogging! Spoilers below the image.
Alright, so, last night’s episode This Place Is Death. The title is ominous and fitting, though probably not so much as it implies. The good news is that, in my personal opinion, this episode was a big step up from last week’s The Little Prince.
A lot more happened, and we learned a lot more. To recap: Charlotte died. We all saw that coming. She has the LOST vagina curse. Have a vagina on LOST? Chances are, you’re going to die. Really, come on now.
Secondly, we got to see that Danielle’s companions really did seem to “get sick,” or at least go insane; we also learned that it likely happened due to their interaction with the smoke monster down in that scary temple thing (the same temple where the Others’ went to “be safe” from Widmore’s people?). Ben gets Sun to go along with his plan to go back to the island by “proving” to her that Jin is still alive — though I personally think that having his wedding ring isn’t the world’s best proof, even as I know that it’s true and understand how desperate she would be to believe it. At the same time, while they teased us by getting five of the Oceanic 6 in the same place all at once, we’re now down to only two along for the ride. But, Desmond has joined up with them.
Most interestingly for me, we figured out why the island was unstuck in time in the first place — because the wheel that Ben turned was stuck off its axis. Locke moved it again, with help from Jack’s dad Christian, but we don’t know where he, or the other Losties, ended up.
Of course, this is LOST. So as we get more answers, we also get even more questions.
Locke being told by Christian that he was supposed to move the island says to me that my theory about how Locke is not supposed to be the Others/island’s leader is at least partially correct. Charlotte telling Daniel before she died that she used to be a Dharma kid confirmed that suspicion of mine — but whether or not my theory of her being the same little red-headed girl named Annie that Ben hung out with as a kid is correct is still unknown (though I personally think implied). At the same time, what was the deal with her thinking that Daniel told her not to go back to the island?
My theory is that Locke moving the island didn’t put it back in the present again, but moved it yet again in time, to the past. This is why, I think, we saw Daniel Faraday interacting with Martin Candle (Miles’ dad?) at the beginning of this season’s first episode. And I’m guessing that Daniel meets Charlotte in the past as a child, and tries to change things — but as his own mother once informed Desmond, he can’t. But that begs the question of what happens to them. How do they get back (to the future)? Is the whole island stuck in the past, so that when the Oceanic 6 do finally return, they’ll all be in one place? Or will they still be separated?
And what of the Oceanic 6? How will the others be convinced to return to the island? My big question is whether or not Desmond has to go with them. And what about Sun and Jin’s daughter? She was, I suppose, on the island with them, and it seems strange that Sun would just leave her behind. But she’s still in Korea, and Sun does indeed seem strangely unconcerned about that. And were Charlotte and Jin right about not bringing Sun back to the island at all? Should she really stay away?
As a final side note, both Sawyer and Ben seem to be cracking under the pressure. And at least on Sawyer’s end, who can blame him?
Next week’s episode looked pretty kickass from the preview. Discuss!
Hmm… I don’t think that they’re going to jump back to the past. I think the reason Daniel was in the first episode & that Charlotte remembers him telling her not to go back to the island is because Daniel has a weird ability to travel through time that he doesn’t fully recognize/understand. Of course, you could be completely right on this one, but I just like to make things more complicated, I think. =)
I had a few thoughts while watching this episode.
1) If it was so important for all of them to come back to the island together (Eloise told Ben and Jack’s father told Locke), then why is Eloise suddenly saying that just two of them will do for now? Something seems off there.
2) I’ve never been more interested in the Ben/Locke/leader of the Others predicament than after last night’s episode. If Jack’s father (possibly Jacob? who knows!!) is insisting that Locke do these things that Ben has been doing, then doesn’t that mean that his role in the goings-on of the island more important than we originally thought? But if that doesn’t mean he’s the leader, then what does it mean? It seems Ben has worked hard to convince Locke to do things his way but also seems to be doing all the things Locke is supposed to do (moving the island, gathering the Oceanic6, etc.). Is it b/c Ben wants to be the leader but thinks Locke is? I’M SO CONFUSED!
3) I need to stop reading so many theory sites b/c the episode was ruined for me. I’d read so many theories about almost every reveal on last night’s episode that nothing was that shocking to me. Arg.
Agreed.
I have no idea what it does mean, but I don’t think that it can mean that he’s supposed to be the leader. After all, whoever moves the island has to “leave forever” (which of course begs the question of whether Ben will go back, and how). If Locke’s not there, I don’t see how he can lead.
I am more confused than ever about what exactly unstuck the island in time. On the one hand, it seems pretty clear that it happened because Ben moved the island and the wheel went off its axis, perhaps because it wasn’t supposed to be Ben doing the moving. On the other hand, everyone keeps insisting it’s because the 6 left. So which is it?
Also, the stupidity of some of the characters right now is mind-numbing. Locke tells Sawyer, Juliet, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, and Jin that he’s going to leave the island via the Orchid. Why wouldn’t they try to come with him, or follow him? Or even ask if they could come? And if Jin cut the rope … so what? Isn’t there more rope? Couldn’t they use vines from the jungle or something? Argh.
I agree with this one. I imagine that they probably think that Locke has gone of the deep end and don’t believe him, or maybe think that it’s too dangerous. But you’re right that the question should at least be asked. And staying on the island right now seems pretty damn dangerous, too.
Well they could try vines. But they’d be less sturdy. And they wouldn’t know how many to tie together. (I thought my husband made a better point about stupidity when pointing out that Locke should have thrown a rock down the well to get an idea of how deep it was.) I mean, the thing is that I think they don’t have more rope. After all, they’re unstuck in time. Where are they going to find rope when they don’t know where/when they are and all their stuff is gone?
So maybe this theory has been thrown out before but if smokey made Danielle’s team sick is it possible that all of the Others/Natives are “sick” as well? They seem to think they “own” the island, they’re obsessed with protecting it etc.
Also, im highly dubious that Locke would have moved the island to the past, the producers have been constantly saying how they want to avoid the paradoxes that shows like Heroes creates, so I think they’d spare us the mindf*&k on that one. And why would Daniel try to change things in the past when he himself has explained to us that they’re are “rules” about what you can change?
Also, re: Lost vagina curse, have many more women than men died on the show? If we’re talking semi-main/main characters (appear in more than one season): Ana Lucia, Boone, Shannon, Charlie, Eko, Alex and Danielle R., Tom, maybe im missing a few but that’s 50/50 and the minor characters seem to distribute more or less the same.
All told, I was hoping for more answers than what we’ve gotten so far, but I guess that’s the point.
I’ve not only wondered about the “Lost” vagina curse, but also the curse of being a black person lost. I mean – Michael – went nuts, killed people, died. Eko, died. Nameless black woman Other – shot by the Russian. It seems like every time a black character is introduced on the island, they end up doing something horrible and then dying or just, you know, dying. It’s to the point where I’ve come to the conclusion that you do not want to be a black person on that show.
That niggling bothersome thing aside, I thought this episode was OK – no real surprises, though I did enjoy getting to see that Rosseau’s history on the island a bit. I always kind of wished she had been around a bit more – I found her crazy, but compelling.
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Celticfeminist, the actor who played Michael, Harold Perrineau, has agreed with you in interviews. He said that the show “has a problem with black people” and pissed off the LOST writers a great deal. But I think he’s also probably right.
I’ve been rewatching the seasons lately, and it’s really interesting to realize that although Danielle is a bit anti-social, she wasn’t crazy. And the fact that her shipmates really did get sick seals that fact.
So, did they get the “Other” treatment when they went to the temple? Did all the Others get that? Does Juliet know what’s down there?
For me, I’ve been thinking more about everyone’s dead/living/undead status. The undead is the one mystery that’s been around since the beginning that has been the least explained. From the very beginning Jack’s dad has been strolling around the island. Does the island need them back because they’re undead and aren’t supposed to be off? Do Ben and Widmore understand this, and this the basis of the rules they have? Like shooting Alex was somehow against the rules. It seems like it’s a rule that John has to die off the island in order to return. And it was a rule that Michael had to return to the island to die. Maybe the rules don’t say that Desmond has to come back because he’s not undead.
Seriously, no one gets their arm violently ripped off, then is well enough to sound like that guy did. Maybe the temple is some nexus.
And why would Daniel try to change things in the past when he himself has explained to us that they’re are “rules” about what you can change?
I think because he loved her and wanted to try everything/anything he possibly could to save her, even if unlikely it’d work. Didn’t even Ben say last season something along the lines that good command decisions are sometimes sacrificed in the face of emotional reactions?
After this episode I don’t think Charlotte was Annie. But I do think that Charlotte’s father is key, since he apparently stayed on the island. Maybe her father is Whidmore? Or it could be an Other. Ben seems a good decade older than Charlotte, for one, and secondly, wouldn’t Annie/Charlotte remember that her entire camp was killed?
Sun’s baby is in Korea with her mom, so I can see why she wouldn’t be too concerned. And the wedding ring is good proof that Jin is alive because they all thought he died by getting blown up on the boat. If he had been blown up, there would have been on way to recover that ring.
I’m glad they’re going back to the Rousseau/”sickness” story, since that seems pretty key and they haven’t addressed it in like two seasons. I can’t wait for them to get back to Libby and Walt, since they’re two characters who connect so many of the dots, but who haven’t been addressed in a looooong time.
And re: the sickness issue, it seems to me that the island is somehow capable of possessing individuals, right? Like the guy got sucked down the hole and then all of a sudden was like, “it’s gone, come help me!” and everyone else who went down came back out possessed.
Well, you’re forgetting Libby, who was pretty major. But I don’t think that the main characters distribute roughly the same. Looking at who’s left on the show makes that pretty obvious. We’ve got three women — Kate, Sun and Juliet. And I guess Eloise Hawking, if we maybe want to count her, now. (Rose has disappeared, but if we count her, she gets balanced out with Bernard anyway.) And how many guys? Hurley, Jack, Sawyer, Locke, Ben, Sayid, Miles, Faraday, and Jin, off the top of my head.
That’s why I think it got moved way back in time so that they’re not going to run into themselves and stuff. Anyway, I could be wrong, but it makes the most sense to me. It explains what Farady was doing with Dr. Candle, it explains how he could have said that to Charlotte, and it goes with the theory of the island being “moved.”
M, I know that the LOST producers have ruled out the purgatory theory, and I’m pretty sure they’ve ruled out the everyone is dead theory, too. If I’m reading your comment correctly.
Well, because she’s planning to go back to the island? Forever? Did they just not clue her in on the FOREVER aspect yet, and that’s why she’s not worried? That could be it. Maybe she just thinks it’s a temporary trip or something.
Well his body could have washed up on the shore, like Jin told Locke to tell her happened. It is admittedly the less likely of scenarios, but I’m not entirely sure that it’s logical to say “something that belonged to my dead husband! He must be alive!”
Oh, Desmond! How could I forget my beloved Des????
So yeah. That makes 10 men versus 3, maybe 4, women.
Re: vagina curse,
We’ve got three women — Kate, Sun and Juliet. . . . And how many guys? Hurley, Jack, Sawyer, Locke, Ben, Sayid, Miles, Faraday, and Jin, off the top of my head.
But I think that’s just a function of more male characters being added, not of female characters being killed off. Comparable numbers of women and men have died, but more new men have come on/been on the show in the first place. It’s definitely sexism, but it’s a different kind of sexism: maleness as neutral and/or men as greatly varied, not women as more disposable. If anything, I think the show is less willing to to physically hurt female characters. Men are constantly trying to protect women from harm, and the only times we’ve seen an extremely graphic death for humor, it’s been the death of a man (Arzt, Frogurt). Also, among major characters, while women’s deaths are typically portrayed as sad and/or unjust (Charlotte, Shannon, Ana Lucia, Libby), men’s deaths are sometimes portrayed as downright appropriate: we shed know tears for Tom, we admire Charlie’s self-sacrifice, and when we thought Jin was dead, as much as we mourned, I think the writers clearly intended for us to see it as basically appropriate: there’s no way we could risk Kate, Aaron, Sun and Sun’s baby for Jin. Would Jack have forced Jin onto the helicopter if he’d been going back after Kate? No way.
But Des is balanced by Penny, no?
Well I think that Des is an indisputably larger character.
I agree that they definitely add more male characters to the show, but isn’t that all the more reason to not kill off the female ones? We got 4 tail section people, split evenly — only one man got to live. We got 5 main freighter people, Naomi, Daniel, Miles, Charlotte and Frank. Frank left the island, Naomi and Charlotte both end up dead, Daniel and Miles fine. Danielle brought on as extra female character, lasted a long time but now dead. Alex, dead.
This is the thing — they clearly need more female characters on the show, but every time they introduce one, they keep fucking killing them! It’s not that they’re necessarily killing more men than women, it’s that they’re killing a hugely disproportionate number of women total to the number on the show.
And while I think you’re right that Jack definitely would have gone back for Kate, I think that’s just about the fact that he’s in love with her more than the fact that she’s a woman. I honestly do think that Jack would have insisted on getting Sawyer, too (because despite their constant arguments those two totally do love each other).
Ohh right I didn’t think about that. I just assumed she thought it was temporary.
no one gets their arm violently ripped off, then is well enough to sound like that guy did
I assumed that was the smoke monster imitating him. Remember, it’s definitely imitated Yemi (Eko’s brother) and may have appeared in the guise of any number of other characters.
“Also, the stupidity of some of the characters right now is mind-numbing. Locke tells Sawyer, Juliet, Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, and Jin that he’s going to leave the island via the Orchid. Why wouldn’t they try to come with him, or follow him? Or even ask if they could come? And if Jin cut the rope … so what? Isn’t there more rope? Couldn’t they use vines from the jungle or something? Argh.”
Actually, Jin *did* try to go with Locke, he stated that he was going with him. But I don’t think it is lacking in logic that they believe Locke when he says it can only be a single person, and if the point is to bring the others *back* it creates more potential trouble if even more of them leave.
I just want to know what the dealio is with Smokey the smoke monster. There was the machinery/clunking sounds when he was out and about again. What’s that line from Evolution? “Black dude always dies first.”
I think that the woman stuck in time back in England (who was part of Faraday’s experiment) is Charlotte’s mom (or even Charlotte herself? Twin? Something?). There were too many visual similarities between the scene when Charlotte was dying and the scene when Desmond goes to see the woman in the coma (or whatever). The hair, the crossed hands, the mumbling through time…
Cara, those are good points about Naomi and Charlotte and other short-lived female characters, I hadn’t thought f it quite that way. And you’re right that men and women dying at equal rates actually is disproportionate since there are fewer women to begin with. So, points fully conceded there.
And while I think you’re right that Jack definitely would have gone back for Kate, I think that’s just about the fact that he’s in love with her more than the fact that she’s a woman. I honestly do think that Jack would have insisted on getting Sawyer, too (because despite their constant arguments those two totally do love each other).
Two things. Firstly, the fact that Jack is in love with her is not unrelated to the fact that she’s a woman. The show (like most mainstream media) is from the straight male perspective — the love interest getting saved is always a woman. Jin is Sun’s love interest, but that doesn’t matter vis-a-vis getting saved.
Secondly, I’m really not sure Jack would have risked Kate to save Sawyer. Jack didn’t stop Sawyer from jumping out of the helicopter — do you think he would have stopped him if he’d had the chance?
With regards to the LOST vagina curse (especially sine I’ve apparently already convinced you, Daisy!), all I’m going to say is that as soon as I saw Charlotte for the first time, I thought to myself “oh yay, a new female character! Finally!” Then I turned to my husband and said “let’s hope they don’t kill this one, too.” Seriously. Actually happened.
I do agree with your points prior to that one. But men have saved other men on the show, or at least attempted to, and risked their lives to do so. I also think the helicopter was different, as it was low enough to the water and Sawyer a strong enough swimmer to reasonably assume that he would be okay. I think that getting him to the boat versus him actually dying is a different story.
Then again, they admittedly would have likely never committed this scenario. But while we’re having a debate around hypothetical scenarios that are likely to never happen on the show, do you think that Jack would have been anymore likely to risk Kate for Sun than he would be for Sawyer?
Due to Charlotte’s death, I don’t think that Charlotte is Annie. I figured it was a possibility while she was alive but I think the show would’ve made that reveal while Charlotte was alive, not posthumously. Although considering how Lost deals with death, I guess it’s a possibility her story isn’t over yet.
But while we’re having a debate around hypothetical scenarios that are likely to never happen on the show, do you think that Jack would have been anymore likely to risk Kate for Sun than he would be for Sawyer?
Ooo, good one. Pregnant Sun? Yes. Not pregnant Sun? I don’t know.