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	<title>Comments on: Feministe Feedback: Dealing with Bullying</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:14:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Samuel</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/#comment-228066</link>
		<dc:creator>Samuel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 23 Feb 2009 10:17:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11782#comment-228066</guid>
		<description>That&#039;s a horrible situation. I would take the log above the principles head, and higher if need be.

My personal situation growing up included being bullied and socially isolated for a number of years. I learned that the only response bullies will respond to is escalation. Most of which is not physical but involves identifying the insecurities of the bully and verbally cutting at them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That&#8217;s a horrible situation. I would take the log above the principles head, and higher if need be.</p>
<p>My personal situation growing up included being bullied and socially isolated for a number of years. I learned that the only response bullies will respond to is escalation. Most of which is not physical but involves identifying the insecurities of the bully and verbally cutting at them.</p>
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		<title>By: Cecily</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/#comment-227991</link>
		<dc:creator>Cecily</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 22 Feb 2009 21:05:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11782#comment-227991</guid>
		<description>From the list of events in Kat&#039;s blog post, it looks like most of the incidents are verbal abuse, not violence. (3 of the 9 incidents mention pushing or hitting.) I feel like the comments here urging Movie Boy to &quot;hit back&quot; are overlooking this.

Social cruelty is a complex issue, and unlikely to be resolved by escalating to violence. That response can feed into the tormentors&#039; view of the child as &#039;extreme&#039;, socially awkward, &#039;weird&#039; and lesser.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the list of events in Kat&#8217;s blog post, it looks like most of the incidents are verbal abuse, not violence. (3 of the 9 incidents mention pushing or hitting.) I feel like the comments here urging Movie Boy to &#8220;hit back&#8221; are overlooking this.</p>
<p>Social cruelty is a complex issue, and unlikely to be resolved by escalating to violence. That response can feed into the tormentors&#8217; view of the child as &#8216;extreme&#8217;, socially awkward, &#8216;weird&#8217; and lesser.</p>
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		<title>By: Sailorman</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/#comment-227770</link>
		<dc:creator>Sailorman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:17:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11782#comment-227770</guid>
		<description>This just gets my hackles up--against the school, not against you.

My advice is to document, document, document.  Send letters certified or with proof of mailing.

If you communicate with them, you may find it tempting to go into emotions.  Don&#039;t, if you can avoid it.  You need to come across as &quot;rational&quot; or more accurately you need to avoid getting tagged as &quot;emotional.&quot;

As an example, 

GOOD: &quot;On September 19, 2009, while Movie Boy was waiting for the bus at 9:15 AM, Big Bully approached him and punched him repeatedly in the face, causing damage to his cheek.&quot;

BAD: &quot;Big Bully keeps beating up my son.&quot;

You appear to be doing an excellent job so far.  Keep sending them facts, documented in writing.  DO NOT make any reports orally, unless you also follow up with them in writing.  Followups are great:  &quot;This letter is to confirm my oral report as made to Principal Screwup on 1/1/2009, in which I reported that ____.  Please inform me in writing of the plan for action in response to this incident&quot; and so on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This just gets my hackles up&#8211;against the school, not against you.</p>
<p>My advice is to document, document, document.  Send letters certified or with proof of mailing.</p>
<p>If you communicate with them, you may find it tempting to go into emotions.  Don&#8217;t, if you can avoid it.  You need to come across as &#8220;rational&#8221; or more accurately you need to avoid getting tagged as &#8220;emotional.&#8221;</p>
<p>As an example, </p>
<p>GOOD: &#8220;On September 19, 2009, while Movie Boy was waiting for the bus at 9:15 AM, Big Bully approached him and punched him repeatedly in the face, causing damage to his cheek.&#8221;</p>
<p>BAD: &#8220;Big Bully keeps beating up my son.&#8221;</p>
<p>You appear to be doing an excellent job so far.  Keep sending them facts, documented in writing.  DO NOT make any reports orally, unless you also follow up with them in writing.  Followups are great:  &#8220;This letter is to confirm my oral report as made to Principal Screwup on 1/1/2009, in which I reported that ____.  Please inform me in writing of the plan for action in response to this incident&#8221; and so on.</p>
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		<title>By: erica</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/#comment-227751</link>
		<dc:creator>erica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 15:26:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11782#comment-227751</guid>
		<description>http://www.dontlaugh.org/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.dontlaugh.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.dontlaugh.org/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Ben Leichtling</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/#comment-227717</link>
		<dc:creator>Ben Leichtling</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 20 Feb 2009 03:19:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11782#comment-227717</guid>
		<description>Hi Kat,

Thanks for the great post.

Don’t ignore bullying.  Minimizing, ignoring, begging and bribery don’t stop or convert bullies.

The bullies already told you that they aren’t going to stop on their own and the administration and teachers aren’t stopping it.

Fighting is a choice, but not in this case.  In this case, parents (you) have to do the work.

Focus on the school administrator – he/she controls the culture.  This one sounds like a coward – more interested in protecting kids who initiate verbal and physical bullying and, perhaps, more worried about not getting sued by the parents of bullies who will attack him/her if their kids are thwarted from bullying.

Keeping an eye on things is nonsense.  Good administrators and teachers know what going on; who the bullies are and who they victimize.  Good administrators and teachers have zero-tolerance and act swiftly.

The keys to getting cowardly or uncaring administrators to act are the law, publicity (especially of a pervasive pattern) and documentation.  Show up with a knowledgeable lawyer.  Be firm.  Let the administrator know that if effective action isn’t taken, you’re a greater threat than the parents of the bullies.  Use any allies you can (teachers, other parents).

Disclosure: In addition to having six children, I’m a practical, pragmatic coach and consultant.  I’ve written, “How to Stop Bullies in their Tracks.”  Please see my book, “Parenting Bully-Proof Kids” for a few choice words about cowardly administrators.  Also, check out my website and blog at BulliesBeGone (http://www.BulliesBeGone.com).

You’ll need to persevere and be resilient.

Good luck and best wishes,
Ben</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Kat,</p>
<p>Thanks for the great post.</p>
<p>Don’t ignore bullying.  Minimizing, ignoring, begging and bribery don’t stop or convert bullies.</p>
<p>The bullies already told you that they aren’t going to stop on their own and the administration and teachers aren’t stopping it.</p>
<p>Fighting is a choice, but not in this case.  In this case, parents (you) have to do the work.</p>
<p>Focus on the school administrator – he/she controls the culture.  This one sounds like a coward – more interested in protecting kids who initiate verbal and physical bullying and, perhaps, more worried about not getting sued by the parents of bullies who will attack him/her if their kids are thwarted from bullying.</p>
<p>Keeping an eye on things is nonsense.  Good administrators and teachers know what going on; who the bullies are and who they victimize.  Good administrators and teachers have zero-tolerance and act swiftly.</p>
<p>The keys to getting cowardly or uncaring administrators to act are the law, publicity (especially of a pervasive pattern) and documentation.  Show up with a knowledgeable lawyer.  Be firm.  Let the administrator know that if effective action isn’t taken, you’re a greater threat than the parents of the bullies.  Use any allies you can (teachers, other parents).</p>
<p>Disclosure: In addition to having six children, I’m a practical, pragmatic coach and consultant.  I’ve written, “How to Stop Bullies in their Tracks.”  Please see my book, “Parenting Bully-Proof Kids” for a few choice words about cowardly administrators.  Also, check out my website and blog at BulliesBeGone (<a href="http://www.BulliesBeGone.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.BulliesBeGone.com</a>).</p>
<p>You’ll need to persevere and be resilient.</p>
<p>Good luck and best wishes,<br />
Ben</p>
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		<title>By: Titanis walleri</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/#comment-227703</link>
		<dc:creator>Titanis walleri</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 23:58:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11782#comment-227703</guid>
		<description>&quot;I was still told to ignore it or just “tell the teacher”. Yeah. Telling the teacher didn’t work.&quot;
This. The teachers never give a damn, and it just gets you a reputation as a &quot;tattle-tale&quot; (why this is a bad thing, I never understood, but it&#039;s a mindset that continues into adult life)...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I was still told to ignore it or just “tell the teacher”. Yeah. Telling the teacher didn’t work.&#8221;<br />
This. The teachers never give a damn, and it just gets you a reputation as a &#8220;tattle-tale&#8221; (why this is a bad thing, I never understood, but it&#8217;s a mindset that continues into adult life)&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: CTD</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/#comment-227675</link>
		<dc:creator>CTD</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 22:08:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11782#comment-227675</guid>
		<description>Absolutely fight back. Deck the snots bothering you a couple of times and 90% of the time the problem will go away. So what if you&#039;re punished by the school? Who cares? The brief suspension I served in middle school was well worth not having to put up with that crap anymore.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Absolutely fight back. Deck the snots bothering you a couple of times and 90% of the time the problem will go away. So what if you&#8217;re punished by the school? Who cares? The brief suspension I served in middle school was well worth not having to put up with that crap anymore.</p>
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		<title>By: Henry</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/#comment-227639</link>
		<dc:creator>Henry</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 17:54:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11782#comment-227639</guid>
		<description>&quot;3) if he were to attempt to take a kid on, and then lose, it would be worse than before.&quot;



Losing is okay. Hell, losing is to be expected, but won&#039;t likely make things worse. The key thing is for him to be willing to go back at his antagonist even when he knows he will lose. That&#039;s what raises the cost/benefit ratio in his favor. It&#039;s a respect thing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;3) if he were to attempt to take a kid on, and then lose, it would be worse than before.&#8221;</p>
<p>Losing is okay. Hell, losing is to be expected, but won&#8217;t likely make things worse. The key thing is for him to be willing to go back at his antagonist even when he knows he will lose. That&#8217;s what raises the cost/benefit ratio in his favor. It&#8217;s a respect thing.</p>
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		<title>By: ACG</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/#comment-227632</link>
		<dc:creator>ACG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 16:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11782#comment-227632</guid>
		<description>Fighting back can be a messy, messy thing, especially when it&#039;s complicated with something like Asperger&#039;s that already makes him stand out to the administration. That said, I think my advice would still have to be to fight back.

The fact that you&#039;ve documented it and repeatedly taken it to the administration might actually work in your favor. I went through something in middle school where I was constantly tormented by one guy until I hauled off and whacked him, starting a scuffle. Since I&#039;d been going to the principal about it ever since the bullying started (although she did nothing about it), they knew what had precipitated the fight and I only got one day of suspension (he got three). And yeah, I knew I was going to get in trouble, but it was worth it to me just that one time.

Best of luck to you and Movie Boy. These things are hard enough to handle for kids who are good at social interaction; for kids with ASD, it has to be a nightmare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fighting back can be a messy, messy thing, especially when it&#8217;s complicated with something like Asperger&#8217;s that already makes him stand out to the administration. That said, I think my advice would still have to be to fight back.</p>
<p>The fact that you&#8217;ve documented it and repeatedly taken it to the administration might actually work in your favor. I went through something in middle school where I was constantly tormented by one guy until I hauled off and whacked him, starting a scuffle. Since I&#8217;d been going to the principal about it ever since the bullying started (although she did nothing about it), they knew what had precipitated the fight and I only got one day of suspension (he got three). And yeah, I knew I was going to get in trouble, but it was worth it to me just that one time.</p>
<p>Best of luck to you and Movie Boy. These things are hard enough to handle for kids who are good at social interaction; for kids with ASD, it has to be a nightmare.</p>
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		<title>By: Laurie in Mpls.</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/18/feministe-feedback-dealing-with-bullying/#comment-227627</link>
		<dc:creator>Laurie in Mpls.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Feb 2009 15:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11782#comment-227627</guid>
		<description>Kat said:
1) the school policy specifically states that retribution for bullying will be punished.

Now THAT, in my opinion, is screwed up.  :(  I don&#039;t condone physical violence, but do reluctantly agree than on occasion, it may be the only way to get the point across to people of a certain age group.  Being deprived of that &quot;tool&quot; is essentially victim blaming.  Especially since ignoring teasing/bullying/threatening behavior DOES. NOT. WORK.  Unless you are bright enough to never, ever react poorly to the teasing, and that includes the very first time it happens, it just escalates until the bully figures out how to MAKE you react.

I&#039;m sorry -- I really think the teachers need to step up to the plate on this one and make it known to their students just what kind of behavior will simply not be tolerated and then *do something about it*.  That PhysEd teacher who claims to be &quot;keeping an eye on the situation&quot; is quite possibly in the position to make the most difference, and is shirking his responsibilities.  (Ass.)

Best of luck to you and Movie Boy.  Let him know he has a whole lot of adults on his side, even if they are internet people.  (If that would make a difference to him.  Not sure it would have to me. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kat said:<br />
1) the school policy specifically states that retribution for bullying will be punished.</p>
<p>Now THAT, in my opinion, is screwed up.  :(  I don&#8217;t condone physical violence, but do reluctantly agree than on occasion, it may be the only way to get the point across to people of a certain age group.  Being deprived of that &#8220;tool&#8221; is essentially victim blaming.  Especially since ignoring teasing/bullying/threatening behavior DOES. NOT. WORK.  Unless you are bright enough to never, ever react poorly to the teasing, and that includes the very first time it happens, it just escalates until the bully figures out how to MAKE you react.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sorry &#8212; I really think the teachers need to step up to the plate on this one and make it known to their students just what kind of behavior will simply not be tolerated and then *do something about it*.  That PhysEd teacher who claims to be &#8220;keeping an eye on the situation&#8221; is quite possibly in the position to make the most difference, and is shirking his responsibilities.  (Ass.)</p>
<p>Best of luck to you and Movie Boy.  Let him know he has a whole lot of adults on his side, even if they are internet people.  (If that would make a difference to him.  Not sure it would have to me. ;)</p>
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