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	<title>Comments on: Feministe Feedback: Anti-Rape Resources for Men</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
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		<title>By: zooeyibz</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/#comment-228849</link>
		<dc:creator>zooeyibz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:28:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11923#comment-228849</guid>
		<description>This is easily the most upsetting thing I&#039;ve read all week. And I read a LOT of upsetting things. Rather than vent here I&#039;ve posted a response on my own blog, please follow the link to &lt;a href=&quot;http://irresponsibility.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/not-rape-not-a-difficult-concept/&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt; &#039;Not Rape - Not a Difficult Concept&#039; &lt;/a&gt;if you&#039;re interested.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is easily the most upsetting thing I&#8217;ve read all week. And I read a LOT of upsetting things. Rather than vent here I&#8217;ve posted a response on my own blog, please follow the link to <a href="http://irresponsibility.wordpress.com/2009/02/28/not-rape-not-a-difficult-concept/" rel="nofollow"> &#8216;Not Rape &#8211; Not a Difficult Concept&#8217; </a>if you&#8217;re interested.</p>
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		<title>By: Not Rape - Not a Difficult Concept &#171; Irresponsibility</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/#comment-228848</link>
		<dc:creator>Not Rape - Not a Difficult Concept &#171; Irresponsibility</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Feb 2009 05:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11923#comment-228848</guid>
		<description>[...] I see the headline: &#8220;Anti-rape resources for men&#8221; I assume it is an article (however superflous) teaching men to how avoid being raped. Alas, in [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I see the headline: &#8220;Anti-rape resources for men&#8221; I assume it is an article (however superflous) teaching men to how avoid being raped. Alas, in [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Rape: A Pro-Choice Crime? : The Raving Theist</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/#comment-228518</link>
		<dc:creator>Rape: A Pro-Choice Crime? : The Raving Theist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Feb 2009 16:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11923#comment-228518</guid>
		<description>[...] to be going in America&#8217;s hottest hotbed of liberalism, the college campus. Consider this recent post in Feministe about &#8220;Anti-Rape Resources for Men.&#8221; In response to an e-mail from a female college [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] to be going in America&#8217;s hottest hotbed of liberalism, the college campus. Consider this recent post in Feministe about &#8220;Anti-Rape Resources for Men.&#8221; In response to an e-mail from a female college [...]</p>
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		<title>By: William</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/#comment-228424</link>
		<dc:creator>William</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 23:08:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11923#comment-228424</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;College rapes could end in a matter of months, or even weeks, if people were brave enough to do what needs to be done.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

If we just had the &lt;i&gt;pure force of will to do what needs to be done&lt;/i&gt; we could end college rapes swiftly! All we need to do is...what? Have the courage of your jackboots and come right on out and say what you mean. Advocating violent vigilantism with a nudge and a wink stinks not only of cowardice and authoritarianism. 

I think the bigger problem with what you&#039;re suggesting, Marz, is that you&#039;re attacking a symptom without considering the precipitating factors. Rape is a complex crime that comes from a lot of different drives, perceptions, and attitudes coming together to allow a perpetrator to convince himself that he has the right. A big part of that is how society views and treats women. Another big part of that is how society tells men to deal with problems. Society tells us that women are weak and in need of protection, but included in that message is that women are inferior. The same thing that whips up a protective instinct in you lets a rapist see a woman as inhuman enough to be an object upon which he make take out his competing sexual and aggressive drives. Society also tells us that men ought to respond to problems with force, because strength (and, by extension, dominance) is a condition of worth. You take that message and talk about being &#039;brave enough to do what needs to be done,&quot; a rapist hears that might makes right. 

In both cases what you have is a proposed response to campus rape that accepts the social messages which incite it. You take the focus from the victim, you devote resources to (likely male) revenge, you respond to aggression with aggression. You reinforce those social values which served to foment the crime in your response. You do this because you believe that an act which is essentially about violent dominance will somehow be curbed if you are violent and dominant enough to scare the inferior beasts away. What you fail to consider is that you&#039;re just training better beasts.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>College rapes could end in a matter of months, or even weeks, if people were brave enough to do what needs to be done.</p></blockquote>
<p>If we just had the <i>pure force of will to do what needs to be done</i> we could end college rapes swiftly! All we need to do is&#8230;what? Have the courage of your jackboots and come right on out and say what you mean. Advocating violent vigilantism with a nudge and a wink stinks not only of cowardice and authoritarianism. </p>
<p>I think the bigger problem with what you&#8217;re suggesting, Marz, is that you&#8217;re attacking a symptom without considering the precipitating factors. Rape is a complex crime that comes from a lot of different drives, perceptions, and attitudes coming together to allow a perpetrator to convince himself that he has the right. A big part of that is how society views and treats women. Another big part of that is how society tells men to deal with problems. Society tells us that women are weak and in need of protection, but included in that message is that women are inferior. The same thing that whips up a protective instinct in you lets a rapist see a woman as inhuman enough to be an object upon which he make take out his competing sexual and aggressive drives. Society also tells us that men ought to respond to problems with force, because strength (and, by extension, dominance) is a condition of worth. You take that message and talk about being &#8216;brave enough to do what needs to be done,&#8221; a rapist hears that might makes right. </p>
<p>In both cases what you have is a proposed response to campus rape that accepts the social messages which incite it. You take the focus from the victim, you devote resources to (likely male) revenge, you respond to aggression with aggression. You reinforce those social values which served to foment the crime in your response. You do this because you believe that an act which is essentially about violent dominance will somehow be curbed if you are violent and dominant enough to scare the inferior beasts away. What you fail to consider is that you&#8217;re just training better beasts.</p>
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		<title>By: Lisa</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/#comment-228377</link>
		<dc:creator>Lisa</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 17:55:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11923#comment-228377</guid>
		<description>To what Ashley said about the complexity of prevention work - agreed - it is ESSENTIAL to have a hired, professional, and committed individual to do this kind of work at the college level.  There are a few exceptions, but unfortunately, most univ./colleges view this work as a sidebar and don&#039;t give it the primary resources and funding it needs.
And, to be clear, I was putting this forward in advisement for students involvement, but the responsibility needs to two fold - from students and from the institution.  How reporting is handled, the college judicial system and protocol, to hiring qualified professionals resides in the hands of administration.

Rape prevention on college campuses is multifaceted and needs to be considered at all levels for it to produce change.  Most of this work, though, is projected to women&#039;s centers (or something similar) and is not considered a campus crisis for all to take initiative.

Another point of agreement I have with Ashley is that it absolutely needs a radical commitment and ideology to social justice.  Unfortunately, most institutions of higher ed do lip service in this department, but student activism can never be overestimated!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To what Ashley said about the complexity of prevention work &#8211; agreed &#8211; it is ESSENTIAL to have a hired, professional, and committed individual to do this kind of work at the college level.  There are a few exceptions, but unfortunately, most univ./colleges view this work as a sidebar and don&#8217;t give it the primary resources and funding it needs.<br />
And, to be clear, I was putting this forward in advisement for students involvement, but the responsibility needs to two fold &#8211; from students and from the institution.  How reporting is handled, the college judicial system and protocol, to hiring qualified professionals resides in the hands of administration.</p>
<p>Rape prevention on college campuses is multifaceted and needs to be considered at all levels for it to produce change.  Most of this work, though, is projected to women&#8217;s centers (or something similar) and is not considered a campus crisis for all to take initiative.</p>
<p>Another point of agreement I have with Ashley is that it absolutely needs a radical commitment and ideology to social justice.  Unfortunately, most institutions of higher ed do lip service in this department, but student activism can never be overestimated!</p>
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		<title>By: Marz Ringo</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/#comment-228339</link>
		<dc:creator>Marz Ringo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 06:22:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11923#comment-228339</guid>
		<description>I see a few people have mentioned programs instituted by the college where people, especially victims, can go, for support.  I&#039;m sure there are colleges with great programs.  But i&#039;ve also heard some horror stories.  I&#039;ve heard bad things from professional journalists as well as detectives who are experts in sexual assault. I stood there as a detective told a young victim that she was smart for not going to the school first. Eventually, she did though, and like many, realized the school couldn&#039;t possibly care less. Now let me say i&#039;ve heard this about a couple prestigious universities and realize that it may well be different for other schools.  

But there have been cases where victims go to the school first, and this ends up being a big mistake.  Basically, they end up taking advantage of the victim by telling her the school will take care of it.  Sure, they may help her out as far as seeking therapy, entering programs, etc.  But their main goal is to make sure that the victim does NOT under any circumstances press charges or bring negative attention onto the school.  As i said, this is a form of complicity.

College rapes could end in a matter of months, or even weeks, if people were brave enough to do what needs to be done.  I&#039;ve known plenty of bad guys; rapists, murderers, drug dealers, sociopaths, etc.  And let me tell you... a snarky slogan or funny little sketch isn&#039;t exactly going to get the job done.  Making this issue humorous is a bad idea.

Just look at other struggles in our nation&#039;s history.  Look at the workers&#039; struggle or slavery.  They did what had to be done.  They didn&#039;t make light of their plight in order to make things a bit less tense.  That&#039;s just frivolous.  They did what they had to do.  You get a few  brave people to do what they SHOULD do.  That attracts media attention.  Others follow their lead.  And watch as the rates dwindle.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see a few people have mentioned programs instituted by the college where people, especially victims, can go, for support.  I&#8217;m sure there are colleges with great programs.  But i&#8217;ve also heard some horror stories.  I&#8217;ve heard bad things from professional journalists as well as detectives who are experts in sexual assault. I stood there as a detective told a young victim that she was smart for not going to the school first. Eventually, she did though, and like many, realized the school couldn&#8217;t possibly care less. Now let me say i&#8217;ve heard this about a couple prestigious universities and realize that it may well be different for other schools.  </p>
<p>But there have been cases where victims go to the school first, and this ends up being a big mistake.  Basically, they end up taking advantage of the victim by telling her the school will take care of it.  Sure, they may help her out as far as seeking therapy, entering programs, etc.  But their main goal is to make sure that the victim does NOT under any circumstances press charges or bring negative attention onto the school.  As i said, this is a form of complicity.</p>
<p>College rapes could end in a matter of months, or even weeks, if people were brave enough to do what needs to be done.  I&#8217;ve known plenty of bad guys; rapists, murderers, drug dealers, sociopaths, etc.  And let me tell you&#8230; a snarky slogan or funny little sketch isn&#8217;t exactly going to get the job done.  Making this issue humorous is a bad idea.</p>
<p>Just look at other struggles in our nation&#8217;s history.  Look at the workers&#8217; struggle or slavery.  They did what had to be done.  They didn&#8217;t make light of their plight in order to make things a bit less tense.  That&#8217;s just frivolous.  They did what they had to do.  You get a few  brave people to do what they SHOULD do.  That attracts media attention.  Others follow their lead.  And watch as the rates dwindle.</p>
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		<title>By: Judith</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/#comment-228318</link>
		<dc:creator>Judith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 25 Feb 2009 01:18:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11923#comment-228318</guid>
		<description>If you haven&#039;t already, I&#039;d strongly recommend you read the book Yes Means Yes, just to get into your head some interesting ideas about what an ideal rape-free culture would look like, and what that means for men.  I think most men (and many women) have never thought about the idea of enthusiastic consent.  Even as an educated, pro-women&#039;s rights female in my first year of law school I&#039;m embarassed to say that I thought requiring the woman to say &quot;yes&quot; affirmatively was silly and unworkable, and that silence was consent.  I wouldn&#039;t be surprised if a lot of guys are operating under the same framework.  Also, I&#039;d recommend that you get in contact with campus police about changing those suggestions to be less sexist.  We had the same problem at my school (University of Iowa).  The police sent out this absolutely infuriating e-mail warning women never to do laundry or get into an elevator alone, for example, with nothing about how men shouldn&#039;t, you know, *rape women*.  Very frustrating.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If you haven&#8217;t already, I&#8217;d strongly recommend you read the book Yes Means Yes, just to get into your head some interesting ideas about what an ideal rape-free culture would look like, and what that means for men.  I think most men (and many women) have never thought about the idea of enthusiastic consent.  Even as an educated, pro-women&#8217;s rights female in my first year of law school I&#8217;m embarassed to say that I thought requiring the woman to say &#8220;yes&#8221; affirmatively was silly and unworkable, and that silence was consent.  I wouldn&#8217;t be surprised if a lot of guys are operating under the same framework.  Also, I&#8217;d recommend that you get in contact with campus police about changing those suggestions to be less sexist.  We had the same problem at my school (University of Iowa).  The police sent out this absolutely infuriating e-mail warning women never to do laundry or get into an elevator alone, for example, with nothing about how men shouldn&#8217;t, you know, *rape women*.  Very frustrating.</p>
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		<title>By: Ashley</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/#comment-228300</link>
		<dc:creator>Ashley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 22:54:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11923#comment-228300</guid>
		<description>I agree with most of what Lisa says, though I don&#039;t think students should really be spending much time on prevention efforts themselves.  First, research shows that college students do not respond to training on sexual assault by their peers.  It doesn&#039;t work.  For whatever reason, when it comes to sexual violence education, students respond to an authority figure, not a peer.

Second, students graduate after four years, and they are busy.  It is very difficult to keep a sexual assault prevention program afloat and of consistent quality through constant student turnover, especially if no one is being paid for their efforts.  

Sexual assault prevention is a difficult, complex field, and the person doing it should be trained and paid full-time.  They should be reading all the latest research on what works and what doesn&#039;t, and they should know all about the various prevention programs out there.  Personally, I&#039;d add that they should be pretty radical if you really want their efforts to work (one thing I&#039;d note about Lisa&#039;s suggestion to find your local sexual assault coordinator is that often, rape crisis center employees/volunteers lack the kind of radical analysis I feel is necessary for effectiveness--it&#039;s good to contact whoever is in your area, but be aware that people in the field have varying levels of commitment to radical social change).

I think that the job of students is ensuring that each college &lt;em&gt;funds&lt;/em&gt; prevention staff and programming, not trying to provide the programming themselves.

And  &lt;a href=&quot;www.safercampus.org&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;SAFER&lt;/a&gt;, the group I work with, trains students in the organizing skills that can help them pressure their colleges to fund and implement such programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with most of what Lisa says, though I don&#8217;t think students should really be spending much time on prevention efforts themselves.  First, research shows that college students do not respond to training on sexual assault by their peers.  It doesn&#8217;t work.  For whatever reason, when it comes to sexual violence education, students respond to an authority figure, not a peer.</p>
<p>Second, students graduate after four years, and they are busy.  It is very difficult to keep a sexual assault prevention program afloat and of consistent quality through constant student turnover, especially if no one is being paid for their efforts.  </p>
<p>Sexual assault prevention is a difficult, complex field, and the person doing it should be trained and paid full-time.  They should be reading all the latest research on what works and what doesn&#8217;t, and they should know all about the various prevention programs out there.  Personally, I&#8217;d add that they should be pretty radical if you really want their efforts to work (one thing I&#8217;d note about Lisa&#8217;s suggestion to find your local sexual assault coordinator is that often, rape crisis center employees/volunteers lack the kind of radical analysis I feel is necessary for effectiveness&#8211;it&#8217;s good to contact whoever is in your area, but be aware that people in the field have varying levels of commitment to radical social change).</p>
<p>I think that the job of students is ensuring that each college <em>funds</em> prevention staff and programming, not trying to provide the programming themselves.</p>
<p>And  <a href="www.safercampus.org" rel="nofollow">SAFER</a>, the group I work with, trains students in the organizing skills that can help them pressure their colleges to fund and implement such programs.</p>
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		<title>By: a</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/#comment-228293</link>
		<dc:creator>a</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:27:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11923#comment-228293</guid>
		<description>I would like to echo the sentiments regarding the Student Group 1 in 4.  The university i work for has a fledgling group just getting off the ground and i attended a presentation they did last week. Maybe there is a fledgling group on your campus too just waiting for some publicity or support?

My other suggestions would be to get in touch with your Universities Women&#039;s Center (if you are fortunate enough to have one), if not, check with your Universities Health Educator, Counseling Dept, or Victims Support Services.  These office are made to be a resource to students and as someone working in higher ed i can say that we rely on student interest and involvement to see change on campus.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would like to echo the sentiments regarding the Student Group 1 in 4.  The university i work for has a fledgling group just getting off the ground and i attended a presentation they did last week. Maybe there is a fledgling group on your campus too just waiting for some publicity or support?</p>
<p>My other suggestions would be to get in touch with your Universities Women&#8217;s Center (if you are fortunate enough to have one), if not, check with your Universities Health Educator, Counseling Dept, or Victims Support Services.  These office are made to be a resource to students and as someone working in higher ed i can say that we rely on student interest and involvement to see change on campus.</p>
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		<title>By: Liv</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/02/23/feministe-feedback-anti-rape-resources-for-men/#comment-228271</link>
		<dc:creator>Liv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 24 Feb 2009 19:43:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=11923#comment-228271</guid>
		<description>we have a wonderful program at my school, and one of the groups I&#039;m in has been running for a long time. Our website&#039;s got tons of wonderful information and resources, if I remember correctly, like we post our minutes from our meetings, talk about our campaigns, have resources up there, etc.-www.studentsstoppingrape.org. If there are any rape crisis centers around you, they&#039;ll probably be more than willing to help you out :) RAINN&#039;s got a list of RCC&#039;s on their website. Remember, persistence counts, the work itself of fighting sexual violence is very slow (as you probably already know), and don&#039;t worry about starting off big-start slow and build up, otherwise you might get disappointed. A 3-person group can&#039;t do as much as a 20-person group can (so recruitment/advertising might be good to focus on

Since you&#039;re on a campus, there should be a sexual assault counselor, maybe they could help you find what&#039;s already going on at your school or start something up like a student group</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>we have a wonderful program at my school, and one of the groups I&#8217;m in has been running for a long time. Our website&#8217;s got tons of wonderful information and resources, if I remember correctly, like we post our minutes from our meetings, talk about our campaigns, have resources up there, etc.-www.studentsstoppingrape.org. If there are any rape crisis centers around you, they&#8217;ll probably be more than willing to help you out :) RAINN&#8217;s got a list of RCC&#8217;s on their website. Remember, persistence counts, the work itself of fighting sexual violence is very slow (as you probably already know), and don&#8217;t worry about starting off big-start slow and build up, otherwise you might get disappointed. A 3-person group can&#8217;t do as much as a 20-person group can (so recruitment/advertising might be good to focus on</p>
<p>Since you&#8217;re on a campus, there should be a sexual assault counselor, maybe they could help you find what&#8217;s already going on at your school or start something up like a student group</p>
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