There’s a difference between writing as if ALL women experience the same thing, and a woman writing about her experience of that. We can only write about our own experiences.

I do accept that non-white women often aren’t treated as weaker/ less capable.

I don’t disagree with Little Light. I’d say sexism affects all women, but plays out in different ways for different women depending on many factors including race, class, ability etc….I completely agree feminist writing should not write as if the white middle-class version IS universal sexism.

That said, I DO think broad issues affect all women, which is why the quote Belledame quoted struck me as wrong, because reproductive freedom and domestic violence affect women of all colours, classes etc. They do. And accusations of racism aren’t helpful or constructive.

And the police may beat non-white men they think are criminals, but they ignore accusations completely if the man is white and ‘respectable’. Then women die. As indeed they do if an abused woman doesn’t call the police at all. Neither is right.

Just, well, women should work together

I am amazed that anyone would prefer blatant, overt sexism to what Latoya describes as subtle racism. It is interesting that racist is perceived as a big insult…I have to say I’d take the well-meaning person, who may get it wrong, but is at least willing to try. That is, I don’t know what to *do* with blatantly sexist men who literally say women’s place is in the kitchen, butbut if a man appears to basically accept that women are equal, even if they have probematic ideas, at leasy you can debate with them…

The Opoponax, hmm, but I read the quote as saying that talking about abortion access at all without mentioning the other side is racist. First, as I said, I don’t know anyone who supports abortion who would coerce woman into abortion/ sterilisation…that just seems a given. I seriously don’t think women are discouraged from reproducing when they want to, but then, I’m from the UK and welfare benefits are not dependent on not having (more) children, and non-white women have not been sterilised. There may be classist ideas about who is fit to reproduce, sure, but these affect poor white women (again, UK perspective). I have seen unaffordable healthcare mentioned a lot, actually, as a barrier to obtaining contraception. I agree ignoring those issues is problematic, but bashing feminism struck me as an unfair generalisation, because I am saying it doesn’t universally ignore them.

‘just that we don’t think much about what that means or work very hard for aspects of those issues that don’t immediately apply to us ‘ – but what specific aspects do you mean? As I see it, women need access to free/ cheap healthcare, including non-judgemental advice and unbiased information.

I don’t think feminists say anything different.

I seriously have not met a feminist who would be more encouraging of a non-white woman than a white woman in the same circumstances having a termination, which is what I meant about it being her choice either way.

I understand the stereotypes wrt ‘omg immigrants reproducing’, but that said, I am not sure it impacts on non-white women’s choices. OK, unpleasant attitudes are one thing, but you seriously think non-white women are thinking ‘oh noes, I want a kid but some people might say nasty things to me?’ It’s not as if women can be forcibly sterilised or made to have abortions (at least, in the ‘western’ world).

And Belledame, uh, I was not advocating fawning all over white middle-class people, any more than the opposite. How about actually treating people’s arguments online on their merits? It is a beef I have generally with assuming stuff from one or two comments on the Internet.

It is just a trend I’ve noticed on feminist sites (not confined to this one) that might be called identity politics – I have seen the exact same comment ignored or attacked coming from a woman who didn’t specify her creds, but prefixed with ‘as a WOC/ disabled woman/ whatever’ suddenly it was OMG. the. best. comment. ever. 111! And the point is not that I think the reverse should happen, but anyone’s ideas should be up for criticism. Criticising the idea is not criticising the person. Note: I said everyone. I am not saying white people have better ideas, before someone twists what I said to mean that, but that actually it’s a kind of patronising thing that happens from mainly white commenters to a token minority.

And we have a classic case here – Kai claiming that all white people are racist.

FYI, Kai, I have never assumed a non-white person is less knowledgeable than a white person, and I think making slit-eye imitations etc. is racist. I also thought the Obama chimp cartoon was racist. So try not making unfounded assumptions that you know what is in someone’s mind.

And yes, I know, it is not about me, and I usually don’t make it so, but your post was clearly in direct response to mine. So this time it is.

I have just come from trying to explain to a white person why whining about immigration, specifically immigrants taking all the jobs, is racist.

The irony.

i might be agreeing with oponanax in any case, rereading it, but, yeah, I am not the droid you are seeking, or something.

I don’t think this is belledame’s point, at all. I think what she’s saying is that, in whatever feminist issue white women find ourselves concentrating on, we need to be aware of and work on the whole issue, not just the way that issue affects us and women who are exactly like us (whether we’re talking race, class, sexual orientation, gender conformingness, whatever). To me it’s not so much that white (straight/middle-class/whatever) feminists don’t support the full spectrum of issues, but just that we don’t think much about what that means or work very hard for aspects of those issues that don’t immediately apply to us. A tacit, “oh, yeah, OK, so apparently those “other” women have different needs vis a vis feminism… Meh, whatever, THOSE AMERICAN APPAREL ADS ARE SO OFFENSIVE!!1!11!!!” isn’t enough.

It’s telling how commenters are attacked or ignored if assumed to be white and middle class, and fawned all over if they say they are not.

LOL

Limbaughesque POC-resenting white-persecution-syndrome busts out into Feministe airspace.

Yeah so I’m gonna have to go ahead and mostly agree with Resist Racism, at least in certain cases, on some of the ways that racism harms white folks.