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	<title>Comments on: Housewives, Babymakers, and Sex Partners</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
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		<title>By: C L O S E R &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Closing the week 16</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/#comment-237757</link>
		<dc:creator>C L O S E R &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Closing the week 16</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 12:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12859#comment-237757</guid>
		<description>[...] Feministe » Housewives, Babymakers, and Sex Partners because sponsorhip is so difficult to find, essentially, as Sivali Shah says in the trailer, these women are “being brought in[to the United States] only in the most base functions as women: housewives, babymakers, and sex partners.” [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Feministe » Housewives, Babymakers, and Sex Partners because sponsorhip is so difficult to find, essentially, as Sivali Shah says in the trailer, these women are “being brought in[to the United States] only in the most base functions as women: housewives, babymakers, and sex partners.” [...]</p>
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		<title>By: GME275</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/#comment-237579</link>
		<dc:creator>GME275</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 18 Apr 2009 04:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12859#comment-237579</guid>
		<description>I have difficulty feeling bad for a supposedly educated and accomplished person who &quot;thought nothing&quot; of making such a radical life change as immigrating without doing all their research up front and knowing what they were getting into. It&#039;s not as though the terms of the visa were a secret which these accomplished professionals had no way of learning about in advance!

In fact in five minutes of Googling I was able not only to learn about the visa&#039;s provisions, but that some of the claims made about it in the video were exaggerated or false. For example, true that you can&#039;t get an SSN, but you can get a taxpayer ID and there&#039;s nothing to keep you from opening a bank account with it. You can also attend school. The restriction on self-employment is ridiculous, because entrepreneurs only add value to the economy, not taking anything from anybody. But the work restrictions exist precisely because policy makers know that overwhelmingly, immigrant women &lt;em&gt;will&lt;/em&gt; take the opportunity to work if they can (this stuff about &quot;their culture&quot; is nonsense, incidentally - I&#039;ve known many South Asian women all my life and all of them work); and rightly or wrongly, they wrote the law so as not to create a daisy-chain of foreign workers stemming from a single visa. While the lack of provision for women who find themselves in an abusive relationship far from home is alarming, there&#039;s an argument to be made (and probably &lt;em&gt;was&lt;/em&gt; made during the drafting of policy) that if you&#039;re only here because you want to live with the person who&#039;s coming here to work, and your relationship with them ends, then you haven&#039;t gotten a reason to be here anymore. That doesn&#039;t do justice to the messy situations people often find themselves in, and much depends on the application, but in and of itself it&#039;s not an atrocity. 

And certainly no woman in the United States, regardless of documented status or lack thereof, needs her husband&#039;s legal permission to go to a doctor. That&#039;s just a lie. Although some of the unforeseen consequences of the law are ugly, I take strong exception to the idea that the U.S. government somehow deliberately designed the law to make things as bad as possible for foreign women, or that our lawmakers are somehow responsible for all the crazy stuff that can happen when people try - as we all, in some sense, must - fit our lives into a one-size-fits-all legal regime. According to the old saying &quot;the law is an ass,&quot; and this seems to be an example of that. But there&#039;s a big difference between the law being an ass and the law being a deliberate, nefarious scheme to oppress.

As a mother, I have no words for hearing &quot;babymaker&quot; described as a &quot;base function.&quot; Not &quot;basic,&quot; mind you - &quot;base.&quot; The title of this post implicitly puts those words in the mouths of - well, who exactly isn&#039;t clear... policymakers? South Asian men? That turned out to be dishonest too.

So the moral of the story is, &quot;if your career is essential to your personal identity and self-worth, don&#039;t quit your job to immigrate on a non-working visa.&quot; Simple, really.

I actually agree that &quot;dependent spouse&quot; is an outdated, perhaps even offensive category. I understand that to many people a law like this looks like it is dictating people&#039;s personal arrangements in a 1950s direction. I would absolutely agree if it were anything other than an immigration issue. No country is obligated to take anyone. (I am actually in the process of temporarily immigrating out of the U.S., so I am particularly mindful of that.) The law here &lt;em&gt;isn&#039;t&lt;/em&gt; &quot;families can come, but only those in which the wife doesn&#039;t work&quot;; there&#039;s no sex discrimination in working visas, and one can only imagine that if the women are really so highly qualified, they can apply for one on their own. In fact, I know many immigrant women who have, my own mother included. What the law says is, &quot;if you get a working visa, you&#039;re welcome to bring your non-working spouse.&quot; I disagree with this as a matter of policy - if you&#039;re good enough to be here at all, you&#039;re good enough to participate in our economy - but there&#039;s a big difference between disagreeing with a policy and believing that said policy is a nefarious misogynist plot. And the political reality around immigration is that the only way you could convert H4s to working privileges, or start giving out H1Bs on a couples basis, would be to reduce the total number of H1Bs. 

Note, also, that these are not women who *need* to work. The unemployed woman had better wardrobe and beauty supplies than I do. If they weren&#039;t doing better with the husband just working here than with both of them working back home, they obviously never would have come in the first place (again, spare the inaccurate and racist comments about &quot;their culture&quot;). Of course it is unjust to deny people the ability to support themselves as needed - as in the case of abused women, which even the video was forced to admit was already corrected several years ago by the VAWA - but I don&#039;t think we&#039;re under any obligation to grant working opportunities on grounds of personal fulfillment. It may even be that what they thought was a &quot;powerful&quot; career back home was really something they floated into on class privilege, and they don&#039;t actually have many portable skills. Even among Americans, one often sees such self-deception about one&#039;s economic worth, particularly among those in generic white-collar business work as opposed to credentialed professionals. Most of the well-groomed cubicle dwellers in your local office park probably wouldn&#039;t do too well in a foreign country, either. 

Also, what&#039;s with the Soka Gakkai angle? Has nobody else picked up on this? It seems more like a recruiting tool directed to similarly situated women - I thought the ominous, unsympathetic depiction of Hindu ritual was pretty yucky - than a serious contribution to political discourse. Are they trying to increase their vulnerability to their religious message by making the situation seem worse than it actually is, e.g. the &quot;going to the doctor&quot; thing? Creepy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I have difficulty feeling bad for a supposedly educated and accomplished person who &#8220;thought nothing&#8221; of making such a radical life change as immigrating without doing all their research up front and knowing what they were getting into. It&#8217;s not as though the terms of the visa were a secret which these accomplished professionals had no way of learning about in advance!</p>
<p>In fact in five minutes of Googling I was able not only to learn about the visa&#8217;s provisions, but that some of the claims made about it in the video were exaggerated or false. For example, true that you can&#8217;t get an SSN, but you can get a taxpayer ID and there&#8217;s nothing to keep you from opening a bank account with it. You can also attend school. The restriction on self-employment is ridiculous, because entrepreneurs only add value to the economy, not taking anything from anybody. But the work restrictions exist precisely because policy makers know that overwhelmingly, immigrant women <em>will</em> take the opportunity to work if they can (this stuff about &#8220;their culture&#8221; is nonsense, incidentally &#8211; I&#8217;ve known many South Asian women all my life and all of them work); and rightly or wrongly, they wrote the law so as not to create a daisy-chain of foreign workers stemming from a single visa. While the lack of provision for women who find themselves in an abusive relationship far from home is alarming, there&#8217;s an argument to be made (and probably <em>was</em> made during the drafting of policy) that if you&#8217;re only here because you want to live with the person who&#8217;s coming here to work, and your relationship with them ends, then you haven&#8217;t gotten a reason to be here anymore. That doesn&#8217;t do justice to the messy situations people often find themselves in, and much depends on the application, but in and of itself it&#8217;s not an atrocity. </p>
<p>And certainly no woman in the United States, regardless of documented status or lack thereof, needs her husband&#8217;s legal permission to go to a doctor. That&#8217;s just a lie. Although some of the unforeseen consequences of the law are ugly, I take strong exception to the idea that the U.S. government somehow deliberately designed the law to make things as bad as possible for foreign women, or that our lawmakers are somehow responsible for all the crazy stuff that can happen when people try &#8211; as we all, in some sense, must &#8211; fit our lives into a one-size-fits-all legal regime. According to the old saying &#8220;the law is an ass,&#8221; and this seems to be an example of that. But there&#8217;s a big difference between the law being an ass and the law being a deliberate, nefarious scheme to oppress.</p>
<p>As a mother, I have no words for hearing &#8220;babymaker&#8221; described as a &#8220;base function.&#8221; Not &#8220;basic,&#8221; mind you &#8211; &#8220;base.&#8221; The title of this post implicitly puts those words in the mouths of &#8211; well, who exactly isn&#8217;t clear&#8230; policymakers? South Asian men? That turned out to be dishonest too.</p>
<p>So the moral of the story is, &#8220;if your career is essential to your personal identity and self-worth, don&#8217;t quit your job to immigrate on a non-working visa.&#8221; Simple, really.</p>
<p>I actually agree that &#8220;dependent spouse&#8221; is an outdated, perhaps even offensive category. I understand that to many people a law like this looks like it is dictating people&#8217;s personal arrangements in a 1950s direction. I would absolutely agree if it were anything other than an immigration issue. No country is obligated to take anyone. (I am actually in the process of temporarily immigrating out of the U.S., so I am particularly mindful of that.) The law here <em>isn&#8217;t</em> &#8220;families can come, but only those in which the wife doesn&#8217;t work&#8221;; there&#8217;s no sex discrimination in working visas, and one can only imagine that if the women are really so highly qualified, they can apply for one on their own. In fact, I know many immigrant women who have, my own mother included. What the law says is, &#8220;if you get a working visa, you&#8217;re welcome to bring your non-working spouse.&#8221; I disagree with this as a matter of policy &#8211; if you&#8217;re good enough to be here at all, you&#8217;re good enough to participate in our economy &#8211; but there&#8217;s a big difference between disagreeing with a policy and believing that said policy is a nefarious misogynist plot. And the political reality around immigration is that the only way you could convert H4s to working privileges, or start giving out H1Bs on a couples basis, would be to reduce the total number of H1Bs. </p>
<p>Note, also, that these are not women who *need* to work. The unemployed woman had better wardrobe and beauty supplies than I do. If they weren&#8217;t doing better with the husband just working here than with both of them working back home, they obviously never would have come in the first place (again, spare the inaccurate and racist comments about &#8220;their culture&#8221;). Of course it is unjust to deny people the ability to support themselves as needed &#8211; as in the case of abused women, which even the video was forced to admit was already corrected several years ago by the VAWA &#8211; but I don&#8217;t think we&#8217;re under any obligation to grant working opportunities on grounds of personal fulfillment. It may even be that what they thought was a &#8220;powerful&#8221; career back home was really something they floated into on class privilege, and they don&#8217;t actually have many portable skills. Even among Americans, one often sees such self-deception about one&#8217;s economic worth, particularly among those in generic white-collar business work as opposed to credentialed professionals. Most of the well-groomed cubicle dwellers in your local office park probably wouldn&#8217;t do too well in a foreign country, either. </p>
<p>Also, what&#8217;s with the Soka Gakkai angle? Has nobody else picked up on this? It seems more like a recruiting tool directed to similarly situated women &#8211; I thought the ominous, unsympathetic depiction of Hindu ritual was pretty yucky &#8211; than a serious contribution to political discourse. Are they trying to increase their vulnerability to their religious message by making the situation seem worse than it actually is, e.g. the &#8220;going to the doctor&#8221; thing? Creepy.</p>
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		<title>By: Vic</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/#comment-237543</link>
		<dc:creator>Vic</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 23:12:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12859#comment-237543</guid>
		<description>I am in the same position except my husband is on an &quot;O&quot; visa which means he has extraordinary skills and (by implication) I have none! I&#039;m a nurse and therefore have highly sought after skills. It&#039;s a shame that there is a blanket ban on working for people in our position and that we can&#039;t be considered on a case by case basis - or even that, considering some visas are non-immigrant, we can&#039;t work for the short time we&#039;re here and contribute something to the economy!
I&#039;m glad someone is getting the word out there that this is happening - sometimes I think that these sorts of things are just antiquated laws that have never been looked at or updated because nobody has ever drawn attention to them.
Can someone tell me where I can get hold of the film to view it?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am in the same position except my husband is on an &#8220;O&#8221; visa which means he has extraordinary skills and (by implication) I have none! I&#8217;m a nurse and therefore have highly sought after skills. It&#8217;s a shame that there is a blanket ban on working for people in our position and that we can&#8217;t be considered on a case by case basis &#8211; or even that, considering some visas are non-immigrant, we can&#8217;t work for the short time we&#8217;re here and contribute something to the economy!<br />
I&#8217;m glad someone is getting the word out there that this is happening &#8211; sometimes I think that these sorts of things are just antiquated laws that have never been looked at or updated because nobody has ever drawn attention to them.<br />
Can someone tell me where I can get hold of the film to view it?</p>
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		<title>By: Friday Links &#8212; April 17, 2009 &#171; Muslimah Media Watch</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/#comment-237431</link>
		<dc:creator>Friday Links &#8212; April 17, 2009 &#171; Muslimah Media Watch</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 08:03:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12859#comment-237431</guid>
		<description>[...] Feministe has a great post about women who come to the West on spousal/dependant visas. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Feministe has a great post about women who come to the West on spousal/dependant visas. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: B</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/#comment-237419</link>
		<dc:creator>B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 05:11:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12859#comment-237419</guid>
		<description>SanFranDesi,
I understand your annoyance, though I am pretty sure they are being honest about the almost impossibility of sponsoring you. I am from the US and also have a liberal arts degree. I arranged a job as a research assistant for a professor in a social sciences field in Australia (where my partner is a citizen and was in school), only to find they could not sponsor me because my education and training couldn&#039;t be ticked off a box of very specific skill sets. Moreover, even though the professor had his own consulting firm as well and would have been happy to do any and all paper work, he would have had to prove that he had advertised my job and no one else in Australia was capable of doing the work on top of the skill set list, etc. It does seem counter productive for countries to make migration for educated people so difficult. To have smart educated women sitting here twiddling their thumbs is not only a waste for their own lives, but to America as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SanFranDesi,<br />
I understand your annoyance, though I am pretty sure they are being honest about the almost impossibility of sponsoring you. I am from the US and also have a liberal arts degree. I arranged a job as a research assistant for a professor in a social sciences field in Australia (where my partner is a citizen and was in school), only to find they could not sponsor me because my education and training couldn&#8217;t be ticked off a box of very specific skill sets. Moreover, even though the professor had his own consulting firm as well and would have been happy to do any and all paper work, he would have had to prove that he had advertised my job and no one else in Australia was capable of doing the work on top of the skill set list, etc. It does seem counter productive for countries to make migration for educated people so difficult. To have smart educated women sitting here twiddling their thumbs is not only a waste for their own lives, but to America as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Femmostroppo Reader - April 17, 2009 &#8212; Hoyden About Town</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/#comment-237378</link>
		<dc:creator>Femmostroppo Reader - April 17, 2009 &#8212; Hoyden About Town</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 23:03:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12859#comment-237378</guid>
		<description>[...] Housewives, Babymakers, and Sex Partners [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Housewives, Babymakers, and Sex Partners [...]</p>
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		<title>By: SanFranDesi</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/#comment-237368</link>
		<dc:creator>SanFranDesi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:03:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12859#comment-237368</guid>
		<description>and I will try to look into this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>and I will try to look into this.</p>
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		<title>By: SanFranDesi</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/#comment-237367</link>
		<dc:creator>SanFranDesi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 22:00:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12859#comment-237367</guid>
		<description>Harlemjd--It is in film production and literature. Thank you for the information.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harlemjd&#8211;It is in film production and literature. Thank you for the information.</p>
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		<title>By: Farhat</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/#comment-237240</link>
		<dc:creator>Farhat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 06:19:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12859#comment-237240</guid>
		<description>I could add to the previous post that my PhD is from US and I lived there for over 9 years before getting this security check. I contributed a couple of tens of thousands of dollars to your social security net that I will never be seeing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I could add to the previous post that my PhD is from US and I lived there for over 9 years before getting this security check. I contributed a couple of tens of thousands of dollars to your social security net that I will never be seeing.</p>
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		<title>By: Farhat</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/housewives-babymakers-and-sex-partners/#comment-237239</link>
		<dc:creator>Farhat</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Apr 2009 06:16:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12859#comment-237239</guid>
		<description>SanFranDesi: H1Bis ostensibly meant for specialized jobs only. That corporations have bastardized it to the point anyone with a 2-week HTML course could get a H1-B visa is besides the point. That said, having a specialized degree doesn&#039;t necessarily work in your favor. I have a PhD and applied for a H1-B last Oct. Now as I have specialized skills, I am considered a security risk and have to go through an additional security check (visa Mantis) that can literally take forever (I am still waiting for it to finish though it wouldn&#039;t matter since I closed my position in the US).  After waiting for 3 months, I looked around and found a position in India which is actually better (significantly work wise and slightly monetarily) than the one I had in US. Moreover, my wife does not need to wonder about whether or not she can find a sponsor in the US for an H1-B. We decided that if we do work outside India we will only choose countries where both of us can work and would not have these issues to deal with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>SanFranDesi: H1Bis ostensibly meant for specialized jobs only. That corporations have bastardized it to the point anyone with a 2-week HTML course could get a H1-B visa is besides the point. That said, having a specialized degree doesn&#8217;t necessarily work in your favor. I have a PhD and applied for a H1-B last Oct. Now as I have specialized skills, I am considered a security risk and have to go through an additional security check (visa Mantis) that can literally take forever (I am still waiting for it to finish though it wouldn&#8217;t matter since I closed my position in the US).  After waiting for 3 months, I looked around and found a position in India which is actually better (significantly work wise and slightly monetarily) than the one I had in US. Moreover, my wife does not need to wonder about whether or not she can find a sponsor in the US for an H1-B. We decided that if we do work outside India we will only choose countries where both of us can work and would not have these issues to deal with.</p>
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