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	<title>Comments on: On Cis Supremacy, Feminism and Feministe</title>
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	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:14:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: Link roundup</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/#comment-277266</link>
		<dc:creator>Link roundup</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Sep 2009 21:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12761#comment-277266</guid>
		<description>[...] and the question of whose voices are given most attention. You kind of have to understand the whole preceding argument to get full value from it, though [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and the question of whose voices are given most attention. You kind of have to understand the whole preceding argument to get full value from it, though [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Blog Review: The Curvature &#171; Pathological Narcissist</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/#comment-269767</link>
		<dc:creator>Blog Review: The Curvature &#171; Pathological Narcissist</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 22 Aug 2009 02:46:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12761#comment-269767</guid>
		<description>[...] bloggers were called out on work that marginalized transgendered people. In my opinion, Cara responded well. She addressed the problem without defensiveness, and I believe that her actions on the follow [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] bloggers were called out on work that marginalized transgendered people. In my opinion, Cara responded well. She addressed the problem without defensiveness, and I believe that her actions on the follow [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Jason</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/#comment-238274</link>
		<dc:creator>Jason</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Apr 2009 02:52:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12761#comment-238274</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t tend to read the comments, and until recently, had never commented myself. As a result, I&#039;m actually reading this with no prior knowledge as to what happened.

 I&#039;m trans, FtM. I tend to find something interesting on femanist blogs; I tend to largely be accepted. I&#039;m now questioning whether I&#039;m primarily seen as female with a male name, given that I have female experiences- although I don&#039;t think so. I&#039;m not certain any more though.
 
That seems to be the qualifying thing- have you experienced some of the harrowing ordeals of being a woman, and struggling with some of the things femanism deals with. And, well, I have.

 I call myself a male femanist- after all, that&#039;s what I am. But does my experience as a woman include me more than other male femanists? Worse, would it include me more than transgendered female femanists?

I&#039;m not sure. But it&#039;s an interesting question; and this whole thing is an interesting issue. I do feel trans issues are overlooked too often, but- &lt;b&gt;they&#039;re overlooked a lot less than they used to be.&lt;/b&gt;

 I call this progress. Even if it&#039;s not as fast as we&#039;d like, we ARE making it. We just have to make sure we don&#039;t slip backwards any more.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t tend to read the comments, and until recently, had never commented myself. As a result, I&#8217;m actually reading this with no prior knowledge as to what happened.</p>
<p> I&#8217;m trans, FtM. I tend to find something interesting on femanist blogs; I tend to largely be accepted. I&#8217;m now questioning whether I&#8217;m primarily seen as female with a male name, given that I have female experiences- although I don&#8217;t think so. I&#8217;m not certain any more though.</p>
<p>That seems to be the qualifying thing- have you experienced some of the harrowing ordeals of being a woman, and struggling with some of the things femanism deals with. And, well, I have.</p>
<p> I call myself a male femanist- after all, that&#8217;s what I am. But does my experience as a woman include me more than other male femanists? Worse, would it include me more than transgendered female femanists?</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure. But it&#8217;s an interesting question; and this whole thing is an interesting issue. I do feel trans issues are overlooked too often, but- <b>they&#8217;re overlooked a lot less than they used to be.</b></p>
<p> I call this progress. Even if it&#8217;s not as fast as we&#8217;d like, we ARE making it. We just have to make sure we don&#8217;t slip backwards any more.</p>
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		<title>By: Remembering the T in LGBT &#171; Women In Pants</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/#comment-238228</link>
		<dc:creator>Remembering the T in LGBT &#171; Women In Pants</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Apr 2009 23:00:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12761#comment-238228</guid>
		<description>[...] Feministe&#8217;s analysis of the boycott, what led to it, and a call for more awareness by cisgender women can be found here. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Feministe&#8217;s analysis of the boycott, what led to it, and a call for more awareness by cisgender women can be found here. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Grace Annam</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/#comment-237861</link>
		<dc:creator>Grace Annam</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Apr 2009 23:59:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12761#comment-237861</guid>
		<description>Zoe Brain writes:

&lt;blockquote&gt;You know what breaks my heart?

It’s the people who apologise in advance for not knowing, the people who are showing respect. The people who apologise aren’t the problem, and I really hope they realise that there’s no necessity for them to tread on eggshells.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There is, actually.

Newly self-aware trans people, who are often just starting to figure this out, are often pretty vulnerable, emotionally.  And if they just start spouting off, without understanding the ground rules in spaces like this, they&#039;re likely to say something ignorant, and someone like GallingGalla or voz will reply in a harsh manner.  Yes, GallingGalla and voz and people like them have every right to reply, and every right to be tired of having to make certain points over and over, and are weary of getting stepped on by people unconscious of cis privilege and so on.  But for the person who didn&#039;t get it quite right, it such a reply can be quite a smack in the face.

And so, the wise newbies shut up and read and listen and do their own research and don&#039;t ask ignorant questions like, &quot;What does &#039;cis&#039; mean?&quot; because if they don&#039;t know how to use a search engine they probably shouldn&#039;t be posting at the varsity level, which is what this is.

And when they do post, it&#039;s with some trepidation.  Like me, right now.  I figured out my trans identity years ago, and I&#039;m on pretty good footing with myself, and I like to think I&#039;m articulate.  But I&#039;ve also lived a long time with various privileges, and I&#039;m just learning about such things as &quot;othering&quot; and &quot;derailing&quot;, and the basic conventions of polite, thoughtful engagement in spaces like this.  I&#039;m actually pretty worried, as I type this, that I&#039;ve broken a rule and I&#039;m going to get my rear end handed to me, and I&#039;m going to go think about it, and conclude, &quot;Damn, she&#039;s right, I screwed up.&quot;

So, I don&#039;t say much, and I try to be very careful when I post in spaces like these.  It&#039;s not so much you particularly Zoe, but if I&#039;m going to walk around you in this space, I&#039;m also walking around others who shoot from the hip.  So it behooves me to try hard not to be a deserving target, not only for my own emotional resources, but also so that I don&#039;t put others to the trouble of teaching me something I should have figured out on my own.

So, here&#039;s hoping this one passes muster.  I apologize in advance if I&#039;ve screwed up somewhere.

Grace

P.S.  I love violet&#039;s comment @154.  &quot;Unusually inquisitive clown&quot;.  Eek and yech, all in one hilarious image.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zoe Brain writes:</p>
<blockquote><p>You know what breaks my heart?</p>
<p>It’s the people who apologise in advance for not knowing, the people who are showing respect. The people who apologise aren’t the problem, and I really hope they realise that there’s no necessity for them to tread on eggshells.</p></blockquote>
<p>There is, actually.</p>
<p>Newly self-aware trans people, who are often just starting to figure this out, are often pretty vulnerable, emotionally.  And if they just start spouting off, without understanding the ground rules in spaces like this, they&#8217;re likely to say something ignorant, and someone like GallingGalla or voz will reply in a harsh manner.  Yes, GallingGalla and voz and people like them have every right to reply, and every right to be tired of having to make certain points over and over, and are weary of getting stepped on by people unconscious of cis privilege and so on.  But for the person who didn&#8217;t get it quite right, it such a reply can be quite a smack in the face.</p>
<p>And so, the wise newbies shut up and read and listen and do their own research and don&#8217;t ask ignorant questions like, &#8220;What does &#8216;cis&#8217; mean?&#8221; because if they don&#8217;t know how to use a search engine they probably shouldn&#8217;t be posting at the varsity level, which is what this is.</p>
<p>And when they do post, it&#8217;s with some trepidation.  Like me, right now.  I figured out my trans identity years ago, and I&#8217;m on pretty good footing with myself, and I like to think I&#8217;m articulate.  But I&#8217;ve also lived a long time with various privileges, and I&#8217;m just learning about such things as &#8220;othering&#8221; and &#8220;derailing&#8221;, and the basic conventions of polite, thoughtful engagement in spaces like this.  I&#8217;m actually pretty worried, as I type this, that I&#8217;ve broken a rule and I&#8217;m going to get my rear end handed to me, and I&#8217;m going to go think about it, and conclude, &#8220;Damn, she&#8217;s right, I screwed up.&#8221;</p>
<p>So, I don&#8217;t say much, and I try to be very careful when I post in spaces like these.  It&#8217;s not so much you particularly Zoe, but if I&#8217;m going to walk around you in this space, I&#8217;m also walking around others who shoot from the hip.  So it behooves me to try hard not to be a deserving target, not only for my own emotional resources, but also so that I don&#8217;t put others to the trouble of teaching me something I should have figured out on my own.</p>
<p>So, here&#8217;s hoping this one passes muster.  I apologize in advance if I&#8217;ve screwed up somewhere.</p>
<p>Grace</p>
<p>P.S.  I love violet&#8217;s comment @154.  &#8220;Unusually inquisitive clown&#8221;.  Eek and yech, all in one hilarious image.</p>
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		<title>By: violet</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/#comment-237530</link>
		<dc:creator>violet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:21:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12761#comment-237530</guid>
		<description>Let&#039;s pretend I said what little light said, only maybe with dancing or juggling or possibly ghost metaphors, and an unusually inquisitive clown. That sounds about right.

Zoe: Yes. That, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Let&#8217;s pretend I said what little light said, only maybe with dancing or juggling or possibly ghost metaphors, and an unusually inquisitive clown. That sounds about right.</p>
<p>Zoe: Yes. That, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Cara</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/#comment-237497</link>
		<dc:creator>Cara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 17:49:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12761#comment-237497</guid>
		<description>We&#039;re still defending this?  Seriously?  I don&#039;t know what to add to the responses above, but seriously.  Yes, coming in and asking people to spoon-feed you in a space that was set aside specifically to not be that place is derailing.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We&#8217;re still defending this?  Seriously?  I don&#8217;t know what to add to the responses above, but seriously.  Yes, coming in and asking people to spoon-feed you in a space that was set aside specifically to not be that place is derailing.</p>
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		<title>By: Holly</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/#comment-237474</link>
		<dc:creator>Holly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:53:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12761#comment-237474</guid>
		<description>The &quot;cis&quot; thing happens on practically every post. Maybe that points out some kind of lack of easy-access-and-meaning in the terminology, but the more important part is that it happens over and over again, it&#039;s a raw nerve, and it&#039;s understandable that we (trans folks, and people trying really hard to get it right) are going to get a little frustrated about it. That doesn&#039;t mean frustration is the best answer or the right answer or the ultimate #1 best solution for dealing with tangential-at-best questions that come up over and over again. It means sometimes shit happens, especially out at the margins, and everyone&#039;s gotta deal somehow.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The &#8220;cis&#8221; thing happens on practically every post. Maybe that points out some kind of lack of easy-access-and-meaning in the terminology, but the more important part is that it happens over and over again, it&#8217;s a raw nerve, and it&#8217;s understandable that we (trans folks, and people trying really hard to get it right) are going to get a little frustrated about it. That doesn&#8217;t mean frustration is the best answer or the right answer or the ultimate #1 best solution for dealing with tangential-at-best questions that come up over and over again. It means sometimes shit happens, especially out at the margins, and everyone&#8217;s gotta deal somehow.</p>
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		<title>By: Zoe Brain</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/#comment-237465</link>
		<dc:creator>Zoe Brain</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:19:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12761#comment-237465</guid>
		<description>You know what breaks my heart?

It&#039;s the people who apologise in advance for not knowing, the people who are showing respect. The people who apologise aren&#039;t the problem, and I really hope they realise that there&#039;s no necessity for them to tread on eggshells.

If you know intellectually that you have cisgendered privilege, well, it may take some time to really understand the scope of it, but as far as I&#039;m concerned, problem solved, and you&#039;ll get there in the end.

I don&#039;t want anyone to tiptoe around me for fear of offending me. I&#039;ve been allocated the role of victim, but I&#039;ve refused to accept victimhood. So while I&#039;ll point out the persecution, and never let anyone forget the constant, unremitting transphobic violence in thought, word and deed, it&#039;s only really the deeds I worry about. God knows there are enough of them!

As I wrote in a screed full of implacable accusation on BitchPhD, I won&#039;t give crap like hers a pass. But mis-steps that are well-meant, not even the result of negligence, I guess I just don&#039;t have time to sweat the small stuff. It&#039;s not that I don&#039;t care, or disrespect others opinions, more like I&#039;m up to my ears in true hatred and vitriol from genuine bigots, not merely the unknowingly privileged. I don&#039;t have the time for you that you deserve, and have a right to expect.

For those who feel guilty about past mis-steps, I ask you to be a little easy on yourself. Please. You&#039;re doing OK, really, and you will do better in future. All I can do is thank you, and ask you not to try too hard. Your earnest confessions of imperfection remind me too much of my own myriad privileges and ignorance. 

It&#039;s those who don&#039;t feel any guilt, who don&#039;t see that there&#039;s a problem, that I must devote my limited energies to educating. Those that unthinkingly hijack threads for example. Please forgive me for that. Sometimes it seems an awfully big mountain, and I have an awfully small teaspoon. And I have a life outside activism, I&#039;m not really the activist type.  I had to be pressganged into it.

Thanks, Cara. You&#039;re doing your best, as am I, and I think that&#039;s all that anyone can reasonably expect, regardless of suboptimal outcomes sometimes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You know what breaks my heart?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s the people who apologise in advance for not knowing, the people who are showing respect. The people who apologise aren&#8217;t the problem, and I really hope they realise that there&#8217;s no necessity for them to tread on eggshells.</p>
<p>If you know intellectually that you have cisgendered privilege, well, it may take some time to really understand the scope of it, but as far as I&#8217;m concerned, problem solved, and you&#8217;ll get there in the end.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t want anyone to tiptoe around me for fear of offending me. I&#8217;ve been allocated the role of victim, but I&#8217;ve refused to accept victimhood. So while I&#8217;ll point out the persecution, and never let anyone forget the constant, unremitting transphobic violence in thought, word and deed, it&#8217;s only really the deeds I worry about. God knows there are enough of them!</p>
<p>As I wrote in a screed full of implacable accusation on BitchPhD, I won&#8217;t give crap like hers a pass. But mis-steps that are well-meant, not even the result of negligence, I guess I just don&#8217;t have time to sweat the small stuff. It&#8217;s not that I don&#8217;t care, or disrespect others opinions, more like I&#8217;m up to my ears in true hatred and vitriol from genuine bigots, not merely the unknowingly privileged. I don&#8217;t have the time for you that you deserve, and have a right to expect.</p>
<p>For those who feel guilty about past mis-steps, I ask you to be a little easy on yourself. Please. You&#8217;re doing OK, really, and you will do better in future. All I can do is thank you, and ask you not to try too hard. Your earnest confessions of imperfection remind me too much of my own myriad privileges and ignorance. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s those who don&#8217;t feel any guilt, who don&#8217;t see that there&#8217;s a problem, that I must devote my limited energies to educating. Those that unthinkingly hijack threads for example. Please forgive me for that. Sometimes it seems an awfully big mountain, and I have an awfully small teaspoon. And I have a life outside activism, I&#8217;m not really the activist type.  I had to be pressganged into it.</p>
<p>Thanks, Cara. You&#8217;re doing your best, as am I, and I think that&#8217;s all that anyone can reasonably expect, regardless of suboptimal outcomes sometimes.</p>
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		<title>By: CBrachyrhynchos</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/04/14/on-cis-supremacy-feminism-and-feministe/#comment-237463</link>
		<dc:creator>CBrachyrhynchos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Apr 2009 15:13:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=12761#comment-237463</guid>
		<description>To use an analogy, it&#039;s rather like going into a feminist discussion about how threads are derailed to focus on men, and asking &quot;well, what is feminism? what is patriarchy? what is rape?&quot; Or going into a gay-, lesbian-, or bisexual-centered discussion and asking &quot;what is heterosexism? what is homophobia?&quot;

I&#039;ll admit and apologize that I&#039;ve contributed to some of those derails. But when the author makes that request up-front as part of the OP, I really think that should be respected.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To use an analogy, it&#8217;s rather like going into a feminist discussion about how threads are derailed to focus on men, and asking &#8220;well, what is feminism? what is patriarchy? what is rape?&#8221; Or going into a gay-, lesbian-, or bisexual-centered discussion and asking &#8220;what is heterosexism? what is homophobia?&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll admit and apologize that I&#8217;ve contributed to some of those derails. But when the author makes that request up-front as part of the OP, I really think that should be respected.</p>
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