MAJOR spoilers below!
So, the LOST Season 5 finale. I think it pretty much goes down as “most fucked up and shocking season finale yet,” which isn’t exactly a small feat. I hardly even know when to begin with this one, but let’s see.
SORTA RECAP: 70s Time Line
I find it kind of hard to divorce some analysis from the recap for this one, so things are going to be a bit mixed in. I mean, I can’t even decide which of the two time lines we’re following (as I’ve divided them) is the most shocking.
Some of the smaller stuff out of the way: Rose, Bernard and Vincent (time-traveling dog!) are all okay, living in a cabin out in the woods (was it Jacob’s cabin?), and seemingly never to return. We saw perhaps the most badass gun fight on LOST yet, when the crew came rolling in to the Swan site in the Dharma van with guns blazing. Chang lost his hand, as we all knew he would. That piece of shit Phil got stabbed through the chest with a flying metal spike — yay! Radzinsky, of course, lived because he has to kill himself in the hatch some many years later (seemingly not because he can’t handle the monotony and pressure of pushing the button, but because this is all his fault) — boo! Juliet broke up with Sawyer because she believes that he’s really in love with Kate. Sawyer and Jack beat the shit out of each other, with Sawyer thankfully coming out on top.
And Sayid got shot by Ben’s dad. Here’s the thing. I went into this episode hearing lots of people predicting that Juliet was going to die. Over and over again, I kept hearing it. This pissed me the fuck off. Because I’ve mentioned the LOST vagina curse before, and we started this season with 10 main male characters and 4 female — if we were to end on 9 to 2, and if the female they decided to knock off is the one that I personally find to be the most compelling and least wishy-washy of them all (comparatively speaking), I was going to be absolutely furious.
So I really wasn’t expecting them to shoot and seemingly plan to slowly kill my favorite character. That pretty much had me yelling “noooooo — it’s fine, kill Juliet instead!” And then I realized, wait. They might kill off my favorite character and the best female character, leaving me with only my second-favorite character who is played by an unbelievably large asshole and didn’t even rate an appearance in the season finale.
Which is, it seemed, exactly what they planned to do. Right once they’d gotten me to a point where I was worried utterly sick about Sayid, and so much other exciting and wild shit was going down that I had completely forgotten that Juliet was expected to die . . . there she was, with chains wrapped around her, and getting sucked down into the giant electromagnetic hole. It was absolutely horrible — I sat there watching in horror, thinking not only did they have to kill off another fucking woman — they had to give her the most utterly horrific, awful death of anyone on the show yet. Seriously, only Boone can even begin compete with that, and only then if they actually had amputated his legs with a makeshift giant piece of metal before he died. Which they didn’t. And I’m just sitting there absolutely fuming like fuck this show, if they kill both Juliet and Sayid while letting Jack live, I’m DONE!
But, I forgot about the bomb. See, when Jack dropped it down that hole and it didn’t do anything at all, I thought there it is. Whatever happened, happened. The bomb didn’t go off because they can’t change it! And when we saw that Juliet was still alive down there, I thought Jesus Fucking Christ — there’s no way she can live through this, are you going to kill her twice???? Until she found the bomb, and she set it off, sending the screen to white, and leaving us wondering what the fuck happened.
Meaning that I’m assuming that Juliet is dead, but now we don’t actually know (more on this below), robbing me of my righteously indignant ranty post that I was going to write. But I guess that at least if she is dead, she got to die a heroic death.
SORTA RECAP: Jacob-Themed Time Line
So, the time line above left me slack jawed and just repeating the word “wow” over and over again. But this stuff with Jacob? Wow x 10.
Yes, we finally met Jacob, out on the island in the 1800s, waiting for the Black Rock to arrive. Then a dude in black — who based on theories I’ve read thus far, and primarily out of a need for name for him, I will refer to as Esau (in the same way that Tom was referred to as both Zeke and Mr. Friendly until we knew his real name) — walks up to him, and they have what might be the most important exchange we’ve ever seen on the show. Jacob is bringing the Black Rock to the island, despite the fact that “Esau” does not want him to. Esau says that it “always ends the same way” with the fighting and the destruction. Jacob doesn’t believe it has to happen that way. Esau then says he wants to kill Jacob, but seemingly he cannot. He then tells Jacob that someday, he will find his loophole and do just that.
Most shocking of all to me, at this point, was the revelation that Jacob was actually a real person with a physical body.
We then learned, as I have speculated for some time, that the “island” — here meaning Jacob — brought the Flight 815 people to the island. We saw flashbacks of him touching each and every one of the currently surviving 815 passengers, some after they already got back from the island, but all at relatively important moments in their lives. The touch itself was particularly focused on. What it means, we don’t know, but we do know, particularly based on the young age at which he visited Kate and Sawyer, that he personally chose them all, and their arrival on the island was not the “accident” that Jack and Faraday seem to believe it was.
We also learned that Jacob lives in the statue, which we got the best glimpse of last night that we will likely ever get. (The official recap confirms it as Taweret!) We learned that Ilana et al are working for Jacob. We learned that Richard doesn’t age because Jacob “made him this way” . . . which actually doesn’t tell us a whole lot. We learned that Locke (er, “Locke”) didn’t plan to kill Jacob himself, but wanted Ben to do it. We learned what lies in the shadow of the statue: he who will save us all.
Oh, and we learned that Locke really is dead. Like, seriously, actually dead. As a doornail. Dead enough to carry around in a box and present to the Others.
What. The. Fuck.
So who is the Locke visiting Jacob with Ben? Well, before Ben killed Jacob for getting sassy with him, Jacob looked at “Locke” and said “I guess you found your loophole.” And before he died, Jacob also said, I believe, “they’re coming.”
ANALYSIS/THEORIES/QUESTIONS
Ahem.
I believe it’s safe to say that “Locke” — who I will from here on out refer to as Focke (Fake Locke, duh) — is really Esau (again, for those who skipped down to this section — what I’m calling Jacob’s beach buddy who wants to kill him)? I mean, it seems pretty obvious. What other loophole could Jacob and Focke been referring to? And why else would Focke have wanted Ben to kill Jacob — other than being unable to do it himself?
So, then who is this Esau fellow? My husband theorized last night that if he takes on shape-shifting forms, he was also Christian. This makes sense to me, actually. Christian’s body arrived on the island in the same way that Locke’s did (though of course we have a body for Locke, but not one for Christian). Christian also told Locke how to do everything that he did that got Locke to the point where he would die. Which is, it seems, what Esau wanted all along.
I also saw theorizing this morning that Esau is actually the smoke monster. This makes sense to me, too, and I think that both ideas can coexist. Could it be that rather than working for the island, the smoke monster is working in opposition to it? Remember, also, that the smoke monster can shape shift. And that Esau was wearing black while Jacob was wearing white. The island might indeed not have let Ben live — but it makes total sense now that Esau would have. It further makes sense that the Smoke Monster’s incarnation of Alex would tell Ben to do everything that Focke said, despite the fact that Jacob knew right away that Focke was not Locke. And if Alex had not told Ben that, it seems that Ben would not have really ever been in a position where he could be talked into killing Jacob.
If Locke is dead, and it seems pretty damn clear that he is, this also furthers my theory that he was not “special” at all or supposed to be the leader. A lot of other stuff also starts adding up — why he would lie to Sun when Locke never ever breaks his word, to begin with. Why he knew so much about the island, for another. Why Richard seemed so sure that something was different about him. And why Richard never thought that Locke was actually special to begin with. It seems that this Focke character is likely in it for the long haul, but Locke? Locke seems unspecial, and certainly gone.
Also, am I the only one who feels like it was just a tad too easy to kill Jacob? I mean, the dude has been alive for centuries, has all kinds of crazy ass powers, controls the island, can leave it at will . . . you’d think it’d take more than a stab to the chest, right?
But, seeing as how he seems to be dead, what is going to happen now? Is this the “war” that was coming? Who did Jacob say was coming? You’d think Ilana’s people, but Jacob seemed concerned about them coming, right? Rather than saying it as a dying threat towards Focke/Esau? And Ilana’s people were working for Jacob.
Further, if what lies in the shadow of the statue is he who saves us all, who was that? All signs would point to it being Jacob. And if that’s true, and Jacob is now dead, what is going to happen? (Most interestingly of all, is Richard going to shrivel up and die now?)
And then back to the 70s time line: does any of this even fucking matter?
We closed not on Ben killing Jacob, but on Juliet setting off the bomb. And this seems absolutely fitting, not only because it was the biggest most shocking moment, but because we don’t know how her doing that is going to affect the future.
Did she change anything? Or was it just what happened all along? After all, something had to end the Incident. Judging from the fact that they had to keep pressing a button, the energy isn’t just going to burn out on its own. And I don’t know how else they filled it up with cement if not with a truck made out of metal. So, did nothing change? And this is what stopped the Incident so they could install the hatch, and Juliet just killed them all with an atomic weapon? (Because seriously, in that close proximity, they’d have to all be dead, right?)
It seems unlikely to me that they would leave not a single Oceanic crash survivor left alive except for Sun. But if you asked me before, I would’ve said that they’d never really kill Locke, and that Jacob wasn’t actually a person with a physical body. So LOST seems to have kind of thrown out the rules here. Again, unlikely, but. I feel like we can’t 100% rule it out. Only like 99%.
So then there’s the possibility that, as some suggested last week, the bomb going off caused them to time travel. Which, I assume, would mean that Juliet is dead and Sayid will likely die, but the rest will be okay, and put hopefully in the show’s present.
And then there’s the chance that Juliet really did change everything. Meaning that any number of things could go down. I’ve thought for some time that the bomb might “change” it, but the plane would just end up crashing on the island some other way because it’s what was meant to happen. Which could also mean any number of things, such as them going through the exact same time line again, or things ending up differently because there’s no hatch involved.
Or it could mean that Juliet just really changed them completely, and the plane doesn’t crash at all, and therefore everyone would be alive, including Juliet, because then she’d still be an Other and never would have time traveled to begin with. But this seems like the least likely of scenarios to me, as while they may have thrown out the rule book, I’d be really fucking pissed if they just erased the whole show as never having happened, with the final season being the only one that really matters.
I’m sure there are other possibilities I can’t even begin to fathom, especially after this episode. All I know is that I’m totally, um . . . lost. And that while I’ve seen some people really grumbling about this episode, I’ve mostly seen proclamations along the lines of Best. Episode. Ever. And while we won’t really know until we find out where this takes us, I’m leaning towards the latter.
ok, so does this mean all the dead people who appear on the show are being manifested by either Jacob or Esau? Like Alex, was she really back from the grave when she told Ben to follow Locke, or was that just Esau’s spirit taking her shape to influence Ben? Why can’t Esau directly kill Jacob? What do the hints about Charlie coming back have to do with this? I never want to hear that fake Oasis song again. Could 70′s Jacob still exist and find a loophole through some character, like Esau seemed to do? What if Esau is just working unknowingly for Jacob this whole time? etc etc. I can’t even think about the bomb right now.
I can’t believe I have to wait until 2010 to see this epic primordial battle of good vs. evil play out. Lost, I hate you but I love you. Please don’t let Sayid die.
Well, I always thought that the dead people were manifestations of the island. Specifically, after we saw Alex, I thought they were manifestations of the smoke monster. I mean, it was pretty clear, right, the smoke monster morphed right into her? But again, now I’m thinking that Esau might be the smoke monster, and am working off of a theory that “the island” and “the smoke monster” are quite possibly two wholly different entities.
So, no, I don’t think that Alex was really Alex. Yes, I do think it’s quite possible that she was manifested by Esau.
Why Esau cannot directly kill Jacob is an excellent question. And it also closely parallels the question of why Ben can’t kill Widmore.
What hints of Charlie coming back? And agreed with Sayid not dying.
WTH is a stature of the Egyptian deity Tawaret doing in the Pacific? Richard/Ricardus sort of looks like an Egyptian with the built in eyeliner but the Ricardus makes him more Roman.
According to someplace in an early scene “Jacob is weaving a phrase in Greek, which is not a repeat of ‘He who will save us all,’ but rather a line from Homer’s Odyssey (6.180) which, in smoothed out translation, reads, ‘May the gods give you everything your heart longs for.’”
Rose and Bernard could be the Adam and Eve skeletons found in a cave in S1.
Finally it would be amusing that while we concentrated on Locke vs Jack in the end blessed Hurley would be the one the island truly chooses.
Oh it’s going to be a long wait until 2010 *grumbles*
Okay, 1. Love that you’re calling him Esau.
2. Remember in the second season when it seemed like there might be two groups of Others? There were Ben and Juliett’s Others who pretended to be roughing it in camps in the jungle, but were really in the old Dharma villiage. But then there was also the group that silently and creepily walked barefoot in single-file lines, right? Was that ever explained, or is this possibly Esau’s group? Or am I totally remembering this wrong?
OH something I forgot to mention that I loved. LOST clearly has all kinds of fucked up gender issues. Tons. But, while the female characters have been made fairly useless this season, I loved that a) Juliet was the one to plan the escape from the sub and b) when the van rolled in, Kate and Juliet were the two main shooters picking the Dharma folks off. And while Sawyer was the one to end the battle by capturing Phil, I think that those two actually had the most and best kills. Don’t you think?
I’m just saying, it was a rare and utterly awesome bad ass moment out of some female characters that are way too often portrayed as weak and incapable as compared to the men.
Superla –
I always thought that they were the same group. Remember how they found the lockers with the Others costumes that made them look like they lived in the jungle even thought they didn’t?
But you’re right that the “whispers” thing has never been explained. I hadn’t considered that there might be two groups of Others — the group that’s pretending to be all wild, and a group that really is. But it’s totally possible.
Okay… There is so much I want to say, that I can’t even really untangle all of it in my head yet.
I agree with the theory that Flocke, man in black, and the smoke monster are one and the same. (It kind of annoys me that the lost fan-dom has dubbed him Esau, because I’m not at all sold on the theory that this is supposed to be Jacob & Esau, the brothers from the bible. I think we should all call him M.I.B. instead, but I digress.) I agree that at least some, if not all, of the dead who have come back to communicate with people on the island were also Esau/M.I.B., particularly Christian and Alex. But, question — can he be in two places at once? The scene where Christian tells Sun to wait in the house for Locke happened at the same time as the scene where Flocke, Ben & Richard are waiting for Locke. Didn’t it? How is that possible?
My guy doesn’t think Jacob is dead. I know there are theories that his spirit hasn’t actually died and he will use another body or shapeshift into somebody else. I don’t have a strong opinion on this.
I think Richard is alive and that Jacob made him immortal independent of Jacob being alive or dead. It makes sense that way because my guess is that Jacob made Richard that way for fear that he himself would die, and because he would need somebody to speak on his behalf while he was hiding and once he was dead. Or maybe Jacob’s spirit will enter Richard’s body? IDK…
I agree with Miles’ contention last night that their attempt to prevent the incident is causing the incident. Juliet is dead. I still think that the bomb exploding will cause all living losties to go back to the present. I think Sayid will still be alive at that moment and will jump with them, simply because I refuse to believe that he’s dying. REFUSE! If he does jump w/them, Jack will focus on fixing him and perform one of his good-old medical miracles.
Ok, that’s it for now while my brain keeps working.
Frausallybenz –
I thought at first that what Jack planned on doing might be the cause of the Incident, but I felt like it was pretty definitively shown that it was going to happen regardless. I mean, Radzinsky was going to insist on drilling whether or not Chang tried to get him to stop. And the Incident happened before the bomb went off.
I agree that it’s not necessarily Jacob/Esau, and honestly don’t know anything about that story other than what I’ve read today, but I just feel like we need a name for him. Like, an actual name. I guess we could call him M.I.B. (I actually have seen a lot of people calling him Man in Black, including ABC). But again, I like having an actual name.
Also, I think I like your use of “Flocke” better than my use of “Focke”!
I’d love to believe that Jack would focus on Sayid and save him, but then I spent a good deal of time screaming at the tv while Sawyer was insisting on talking to Jack for 5 minutes and I’m like CAN’T THIS WAIT???? SAYID DYING IN THE BACK OF THE VAN!!! IS THIS NOT EVEN WORTH MENTIONING TO THEM???? So, yeah. I kind of feel like if Juliet is dead (and I agree that she almost certainly is), that Sayid is going to be dead, too. I didn’t see much of a way out for him.
And obviously, that would piss me the fuck off.
I think Jacob isn’t exactly good (and I’m with Lapidus–those who insist they are the good guys typically, well, aren’t.). Richard and the Others have done some fucked up things for his sake and apparently at his behest–kidnapped the survivors, killed the survivors, tortured them, tried to steal children away from their parents. They kept going on and on about “good” people, and I was always left wondering how on earth these pretentious murdering pissants were qualified to decide on someone’s “goodness.” And lest we forget, Richard had easy access to the Temple and saw Jacob on a regular basis. He even took little Ben into the temple after he was shot. So I’m douting that its Esau or another force that is issuing the messed up orders–orders that the Others were expected to obey without question, until it was no longer convenient for Jacob. Then–ooooh! you have a choice, dontcha know.
I wonder if Esau is the Island, and if Jacob and the Others kept him captive. Maybe the Island wants to be left alone. Maybe the Island doesn’t want the Others to “protect” it via Jacob’s orders.
I doubt Juliet died. I do think she’s a variable. She is the one person Jacob didn’t touch–she seemed to be outside of his influence somehow. So maybe, the original incident was just the electromagnetic pocket going all wonky, and dragging everything inside. But with Juliet there to detonate the bomb, things may have actually changed. She may be a variable like Desmond.
And yes, I hear you about the female body count. We’re down to what, Kate and Sun now? I like both, don’t get me wrong, but the unshaven angst of the guys is getting on my last damn nerve. Besides, Kate and Juliet got shit done. I hope they all find themselves back on the Island in the present time, reunited with Sun and “Locke” et al.
As for Locke–well, I thought he was different–different enough where I assumed he was one of the walking dead. He was way too confident in his dealings with Ben and Richard, and way too self-assured. He was also very skeptical of everyone, unlike the original Locke, who was a bit of a rube.
Okay, I have to get in on this even though I usually lurk. OMG, this episode.
I went back to look at the key ZOMG cliffhanger moments of previous seasons and none of them has ever before even been triggered by a female character. So I was so excited about Juliet’s moment in the end. (I also was about to get really pissed if Juliet had simply died. Now I have to wait and see, dammit).
But yes, still so many gender issues. Every time we have a female character who seems to be taking an active role in the Big Overall Plot, she is inevitably taken down a peg or just.. given nothing to do. In this episode we saw it happen to Ellie. And now we finally have the Big Big plot, and it involves a conflict between men.
bah. You annoy me even as I can’t get enough of you, Lost!
WTH is a stature of the Egyptian deity Tawaret doing in the Pacific? Richard/Ricardus sort of looks like an Egyptian with the built in eyeliner but the Ricardus makes him more Roman.
The island isn’t in a fixed position on the earth, so it could have been near Egypt at one point, if I understood that explanation from Elloise correctly in a previous episode.
Didn’t the statue look like a man? Gah, I need to go home and watch again!
Cara–maybe I’m wrong, but I thought Sun finding the DS (aka Drive Shaft…ugh) ring and Jacob giving Hurley the guitar case (which he brought back to the island with him)…I guess anything could be in the guitar case, and obviously the guitar is not a rare instrument, but I just feel like this show doesn’t put hints in unless they are leading up to something crazy. And Charlie coming back into things would definitely be crazy.
Speaking of M.I.B., wouldn’t it be awesome if the entire series ended with the reveal that the island is controlled by giant aliens playing marbles with the universe? That’s my best guess at this point.
Cara, trueness on the incident happening before the bomb went off. My point really was just that the way it happened last night was the way it was meant to happen and always happened, but my thoughts got confused. But let’s not mention any more of this Sayid dying business, k? It makes me sad…
Oh, hey, question! Do we know when the statue was destroyed? Another, I’ve seen people refer to a white smoke of some sort that Locke once saw on the island — when was this?? Some theories are saying the white smoke was Jacob, the black smoke is Esau/MIB.
Also, anybody else bothered by the fact that after all this focus on Egypt in the background (on walls underground, in the classroom, etc.), the answer to what lies in the shadow of the statue was in Latin and the writing on the tapestry is in Greek? I realize this is the silliest thing to bring up, and I’m a bit of a nerd for it, but I was a bit perturbed about that.
Ah, but he didn’t touch Miles either (or Lapidus). Only the 815-ers, and remember, Juliet wasn’t one of them. I mean, I hope you’re right. Because yes, if you’re not, we’re down to Kate and Sun. And Kate hasn’t been given any meat in a while, and Sun has turned into someone who just follows the men around and bemoans the fact that she can’t find her husband. (Not that I’m saying I would act differently in the same circumstances — I’m sure I’d want to find my husband, too. But the fact is that they wrote this storyline for her, when I imagine that there were many others they could have written.)
Huh, hadn’t considered that. Though it’ll be sad if the one super major event a woman ever triggers also results in one less woman on a show that already is seriously lacking in women.
Lots of people are saying that, but I don’t see it. I mean, I originally read the statue as female — which could admittedly be because I’m trained to read “long hair and pseudo-skirt” as “female,” even though in the context of an Egyptian god it would be totally meaningless. But I also see curves at the hips and form that goes in slightly at the waist. And the view from the side we got tonight makes the body look thin, but that doesn’t mean much, and we can’t see enough to tell whether it has breasts. The statue is definitely somewhat angular, but I don’t think that necessarily says “male.” Really, what we’ve seen so far is fairly androgynous.
I need to look at screencaps or watch again, because it could easily have been my assumption, partly because my original thought was that it was Anubis.
Though it’ll be sad if the one super major event a woman ever triggers also results in one less woman on a show that already is seriously lacking in women.
….very true. Sigh.
Astrea — The two screencaps are here.
Yeah, I put this idea in the post. But the thing that makes me question it is the fact that we know Chang and Radzinsky lived through the Incident. Wouldn’t the bomb have likely killed them, too? I mean, they were running away, but they couldn’t have been more than a couple miles. I’m not a big expert on atomic weapons, but . . . don’t those things usually have a fairly big range?
I seriously SOBBED for Juliet last night. If she indeed is gone, I’d say it ranks up there among the most purposeful and influential character deaths on the show. Charlie’s sacrifice doesn’t even come close. However, I’m still trying to balance the idea that they wouldn’t kill off multiple main characters in a nuclear blast…with the idea that they’d prevent 815 from crashing in the first place. There has to be a middle way, an out that the writers are going to sneak past us!
Well, it’s possible that Juliet, Miles, or Faraday *could* have been variables since they weren’t touched by Jacob, but that Juliet succeeded in it. I was thinking it was most likely to be Juliet, though, because she was brought to the Island by Jacob’s followers (who followed his orders without question). Yet she was never truly touched by Jacob and was considered to be an outsider by the others (even though they expected her to abide by their rules). Not only was she not touched by Jacob, she was pretty alienated from his followers and everything they represented. She was like an excommunicated person–she knew their “church” and their ways but was sort of cast out. She’s one real wildcard in that sense.
Thanks, Cara. Obviously the part where I remembered seeing more of the chest was all in my head. O_o
Well, it’s possible that Juliet, Miles, or Faraday *could* have been variables since they weren’t touched by Jacob, but that Juliet succeeded in it.
Also, Miles was born on the island and Faraday is the child of one of the Others (I’m not clear on where he was born), so Juliet is the only one who doesn’t have ties to the island in addition to not being touched by Jacob. In that sense she’s the only real variable.
just holy hell.
this episode was hog wild.
although i did not like juliet OR kate, what i did like was the fact that although LOST seems to play right into the tired gender roles, they never had the women calling each other sluts or underming each other for their own benefit or literally fighting over jack or sawyer. although they were apprehensive with each other during most run-ins, kate reaches out to juliet in this episode and thanks her for having her back in the submarine. in the end, its kate who reaches for juliet when she could have looked the other way.
like i said, i don’t care for juliet but i did not appreciate the way they seemingly had juliet die! it was truly the most heartwrencing one of all….she finally had some happiness after all these years being coerced onto the island and held there…and sawyer, had softened up and finally began to settle into himself and actually take a woman seriously, her thoughts, opinions…and it was literally ripped from away from them. awful.
i can’t even begin to get into sayid. or the incident. or the meaning of the statue. or jacob. or anything.
white flash, end scene.
Regarding the statue’s “gender:”
“Taweret (Taueret, Taurt, Toeris, Ipy, Ipet, Apet, Opet, Reret) – The Great Female – was the ancient Egyptian goddess of maternity and childbirth, protector of women and children. Like Bes, she was both a fierce demonic fighter as well as a popular deity who guarded the mother and her newborn child.
She was depicted as a combination of a crocodile, a pregnant hippopotamus standing on her hind legs with large breasts and a lion. Unlike the composite demoness Ammut, her head and body were that of the hippo, her paws were that of the lion, and her back was the back of a crocodile. All of these animals were man killers, and as such she was a demoness. ”
At the end of “Dead is Dead,” they showed a close-up of an etching on the wall showing a hieroglyphic-version of smokey chilling with Anubis.
Anubis – Death
Taweret – Childbirth, Fertility, LIFE
so if you follow the theory that Flocke is in with the smoke monster, it totally makes sense with the various dichotomies…Jacob/Flocke, White/Black, Life/Death.
I realize now what I was thinking. The woven image found in the cabin!
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:BramHoldingStatue.png
Ah, yes, I forgot about that! Also, for those interested, here is the Lostpedia page on theories about the statue.
I really just want to believe the ABC site on this one because . . . well, there’s more than enough to think about and want answered without still wondering about who the damn statue represents :) But I also don’t know what their track record is like, and if ABC has a direct line to the show’s writers, etc. I mean, they would have to have gotten it from somewhere, and it seems like it would be irresponsible for them to read LOST fan sites, see their assertions that the statue is Taweret and then publish it as fact . . . but again, I don’t follow this stuff quite closely enough to know if that’s something they’d actually do.
And I would love for it to be a Goddess and not a God. But it is dressed more like Egyptian images of male figures than female.
It does seem strange that the ABC site would state something like that without reason.
Remember Ben summoned the Smoke Monster. Ben told Sun he can’t control what comes out of the jungle. Cue Locke coming out of the jungle.
I think the bomb brings people back from the 70s. I can’t see the start of season 6 with the passengers of Oceanic 815 picking up their luggage. Jack goes back to the hospital and Lost becomes Scrubs? It would certainly make season 6 different.
How exactly do they kill the Smoke Monster? Widmore talked about a war coming to the island. Does Smokey starts killing people now that Jacob is dead?
I listened to a podcast that had the theory Jacob and Smokey were running a game. (The show has used games as a theme.) Jacob would bring people to the island and Smokey would prove he can corrupt them.
I think Juliet and Sayid are dead. The incident happened the way it was suppose to.
At least we are fairly sure Christian Shepard is Smokey. Remember, Christian told Sun to wait for Locke. Alex told Ben to obey Locke. Smokey went to a lot of trouble to kill Echo. Whom was a Priest and the only person that didn’t run from Smokey.
It has to be Taweret…ABC wouldn’t post that unless it were true, at least I would hope so. Plus, we still need some sort of answer as to why people living on the island have had such a hard time with pregnancy and such (this started sometime post-’77 as Ethan was born with no complications, go juliet). Because OF COURSE the writers love us enough to wrap up everything nice and neatly in the last seventeen hours of the entire series, right? I’ll just keep holding on to that delusion….
ok, I am willing to consider the possibility of it being Sobek, as the statue didn’t look all that pregnant, and the face was pretty crocodilish….still rooting for Taweret though.
I’m really hoping Juliet somehow makes it out alive, whether Faraday was right and the bomb reset (although if that happens they’d better spend the next season explaining how they can undo five seasons without wasting my time, lol), or through some other ~wacky island doings~, because she’s been my favorite for some time now, particularly her interplay with Sawyer.
And did anyone else notice that, while Jacob came into everyone’s lives at trying times (except for Kate’s – her first law-breaking was significant, but not traumatic), but Sayid’s was the only time his presence was more a negative than anything else? He helped out Kate by buying the lunchbox, helped Sawyer by giving him a fresh pen and offering words of comfort, comforted Locke, gave Jack his candy bar and some crpytic-ish wisdom, set Hurley on course to the island and left him rethinking his “curse”…but Sayid he pulled back, stopping their progress so Nadya would be in place for the accident and Sayid would have to lose her. There was some good in every one of his visits – except Sayid’s.
Coming totally out of nowhere–but I’m really stuck on “What lies in the shadow of the statue/He who will save us all.” Because if we’re talking about the shadow, that’s actually somewhere else on the island, not the base of the statue. Possibly close to the statue, sure, but it was also a big fucking statue, so it cast a big fucking shadow in its day.
One theory would be a dead body somewhere on the island (lying in a grave?), but I can’t really think of who that would be.
Thus, my much, much crazier theory: this has something to do with Aaron, who was, while he was on the island, lying in a crib on the beach for a good chunk of time.
(This is a completely groundless assertion, but it’ll feel that much more awesome if I turn out to be right. Kentucky Derby!)
…Crazy theory part II: We’ve all been taking “lies” to mean the physical, but what if we’re talking about telling lies? In which case my money is on Ben, especially given the exchange he had with Sun just before going to kill Jacob.
After Ben went all ‘woe is me’ on Jacob, Jacob muttered “they’re coming.”
I think the ‘they’ he is referring to are the 815 70′s crew that Jacob visited at some point. (Kate, Sawyer, Jack, Sayid, Hurley, Jin -sorry Miles, I don’t think you’re making it.) And the incident, Juliet living just long enough to set off the bomb, is what sends them to the present day Jacob/Esau showdown.
Of course, Jacob knew this would happen all along, he knew Esau would find that loophole and he needed someway to save himself. When he visited the Losties in their seemingly normal pre-island lives (with the exception of Hurley & Sayid, whom he visited after), he made it a point to physically touch them all. By touching them, he left a part of him with them. And when they all shoot through time again they will converge into the foot and fight the epic battle of Good vs Evil, with Jacob and Esau as captains of each team, respectively.
And to add fuel to the fire (no pun intended) Esau kicks poor ol’ Jacob into the fire after he tells them “they’re coming.” Esau is realizing all that hard work has been a waste, because Jacob was ready for it all along.
[...] post at The Feministe [...]
Normally just a reader and not a poster, but I just can’t resist. Does anyone remember when someone in the cabin said “Help me?” when Ben & Locke were there in an earlier episode? My vague impression was that someone was being held captive. So, who said that? Smokey, or Jacob? If Jacob’s not the one who’s been using it, as Ilana said, then could the person asking for help have been Smokey/MIB, somehow a captive?
I also don’t think we can rule out the possibility that neither Smokey nor Jacob is “good.” There is never a simply “good” side. Ben vs. Widmore: both evil or at least definitely not good. The Others – now they seem rather harmless campers, but earlier, evil schemers. Dharma, not so great. Ilana’s crowd, hard to say, but Lapidus’ comment is apt. Which leaves the survivors of 815, who don’t really seem capable of being forces for good or evil. They just bumble.
Very frustrating about Juliet and Sayid, if they do die. And what’s with Kate’s sudden change of heart from gun-wielding,”we’ve got to stop Jack,” to earnest eye-contact and then, basically, “whatever you say Jack”? Errgh. Could they make her character any more senseless? Why can’t they write realistic, complex, and robust female characters? Even Juliet this week, for all that she drove key plot points, was totally ridiculous: now I’ve decided let’s just kill everyone on the island and/or turn back the clock for everyone, because you looked at another woman, or, no, it’s not that, it’s because I love you too much and I don’t want to be hurt by you, Sawyer. Who the hell acts like that?
I did notice this, actually. But I don’t know what to make of it. Other than an indication that he has no intention to let Sayid live. Which I don’t want to believe. haha.
Huh. This could make sense.
Yes, I do. My husband had a theory that Jacob was in fact being held captive and therefore being killed is the only way Locke could free him, and that’s how he wanted help.
Now we know that obviously can’t be true on numerous counts.
You know, when I was watching the show, I was convinced that I recognized Jacob as the dude we saw in the chair. Absolutely convinced. But I remembered what “Jacob” looked like totally wrong. And that dude in the chair? No way that’s Jacob.
So. Yeah. Apparently someone else was living in the cabin. But who? It doesn’t look at all like Esau, but perhaps it could be? I don’t know. We have no evidence that Jacob changes form, but perhaps Esau could.
My mind was just blown. I have no idea. But yeah. Chair “Jacob” is not the Jacob we met in the finale.
Reading further, it seems that the “Jacob” we saw in that episode was actually just played by a random crew personn rather than anyone who was expected to act as a recurring character.
Still. They had to know that it was going to be screencapped and endlessly discussed. You’d think if it was supposed to be the same person, they’d have at least picked someone vaguely similar in appearance.
I’m pretty sure chair Jacob was Christian Shepherd. He had on the same white shoes, anyway.
I thought the dude we saw in the chair with the white shoes (obviously Christian) was on a totally different visit? Am I confusing something?
For some reason, I thought they showed the shoes when Locke and Ben visited the cabin, but maybe it was during Hurley’s visit.
Great discussion. I love that Juliet could be a variable, maybe like Desmond. Her flashback showed a completely modern house, modern haircuts, furniture, clothing, everything. This seems really odd, considering all the other childhood flashbacks were purposefully period.
Yes, I definitely noticed this. Particularly on the count of Kate. When she changed her mind and decided to go along with him, I seriously just said to the TV “oh, fuck you.” I mean, Juliet’s explanation for changing her mind was pretty pathetic and twisted, but hey, I think that Jack’s reason for wanting to set off the bomb even worse. And at least they gave her one.
I think one could make the case that the shadowy figure in the cabin in “The Man Behind the Curtain” looks like Man #2, based on the actor’s (Titus Welliver) part in Deadwood as long-haired, bearded Silas Adams. But whoever it’s supposed to be, I’d expect that brief moment to be reshot and redubbed for the final DVD box set release when the show is over.
I am going to agree about Esau being not-esau, and not-evil. The only non-ambiguous visit Jacob had was Locke’s, and even then, he could have, you know, caught him or something. He kept Kate from being Scared Straight, he may have gotten Nadya killed, he encouraged Sawyer on his vendetta. Jack’s and Hurley’s visits were ambiguous.
And yeah, Jacob lived BELOW the statue, not in its shadow. My guess is the cabin is in the shadow, but from the cloth picture: http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/File:BramHoldingStatue.png it looks like the shadow actually stretches across the water, maybe to mini-island.
The fish Jacob was eating looked an awful lot like a Red Herring, also. Visual pun/indicator?
Plus, b&W shirts is just like, too, too obvious for LOST. I hope.
And what’s with Kate’s sudden change of heart from gun-wielding,”we’ve got to stop Jack,” to earnest eye-contact and then, basically, “whatever you say Jack”? Errgh. Could they make her character any more senseless?
I shared this with Cara. No one likes the Kate character. She is poorly written. JJ Abrams made it no secret he cast Evangeline Lilly to make the next Jennifer Garner. The problem is Lilly literally had no acting experience. I think Lilly was just grateful for the job and never had the nerve to walk into the writers’ room and say “This is shit.” I given up on Kate making sense. Abrams wanted a Maxim girl. He wasn’t interested in an actress.
I feel sorry for Terry O’Quinn. His work has been fantastic. His acting in the episode “The Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham” was most made it the best Lost episode. (Lilly’s scene with O’Quinn was her best.) O’Quinn is now playing the smoke monster. That seems lame to me. I do hope O’Quinn receives an Emmy for the Bentham. Locke isn’t a liable character. O’Quinn made me feel the pain of his death and we knew Locke was going to die.
I mentioned in passing, on another blog, Battlestar Galactica and The Wire had being character development and acting than Lost. Those shows were on during most of Lost’s time and had complicated plots. I was told the acting on BSG and TW was subpar compared to Lost. I about shit myself. Those shows certainly had better female characters with Snoop, Kima, Starbuck and Roslin. And people stayed away from TW and BSG. Sigh.
Jacob seemed like a disappointment. A supernatural being is killed by Ben? WTF? The Smoke Monster knew everything about the island but couldn’t find Jacob. Even though they sit and have conversations together by the statue. I will be happy when the Island is finally destroyed.
I think the producers acknowledged how much the fans hate Jack. Why else would Sawyer beat him up?
Is it me or are the Losties acting more and more like the Scooby Doo Gang. Substitute Dharma Initiative van for the Mystery Machine. The dog Vincent was in the episode. Don’t be surprised if Jacob and the Smoke Monster are revealed as two gold prospectors trying to scare people off the island.
Jacob: We would of had the deed to the land…
Smoke Monster: If theses meddling plane crash survivors didn’t come back.
Posting for the first time ever, purely because this episode pissed me off so much. Juliet went from being my favourite female character to having nothing to do this season, to the point where I was almost glad she died if only because it gave her a scene. EM is an awesome actress but her entire purpose this season was to make sad/angry/confused faces whenever Sawyer mentioned Kate. Or talked to her. Or looked in her general direction. It was out of character and embarrassing. And I still have no idea what direction they’re going in with the goddamn triangle, but I wish they’d just give it up. I loathe love triangles/quadrangles at the best of times, and Kate and Sawyer are no Kara and Lee. At least that was in character and well acted. Most of the time I can’t tell what Kate is thinking, and I think that’s 50% bad acting and 50% writers trying so desperately to make plot twists that even the actors don’t know what the endgame is or what their characters are feeling.
OTOH I loved the whole Esau/Jacob storyline and seeing the flashbacks. Also Sawyer beating Jack up was long overdue. I haven’t liked Jack since season 3 but at this point I hate him so much I feel like going all the way to Hawaii just to bitchslap Matthew Fox. And after Kate not being his doormat this season, she managed an impressive last minute turnaround. There wasn’t any grovelling and only a little bit of crying, but give it time. I quite enjoyed his hospital flashback because it showed that Jack was a whiny douchebag even before anything bad happened to him. I’d always suspected.
Oh, and am I the only one who automatically labelled Jacob as evil purely because he was played by Darla’s abusive husband on Dexter?
BWAHAHAHAHA. Okay I just about fell out of my chair laughing.
Jeez, I think I’m the one Jack and Kate fan left! Jack is flawed as all hell, but I guess I can relate to him. And I always liked Kate because she’s in on the action. The charecters mind-changing was really convoluted and crazy making, and the love triangle/quadrangle was fucking annoying. Really, the writing–when it comes to charecter development–is just horrific. Before Juliet hooked up with Sawyer, I thought that Kate, Jack, and Sawyer should just be a poly household and be done with it.
I didn’t like Juliet at first, but I really liked her this season. I liked her and Sawyer together (and I was NEVER a Sawyer fan–angsty bad-boys irritate the everloving fuck out of me, though Josh Holloway is very easy on the eyes). The whole “WHERE DO YOU THINK YOU’RE GOING BLONDIE” moment at the Swan had me all teary eyed.
I love the fact, though, that despite the weirdness over Sawyer, Juliet and Kate had each other’s backs. Juliet may have felt insecure about Kate, and Kate may have been weirded out, but they had no problem teaming up and getting shit done when it needed to get done (saving Ben, stopping Jack/then going along with him, etc.). And it was Kate who first grabbed Juliet when she got sucked into the hole.
I see another sitcom spinoff–with the two couples living next door to each other and Kate and Juliet getting into all kinds of trouble.
Speed Racer is reason enough to bitchslap Matthew Fox.
I always liked Josh Holloway’s work as Sawyer. I have watched interviews with Holloway and is voice is in a higher pitch and body mannerisms are different. He has done a good job of becoming the character. I don’t think Sawyer was intended to become a heroic character. It’s the Lost writers make the leaders Jack, Locke and Ana-Lucia unintentionally irritating. Holloway became popular so Sawyer became a hero.
The producers sorta admit they make the characters do irration things.
Damon Lindelof is full of shit. I like to hear him explain why Jack and Sayid thought the best way to rescue Walt was to set themselves up to be ambushed. To me, that is the biggest mystery of the show. The Walt rescue makes no sense and destroyed the credibility of their hero. Fans turned on Jack after the Walt rescue attempt.
[...] It seems that now we’re calling OMG Esau, and there is loose speculation that Esau is the smoke monster. By the way, since you asked, [...]
It’s probably redundant, since it was pointed out on the ABC site, but the statue was also part of the solution to one of the crypto puzzles in the May issue of wired.
…which also says it is Taweret.
http://mestizorocks.blogspot.com/2009/05/spoiler-alert-lost-puzzle-solution-from.html
Huh theres another Lynn.