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	<title>Comments on: Why care about actual babies when dolls are so much cuter?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/</link>
	<description>In defense of the sanctimonious women&#039;s studies set.</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Fri, 10 Feb 2012 13:14:04 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: opit</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/#comment-241830</link>
		<dc:creator>opit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 22:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13429#comment-241830</guid>
		<description>At the risk of sounding like an insensitive raving lunatic - just a matter of perspective - I have long ago decided that sexual identity politics are all about power and subjugation. Which means you are right to to incensed : but likely not going to make any headway against dishonest appeals to &#039;spiritual authority&#039; and mass marketing of unadulterated headbanging mind control. I&#039;m thinking Moonie-style, no less.
 It isn&#039;t a &#039;debate&#039; in the sense of the other party having to make sense : it&#039;s all emotional appeal to dishonest cant and repetitive programming via Fox and pulpit for the disdainfully-named &#039;Base&#039;.
After a visit to Wikipedia to review the concept &quot;Moving the Overton Window&#039;  check out this old post from daily Kos : http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/9/205251/2950  I have listed this and other articles on my Links page for years but don&#039;t seem to get the message out - any more than Needlenose could.
At least you will &#039;know the enemy.&#039;
And yes, that&#039;s a busy place. The section is on the Links page in the right hand column and well down - but fairly extensive.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the risk of sounding like an insensitive raving lunatic &#8211; just a matter of perspective &#8211; I have long ago decided that sexual identity politics are all about power and subjugation. Which means you are right to to incensed : but likely not going to make any headway against dishonest appeals to &#8216;spiritual authority&#8217; and mass marketing of unadulterated headbanging mind control. I&#8217;m thinking Moonie-style, no less.<br />
 It isn&#8217;t a &#8216;debate&#8217; in the sense of the other party having to make sense : it&#8217;s all emotional appeal to dishonest cant and repetitive programming via Fox and pulpit for the disdainfully-named &#8216;Base&#8217;.<br />
After a visit to Wikipedia to review the concept &#8220;Moving the Overton Window&#8217;  check out this old post from daily Kos : <a href="http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/9/205251/2950" rel="nofollow">http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/5/9/205251/2950</a>  I have listed this and other articles on my Links page for years but don&#8217;t seem to get the message out &#8211; any more than Needlenose could.<br />
At least you will &#8216;know the enemy.&#8217;<br />
And yes, that&#8217;s a busy place. The section is on the Links page in the right hand column and well down &#8211; but fairly extensive.</p>
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		<title>By: preying mantis</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/#comment-241805</link>
		<dc:creator>preying mantis</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 18:58:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13429#comment-241805</guid>
		<description>&quot;On talk.abortion (where I honed my mad abortion-debate skillz), I dealt with someone who was upset that the legality of abortion was forcing choice on her.&quot;

Every so often you will run across someone who&#039;s pissed that the world expects them to act like a fucking adult for once and have either the chutzpah or lack of self-awareness to admit it.  Unfortunately, the people who have a potent cocktail of narcissism and belief in false dichotomies are quite a bit more common.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;On talk.abortion (where I honed my mad abortion-debate skillz), I dealt with someone who was upset that the legality of abortion was forcing choice on her.&#8221;</p>
<p>Every so often you will run across someone who&#8217;s pissed that the world expects them to act like a fucking adult for once and have either the chutzpah or lack of self-awareness to admit it.  Unfortunately, the people who have a potent cocktail of narcissism and belief in false dichotomies are quite a bit more common.</p>
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		<title>By: Bitter Scribe</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/#comment-241804</link>
		<dc:creator>Bitter Scribe</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 18:05:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13429#comment-241804</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Obama’s approach—practical, nonideological, “pro-choice” but hardly pro-abortion—is more likely than any of the alternatives to keep it relatively civil.

&lt;/i&gt;The only thing that&#039;s going to make the abortion debate &quot;civil&quot; is if the obnoxious &quot;pro-life&quot; jerks get a clue. As long as they think their opinions are so important that they need never take anyone else&#039;s rights and feelings into account, they&#039;re going to go on being obnoxious jerks. Regrettably, I don&#039;t see that changing.

In any case, this issue really isn&#039;t open to compromise. Either you believe pregnant women should be forced to bear children against their will, or you don&#039;t.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Obama’s approach—practical, nonideological, “pro-choice” but hardly pro-abortion—is more likely than any of the alternatives to keep it relatively civil.</p>
<p></i>The only thing that&#8217;s going to make the abortion debate &#8220;civil&#8221; is if the obnoxious &#8220;pro-life&#8221; jerks get a clue. As long as they think their opinions are so important that they need never take anyone else&#8217;s rights and feelings into account, they&#8217;re going to go on being obnoxious jerks. Regrettably, I don&#8217;t see that changing.</p>
<p>In any case, this issue really isn&#8217;t open to compromise. Either you believe pregnant women should be forced to bear children against their will, or you don&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Dianne</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/#comment-241803</link>
		<dc:creator>Dianne</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 17:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13429#comment-241803</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;If we applied that logic, we should also outlaw adoption, because there are many women who regret giving up their child to adoption.
&lt;/i&gt;

Not to mention reproduction, since it&#039;s by no means unknown for women (and men) to regret having had children.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>If we applied that logic, we should also outlaw adoption, because there are many women who regret giving up their child to adoption.<br />
</i></p>
<p>Not to mention reproduction, since it&#8217;s by no means unknown for women (and men) to regret having had children.</p>
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		<title>By: Cactus Wren</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/#comment-241802</link>
		<dc:creator>Cactus Wren</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 17:47:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13429#comment-241802</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Regret is simply a consequence of making a decision. If you don’t want to regret anything, then give away all of your rights.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
On talk.abortion (where I honed my mad abortion-debate skillz), I dealt with someone who was upset that the legality of abortion was &lt;i&gt;forcing&lt;/i&gt; choice on her.  I pointed out that no one was requiring or demanding that she &lt;i&gt;do&lt;/i&gt; anything:  it only meant that she had the choice, and the legal right to make it.  But her complaint was actually, &quot;Yes, exactly!  They&#039;re &lt;i&gt;forcing&lt;/i&gt; me to have the right to choose!  I don&#039;t &lt;i&gt;want&lt;/i&gt; to have that right, and they&#039;re forcing it on me!&quot;  All I could do was roll my eyes.  (This was before I ran across the Prairie Muffin types who want to renounce the right to vote -- and want to renounce it for me too.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Regret is simply a consequence of making a decision. If you don’t want to regret anything, then give away all of your rights.</p></blockquote>
<p>On talk.abortion (where I honed my mad abortion-debate skillz), I dealt with someone who was upset that the legality of abortion was <i>forcing</i> choice on her.  I pointed out that no one was requiring or demanding that she <i>do</i> anything:  it only meant that she had the choice, and the legal right to make it.  But her complaint was actually, &#8220;Yes, exactly!  They&#8217;re <i>forcing</i> me to have the right to choose!  I don&#8217;t <i>want</i> to have that right, and they&#8217;re forcing it on me!&#8221;  All I could do was roll my eyes.  (This was before I ran across the Prairie Muffin types who want to renounce the right to vote &#8212; and want to renounce it for me too.)</p>
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		<title>By: prefer not to say</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/#comment-241800</link>
		<dc:creator>prefer not to say</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 17:28:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13429#comment-241800</guid>
		<description>Thanks for making the distinction between faith and politics. It&#039;s nice to see someone doing it. 

To complicate the idea that this is about Catholicism I might also add that the majority of Catholics who attend mass every Sunday are Hispanic, not white. And they overwhelmingly voted for Obama. 

I know many many pro-life Catholics who voted for Obama because the strategy of voting for people who wanted to make abortion illegal clearly wasn&#039;t working and they sincerely hope that better support for the poor might at least reduce the abortion rate. I&#039;m not sure that any of them own Sponge Bob Sqaurepants babydoll stroller, though, so they might not count as &quot;real&quot; Catholics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for making the distinction between faith and politics. It&#8217;s nice to see someone doing it. </p>
<p>To complicate the idea that this is about Catholicism I might also add that the majority of Catholics who attend mass every Sunday are Hispanic, not white. And they overwhelmingly voted for Obama. </p>
<p>I know many many pro-life Catholics who voted for Obama because the strategy of voting for people who wanted to make abortion illegal clearly wasn&#8217;t working and they sincerely hope that better support for the poor might at least reduce the abortion rate. I&#8217;m not sure that any of them own Sponge Bob Sqaurepants babydoll stroller, though, so they might not count as &#8220;real&#8221; Catholics.</p>
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		<title>By: ThickRedGlasses</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/#comment-241799</link>
		<dc:creator>ThickRedGlasses</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 16:58:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13429#comment-241799</guid>
		<description>Seriously, ebsith. Regret is simply a consequence of making a decision. If you don&#039;t want to regret anything, then give away all of your rights.

And carrying around those plastic babies reminds me of something I saw on BBC America about women who collect these lifelike baby dolls and treat them like real babies.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Seriously, ebsith. Regret is simply a consequence of making a decision. If you don&#8217;t want to regret anything, then give away all of your rights.</p>
<p>And carrying around those plastic babies reminds me of something I saw on BBC America about women who collect these lifelike baby dolls and treat them like real babies.</p>
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		<title>By: ebsith</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/#comment-241796</link>
		<dc:creator>ebsith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 16:40:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13429#comment-241796</guid>
		<description>I guess the cabbage patch dolls are supposed to represent aborted &quot;babies&quot;?

I find the &quot;I regret my abortion&quot;  signs absurd.  That statement is not meant to in anyway downplay the emotional torture that can accompany abortion.  However, I think it is ridiculous to say &quot;well, I made a mistake and I wish someone had told me I wasn&#039;t allowed.  I should have carried it to term.  Oh, and since I made a mistake, I think I should be able to decide for all of you.&quot;  If we applied that logic, we should also outlaw adoption, because there are many women who regret giving up their child to adoption.

*sigh*</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I guess the cabbage patch dolls are supposed to represent aborted &#8220;babies&#8221;?</p>
<p>I find the &#8220;I regret my abortion&#8221;  signs absurd.  That statement is not meant to in anyway downplay the emotional torture that can accompany abortion.  However, I think it is ridiculous to say &#8220;well, I made a mistake and I wish someone had told me I wasn&#8217;t allowed.  I should have carried it to term.  Oh, and since I made a mistake, I think I should be able to decide for all of you.&#8221;  If we applied that logic, we should also outlaw adoption, because there are many women who regret giving up their child to adoption.</p>
<p>*sigh*</p>
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		<title>By: micheyd</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/#comment-241792</link>
		<dc:creator>micheyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 16:03:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13429#comment-241792</guid>
		<description>Huh, funny that he would use a Cabbage Patch doll - with all the associated mythology of them just springing wholly formed from asexual cabbages.  Another convenient way for them to forget that women even exist in this equation?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Huh, funny that he would use a Cabbage Patch doll &#8211; with all the associated mythology of them just springing wholly formed from asexual cabbages.  Another convenient way for them to forget that women even exist in this equation?</p>
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		<title>By: Suzanne M</title>
		<link>http://www.feministe.us/blog/archives/2009/05/15/why-care-about-actual-babies-when-dolls-are-so-much-cuter/#comment-241789</link>
		<dc:creator>Suzanne M</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 15 May 2009 15:28:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.feministe.us/blog/?p=13429#comment-241789</guid>
		<description>Well, shit, babies are only props to them anyway, so I guess it doesn&#039;t matter whether they&#039;re made of flesh &amp; blood or synthetic fibers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well, shit, babies are only props to them anyway, so I guess it doesn&#8217;t matter whether they&#8217;re made of flesh &amp; blood or synthetic fibers.</p>
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