Comments on: The Mommy Gap

By: Siobhan

Siobhan — Mon, 24 Aug 2009 05:50:16 +0000

I believe that women should have an equal standing in the workplace as men and should not be discriminated against on the basis of gender.
Historically, women have been looked down on socially and have had drastically reduced rights and opportunities in the workplace. Even today, women generally have lower wages than men, fewer permanent jobs and more part-time jobs and lowered job security due to unpreventable interruptions, such as maternity leave.
In this day and age, with government regulations to restrict discrimination on the basis of sex, it is said that women are still discriminated against in the workplace, even if subconsciously. As difficult as this issue may be to remedy, I think that any employer who truly strived to create a workplace environment of fairness and equality would make a conscious effort to ensure that women and men are on an equal standing at the “beginning of the day” and would form opinions on the basis of individual merits. They would also take into account the issues that are faced by women and not penalise them for these unavoidable interruptions. Only through conscious effort can we ever expect to change things that have been the same for so long.

By: Alyssa

Alyssa — Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:36:24 +0000

I’m sorry I’m commenting on this so much after the fact. I haven’t had time to visit this site in a while and am just catching up. But this comment is more for the bloggers and moderators at this site, so I know it will be seen by the right person.
Jill, thank you so much for bringing this to our attention. As a mother, I can’t help but feel that the needs of mothers often go over looked in the feminist community (This is particularly true over at Feministing and the F word, one of a few reasons I almost never read articles there anymore). Somehow many people expect us to hang up our feminism with the birth of a child, even though as UnhingedHips (comment 9) mentions, this was the start of her feminism (and a renewed sense of feminism in my own case). Just the fact that this article hardly has any comment on it speaks volumes about the invisability of mothers in feminist discourse.
While I am delighted you brought this to our attention, I am appalled at the comments section. A few commentors seem to believe it is true that working mothers juat aren’t good employees when they say working mothers can’t “reliably be [at work] consistently and on time”, and another says “If [companies] aren’t hiring mothers, or are offering them less money when they do, is it because they’ve had negative experiences in the past with regard to the productivity/work product of mothers v. childfree women?” There was only one commentor willing to posit that working mothers are just as good employees as childless women (and while yes she did have some vitriol in her comment, I can’t blame her as she was clearly offended by the remark as was I). After said commentor tried to explain how working mothers can (and are) just as good employees as anyone else, three others take to the task of ripping her apart, effectivly silencing her.
I would just like to ask you to keep up the good work by giving mothers a voice in feminist discussions. I would also like to ask that when you do, that someone is careful to watch the comments, to help make sure that voice isn’t silenced in the comments section.

By: Fresh Peaches

Fresh Peaches — Thu, 11 Jun 2009 03:05:16 +0000

Wow. Way to read what you wanted into my comments. Good job there.

Nowhere in my comment did I say ALL working mothers. I was actually careful to use the words “my experience that by and large (though certainly not in every case)” so I’m not sure where you’re translating that into a personal attack on mothers and yourself in particular, apparently.

Funny how my point about the need for infrastructure and support for working mothers to make the situation better for everyone slipped by unnoticed…

Also, where exactly did I say ANYTHING to the effect that I “don’t like hearing about [your] kids” but love to come in hungover and talking about one night stands? Where in the hell did that come from?

I am sorry that my account of my own experiences and perceptions based on those experiences upset you so, but I think your venom was totally uncalled for. My hope was to discuss solutions (such as the flexible childcare and ability to have children in the office that I mentioned) that would help level the playing field without interfereing with the conduct of business. My intent was not to piss anyone off, though apparently it was your intent to piss me off. I’m not here to attack you back. (Much. But COME ON, really? How is it appropriate to basically slut-shame the childless?)

And since you brought it up, I have always found it MUCH harder to get time off based on the fact that I do not have kids. Particularly around holidays. But I don’t begrudge them that. They really do need more flexibility than I do. Sorry that the people you work for and with have clearly treated you so crappily…

I have a feeling I’m shouting into the wind here anyway.

By: ShelbyWoo

ShelbyWoo — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:35:30 +0000

*when, in fact, this affects ALL workers…

See Alara Rogers comment as it illustrates this nicely

By: ShelbyWoo

ShelbyWoo — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 18:31:48 +0000

@WorkingMom: How, exactly, are your comments any less offensive than Free Peaches’s? Couldn’t you have addressed your concerns with her/his comment without insulting childless working women in the process?

It’s incredibly counterproductive to make this an in-fight between working women with children and working women without children, when, in fact, this affects ALL workers.

By: Alara Rogers

Alara Rogers — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 17:05:29 +0000

*Anyone* who is involved in caretaking runs the risk of not being there in the office. My boss, a childfree woman, has a mother with Alzheimers who recently took a nasty fall, and she’s had to be out of the office multiple times recently to take her mother to doctors’ appointments.

But this is a woman who spent a year or two working until 10 pm every night, so I’m pretty sure the company got their money’s worth out of her before this happened. And she works from home all the time to make up time she missed. I’m sure there are many working mothers who do the same.

The real problem is that “mother” is defined as “primary caretaker of child” and “non-mother”, whether father or childfree human of either sex, is defined as “unencumbered.” If I had no kids I would be encumbered by the fact that my husband is legally blind, which restricts the hours I can work in an office because he relies on me for transportation. At the company I’m working for, men who are fathers of young children take as much time off as mothers do. If the corporate perception is that *only* mothers will take time off work, they may not notice the fathers and the people with parents who need care doing it… or those people may feel profoundly uncomfortable about taking the time they need.

When I interviewed for the recruiting agency that got me this job, I never mentioned having children at all… although the job I got was actually working for a woman who used to be my supervisor at an old job, so she knew I had kids and wanted to hire me anyway. :-)

By: UnhingedHips

UnhingedHips — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 16:44:28 +0000

In complete honesty, the sound of doors slamming shut all around me after I had my child (while they stayed open for my partner) is what woke me up to feminism.

The difference in my percieved status and my life opportunities was unmistakable, and no, it wasn’t an improvement.

By: CircuitSplit

CircuitSplit — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 15:25:14 +0000

Did someone forget to teach Working Mom about the birds and the bees? She seems to think that children magically appear when one is married, and the only people without kids are single. Add to that the offensive stereotype that all single people are out drinking and sleeping around, and you have one offensive package.

Perhaps that is how you lived your life before children, but it is not in any way an accurate picture of the childfree. I have never had a hangover or a one-night stand, and I’ve been with my husband for thirteen years. As for my ability to come and go as a please – well, that is determined by my work and caseload, but is otherwise accurate. I have no children to make demands on my time, and when I am not needed at work I do love a good weekend away.

If you think that makes me a lesser worker, you have a serious logic fail. But in all honesty, it just sounds like envy.

By: Emma

Emma — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 14:54:29 +0000

“Survey research finds that mothers suffer a substantial wage penalty, although the causal mechanism producing it remains elusive.”

Does the reason matter?

Most employers look at the bottom line and will hire the candidate they feel will be the most productive and most beneficial to the company. If they aren’t hiring mothers, or are offering them less money when they do, is it because they’ve had negative experiences in the past with regard to the productivity/work product of mothers v. childfree women? Or have they just had negative experiences with women who mention in their résumés that they are mothers? Or have they just had negative experiences with women who have been involved in the PTA in the past?

If their past experiences had been that mothers (or women involved in the PTA) were the best employees, wouldn’t they jump at the chance to hire more of them and pay them top dollar?

I think the “causal mechanism” is very important.

By: Working Mom

Working Mom — Wed, 10 Jun 2009 11:56:40 +0000

To fresh peaches – as a working mother of 2 I am highly offened of your statement and even more so about the however. I am in the top 7 individuals in my agency on performance rating in a company of over 200. I pride my self on being a professional and being a mother.

Research also shows that working mothers, produce more in shorter amounts of time then their counter parts, call in sick less as they keep their sick time for when their child gets sick and can work from home if possible when that does occur.

If the above is your asumption of all mothers – then you actually never give them a chance to “prove” themselves as an employee. As when we do take a personal call to check on their child at day care, or they do have to take a sick day or personal day, it is watched and scrutinized more than a working non mom – who might call in sick because they are hung over or becasue the want to take a trip to vegas. The bottom line is not that “they” have a bottom line to meet. The bottom line is that you hold working mothers at a higher standard because they are working mothers and you automaticly expect less from them so you judge every move they make and don’t recognize what productive members of your company working mothers are. Working mothers have the uncanny ablity to multi task, handle stressful situation with grace and ease, and don’t deal with any bull.

And by the way just like you don’t like hearing about our kids I don’t like to listen to your one night stands, weekends away, and endless ablity to come and go as you please.